Re: Update!
 

I went to BPS in Katy TX and talked to them about being concerned that someone was "patching up my boat" in Arkansas. I ask them what they (Tracker) had to say about all the issues that I am concerned about too.

I was un-offically told to call Tracker and tell them what I had expressed to them (BPS Katy). So I did....I also found out that the only thing in my file was about the cracked transom. There was no mention of the cracked T-Top, cracked drain under console or the cracked bulk head. I also e-mailed them my pictures of the cracked bulk head.

My file now shows everything and it's been forwarded to the proper people with Tracker.

I also got the phone number for the shop in Arkansas that the boat will be shipped to. I plan to call them too while the boat is in route.

I also found out that my boat was one of the last boats built before Tracker bought SeaCraft. What luck My Robalo was one of the first ones built when the new company took over.

If I ever buy a boat again....the first thing I'm going to ask is; Who built it and when did the company change hands!

Re: Update!
 

Captn C - did a Tracker/BPS employee tell you this? Tracker has owned SeaCraft since 1987 [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

Re: Update!
 

Humm, she must have said when Bass Pro Shop took over.

I was busy thinking "OH crap not again!"

I sure thought that was what she said though, thanks for getting me straight on that.

Re: Update!
 

I called the fiberglass shop in Arkansas yesterday to see what his estimate was what repairs they covered. His estimate was for the transom only. They never told him about the cracked drain, the cracked bulk head, the cracked T-Top or that I felt the hull flexed more than I feel it should. He was very surprised!

His enthusiasm was passionate to try to repair the hull when I first started talking to him on the phone. I felt he was ready to repair the Titanic if they dropped it by. After several minutes though I think he began to realize it would be a risky/expensive task to attempt. He said it could cost $30,000 dollars to repair depending on what all is wrong.

I e-mailed the same letter and my photos to him also. So now everyone has a copy.

New Update!
 

Well, now it's going to go to Greenrich TN. Tommy's Boat Works. After Tracker had all the "proper" information on the boat they have decided it would be too much for the guy in Arkansas. They are very persistent that are going to "fix" this boat. I have not demanded a new hull, YET. Not sure if that's the right call yet?!?!?

Looks like I will be calling Tennessee now to to make they know have all the facts.

Re: New Update!
 

Hmmm - beginning to sound like Tracker has been bought by Angler...

Wonder is Seacraft watches stuff like this thread - or even cares

Re: Update!
 

[quote
Captn C - did a Tracker/BPS employee tell you this? Tracker has owned SeaCraft since 1987 [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

[/QUOTE]

Looks like we both were right?!?!? Well your right and I was kinda right.

I've learned; The guy who originally started Tracker bought SeaCraft in 1987, but didn't roll them into one copmpany until 1999.

The Hits Just Keep On Coming!
 

I went by Bass Pro Shop...again...this time I pumped all the fuel out of the tank (100+ gallons), pulled the props and the batteries. While I was in the console I noticed another small crack about 2" long, then one about 1". The more I looked the more I found. The forward starboard corner has a large crack that is completely broken into and now the edges over lap.

I was out in there boat "pen" so I jumped on the phone and called their shop and ask the shop foreman to bring the camera out. He came out with asst. manager and the asst. manager took a the pictures. As we went over them...I noticed a photo of a crack I didn't recognize and ask about where it was. Below the smalest crack was another nasty crack.

After the photos were taken the asst. manager started talking about how soft the deck was behind the console. I was standing there listening to him when he started jumping up and down. I noticed the floor flexed some, but he pointed put how much movement there was in the leaning post. OH YES that thing was flopping all over the place..T-Top too....He then stepped over the aft bulk head and jumped there too. The leaning post again swayed forward and backward. He was a good 6 to 8 feet behind the leaning post.

I hope to have the photo's today and I'll try to post them. I am also going to talk to Tracker again, I think it's time to start talking about a new hull. I was going to wait till they had "their" people look at it, but I feel now may be the time.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Wow .... Time for the new hull and an Attorney to shake em up a bit ......... Who knows what else is going on under that deck !!!! Sounds like it could be a source for your original complaint "shards of plastic in the bilge area" who knows what’s busted up under there.....

Removing the fuel and other items ….they getting ready to ship her away ??

Capt C ...you are a patient man .....I don’t think I could be in this case…. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Hey Capn C, In addition to a new hull they ought to also fork up for some pain and suffering not counting the number of charters etc, that this debacle has cost you. Good luck to you, hope you are back on the pond soon !!!

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

SSSSShhhhheeeeeeettttt!!! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] It's time for the lawyer. Those guys have shuffled you around way too long Capt. SeaCraft needs to DO THE RIGHT THING and quit jerking around and replace the hull under the warrenty and write off the loss with making a 23'donation to the artificial reef program [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

PS Remove the word little from the subject line of this thread [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

There is no "they" in getting her ready to ship...It's been me!

LOL "Patient" that word has not been used very often when referring to me. The reason I'm getting it ready to ship is because I'm too impatient.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I have been lurking and now it's time for me to throw my hat in the ring. I simply CANNOT believe the quality of this boat. Do we here on the board really think Captain C's 25 is the ONLY boat out there with manufacturing problems? Does the current owner of SeaCraft even care about quality and workmanship. I am embarrased for Mr. Mosley and Mr. Potter for coming up with such a great product, building a reputation for boats that last 30+ years and then having Tracker basterdize their product. Look at their product quality-This is not the first time a 23 or 25 has had MAJOR structural problems! Check out some threads on thehulltruth.com


[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]You are not the only one. I bought a 2003 Seacraft 23' early this summer. Used it several times without issue. Went on a camping trip for a long weekend and took the boat. This was the fist time it sat in the watter more than 8 hours. After the long weekend I put the boat on my trailer. Get back to the camp ground to finish packing evrything up and notice alot of water coming from the boat. I start poking around and fina a 1/8 inch hole drilled into the bottom of the boat from which the water is draining.

The water continued to drain in a steady stream for almost a full day, and driped on my dealers showroom floor for the next week. It turns out that some idiot in the Miami factory drilled a pilot hole for a thru-hull fitting and realied that it went through to the stringer so he redrilled someplace else. Well this genius forgot to go back and fill the hole, had he done so there would have been no issue. The long and the shor of it is that aprox. 60-80 gallons of water was forced up into the fiberglass stringers.

Upon finding this out I drafted a nice letter to the dealer and Seacraft revoking acceptance of the boat and demainding a full refund or a replacement hull. My dealer treated me top notch and after going through the typical buracradic crap you have with a corporation I was given a new hull, to which all the option my first hull had were fitted. Seacraft was very helpful and handled this in a very professional manner, I have to commend them. They have earned a happy and probaly a repeat customer.

Will they be as kind to you, I can't say. I was helped by the fact that I am an attorney and just happen to specialze in Admiralty and litigation.

[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]I did sea trial a 25 (either a '99 or '00). I'll only mention the construction issues that I saw, since thats what you're having a problem with. The livewell was cracked and leaking, plumbing to the livewell was leaking and rust spots under the clamps, the console door broke a hinge when I opened it, the hull had a hollow "ringing" sound to it in very calm swells

Capt. C. Spend the $$$$$$$$$$ see an attorney! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Captn C - this is seriouslyt spiraling out of control. You should REALLY talk to a lawyer that handles this kind of stuff. You may need to pay a well-respected and certified surveyor to go thru this with a fine toothed comb and document and photograph and photograph and document extensively. Based on all of this, you should ask for and get an entirely new hull, deck, cap. Insist on it. There is no way that giving you a new hull and reusing the old deck and cap will satisfy reasonable repairs for your boat - you are well beyond that point.

I assume that everything you are finding here is legit, you MUST document it to the nth degree as you need essentially a new boat to have a safe vessel for your clients (assuming you're a guide).

It would also be smart for Seacraft to realize that some of the dealers tell people to check out this site. A site that caters to and supports the Seacraft name & heritage - espeicially with the older gals that many of us have.

Tabman - i think you need a new job - want to take over the Seacraft division - they need someone that will get things right the first time and follow up expediently when a problem needs to be resolved after the fact...

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

John R,
I agree, but they are planning to "look" at the boat. At this time I don't think bringing in a lawyer would do much more than put them in a defensive posture. If they tell me they plan to fix the boat after their expert looks at it then thats what I plan to do. Right now I have open line of communication with Tracker and doubt I will after the lawyer calls them. I'll give them a chance to "do the right thing".

Here are the latest pictures I found last week;

[image]http://www.theboatzone.com/gallery/album05/2_19_04_Starboard_frt_UC[/image]

This is the Starboard front coner of the well under the center console.

[image]http://www.theboatzone.com/gallery/album05/2_19_04Starboard_rr_UC[/image]

Also on the starbosrd side just behind the batteries.

[image]http://www.theboatzone.com/gallery/album05/2_19_04Port_UC[/image]

This on the shelf were the port battery sits.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Capt C, Any updates on this situation?

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

NO it's still sitting at Bass Pro Shop. I e-mailed them today with some more crack (new cracks) photos I took yesterday and ask them when the truck was to be here to pick it up. No word back from them yet.

I have also consulted a Martitime Litigator (that sure looks misspelled) and I sent him what I have, less the lastest photos. He said I was in great shape and need to wait to see what they say.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

FINALLY!

They told me this morning the boat is to be picked up tomorrow (3-10-04).

I have also started a little project with a digital video camera. I have made a documentary of the cracks and failures on my boat. I have made arrangements to have it placed on a server, so I can do some free adertising for SeaCraft if they don't do me right. Of course every time I get close to the boat with a camera I find more cracks. The little camera I was using has some sort of night vision and I was able to look around between the fuel tank and the deck. I found where the deck has come loose from the hull on both sides.....cracks around the screws (4) that hold the rear bulk head to the deck cap....cracks on each side of the gunnel cap where it meets the rear bulk head.

They should be happy to keep me away from it. I would have missed a bunch of these if they had picked the boat up in a timely manner.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

what year is this boat????

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

1999

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I thought I had already done this....I got "the" phone call this afternoon. They want to repair the hull, not replace it. They said they would rather spend a bunch of money repairing it than replacing it.

The shop that looked at it said it would be no problem to repair! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

call your lawyer pronto....

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

The shop that looked at it is salivating over the hours of warranty work. Call your lawyer - you need a new hull.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Capt-

I just went by one of our local dealers here in Rhode Island, actualy a Mako dealer but they are one in the same these days, and I thought I saw your boat........

There was a (1999-2002)Yellow 25 sitting in the yard being 100% stipped. I am talking everything is ripped out of the boat, Console, t-top, leaning post, motors, everything.

This has to be one of two things.

1- it sunk and this is a bizare ins. settlement.

2- the boat has the same issues as yours.........

if it is the latter I am guessing SeaCraft agreed to replace the hull. From everything you have told use they better replace yours as well......

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

You didn't happen to see the name on the boat did you?

I have not heard from Tracker since Monday and the last word I heard was they are "evaluating my boat". If you happen by there in the next day or so could you check if it's my boat? Shouldn't be too many REEL GAMBLER's around!

I chose that name because I didn't trust the engines....never thought the hull would be this rigs undoing.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I just drove by this boat (I work 2 miles away), would have liked to eyeball it but between limties time and the wind reiven snow [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] ...

The boat has a RI reg on it so it's not this hull in question. But like Trayder said - it's a stripped 25. And it's not that pretty to begin with. The gelcote doesn't look as bright as you'd expect (even in a snow storm).

One of these days I'll swing by and eyeball it...

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Capt-

I did not think the boat was yours just thought it odd or perhaps frightening that the same model, year, and even color boat was in my neck of the wood with what looks to be major issues......

Maybe John R can stop by on his way back from work. I would do it myself but I am unable to do so.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

OK, I was going to start chewing butt Monday if it was mine. I really don't like the fact that they are keeping me from contacting whoever has the boat....Just for reasons like this...they could move it and I not know about it. Not that I would care if they moved it, but I would want to know why the other guy wouldn't work on it..ya know what I mean.

I am going to ask them what thee scoop is on that boat though.

What is the name of that Mako place?

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Sorry, this threads driven me nutz...get your attorney involved and start demanding what your entitled to, make sure you establish a paper trail with these clowns...document every conversation you have...Sounds like your boat could be stripped down and layin in pieces in some dealers lot in Rhode Island or elsewhere and they won't even tell you whether it is or isn't? [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] I would at least insist on an inspection after the repair and BEFORE they close her up by a surveyor, what do they have to hide????

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Again - the boat in RI is NOT his boat - it has a Rhode Island reg #. Still curious whats wrong with it...

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

John R It would be great if you could stop by the dealer where the '25 is and get the low down! Maybe even the pix. Better yet, find out who the owner is and have Cap.C call him. Wonder if the owner hired an atty?

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

The 25 that is here in Rhode Island was an insurance claim. The boat sank at the dock in a 50KT gale last November. They stripped it and are going to replace everything. Going to be repowered with twin Yamaha F150's, it should be quite the rig. I did look it over the best i could and found no major issues. There was however cracking at the transom but that is not out of the ordanary considering the boat slammed against a dock submerged during a storm..

Again the boat in RI does not have the same issues as Captn C's boat.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

So has a lawyer advised you not to talk about this situation until its resolved, or has nothing happened?

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

A little of both. I really don't have any recourse until they don't fix everything or it breaks again. They told me two 1/2 weeks ago it would ready in two 1/2 weeks, but I was told yesterday they just sent gel-coat to them in Tennessee and that didn't have a completion date yet. They also said they just approved the estimate on the repairs, so I don't think they have started on it yet. I hope they have at least opened it up. I have requested Tracker send the repair shop a list I made of the crack issues for them to list the process in which they plan to resolve each one. They have rejected that request and had offered to send me a copy of the estimate. I requested it yesterday because he said they had it in hand, but they have yet to reply to that request.

I have told them if it returns with any unresolved issues that they shouldn't even bother to un-hook it from the delivery truck, because it is going back. They said everything we've talked about will be taken care of. They just are reluctant to prove it.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Wow! brings back old memories!
in 1989 I bought a 23' tracker seacraft,while I was rigging it out for tuna fishing putting pumps in the bilge and all kinds of other things I noticed that when I drilled a hole in the transom water came out.Not good for a boat that had never even been in the water .This was february so I contacted Tracker who told me to use the boat for the season and then send it to them. I did. Well ,as you know Tracker was going to stop building the Seacraft at this time so they told me they would fix the boat rather than replace it.but then they found stringer problems also and that changed everything.at this point they offered to buy the boat back and pay all my expenses,and labor costs.this worked out very well for me,I made out in the end.
As far as yours goes,why is Tracker getting involved is'nt Seacraft a company on their own now?
Whatever happens I wish you luck,hopefully my story will give you some peace of mind in the outcome.Be Persistant and do all correspondence by registered mail also keep copies of everything.
Good luck.Steve

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I think the most telling statement that I have heard on this topic was made by the guy that is completely redoing my 1971 when he was describing the current crop of new SeaCrafts, some of which he has worked on: "in thiry years, nobody will go to the trouble to have these things rebuilt like they are willing to do with the Potter boats...they'll just drive them to the local landfill".

I don't say this to disparage the new boats, many of which I have had a great time on. Merely pointing out that the older hulls have a cache that the new ones can't seem to acquire.

-Oh, and to respond to the question by Tuneafish as to why Tracker is getting involved....they OWN SeaCraft these days along with all the glitter-paint boats you see at Bass Pro Shops. Johnny Morris owns quite a number of boat lines, and they are all under the Tracker Marine umbrella.

Get ready for this!
 

I got a letter yesterday afternoon from Tracker....I have been asking them over and over "when does the warranty run out on my boat?".....Well I got an answer yesterday....

There is NO warranty after the boat is sold by the original owner!

Tracker nor Bass Pro Shop knew that!?!? Neither did I but they should have. They said they are going to repair the boat out of the kindness of there heart and becasue they want everyone to know how they stand behind there product...blab..bla. I do still have warranty coverage though my extended warranty, but I guess they forgot that when they sent the letter. PLUS the fact I paid BPS to check the boat over and they didn't act on the cracks before I bought the boat.

Any way they still have not told me when the boat will be ready. I'll be e-mailing them this morning.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

The problem with Sea Craft is Bass Pro Shops !I have been to the plant in Florida. Remember ....they build Mako and seacraft side by side.....the difference being Seacraft uses no wood and Mako does. I was told that they build 80% Mako's and 20% Seacraft. So lets say they need a Seacraft Hull...they pull 4 or 5 guys off the mako line to build a seacraft. In florida they had a big problem with the work force.....Non english speaking......and a big turn over of managers. Need I say more......Johnny Morris should sell off the Seacraft co build his Mako's and sell fishing Tackle. Johnny you bought the company because of the "NAME" Seacraft, trust me its far from it....

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Captain C-

Keep on top of them and as soon as that boat is fixed, maybe you should think about quietly selling it. I know that is probably not what you want to hear, but it sounds like these problems may continue.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Well we are getting closer to a resolution. I got an e-mail today that they will be putting the engines back on tomorrow. Then they are going to send it to a welding shop to have all of the welds on the T-Top re-done...surprised...I have never said anything about the T-Top other than I had to have it fixed.

There is a possibility I may get it back next week.