Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Warthog,
Could you elaborate on your tx ducer install? I am not sure I understand how you did it. :D

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Warthog-

I am with Hemco on this one.....Huh? And what is wrong with the way Chuck did it? It looks like you two did the same thing except you made a seperate piece and then glassed it in place.

I am guessing so you could change the transducer out?

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Yes I cut a hole in the boat,the same as Chuck. but I built strength back into the hull with the custom box that hold's the X-ducer.
I'm sure the 2 diffrent install's could be debated until the cow's come home.
In these pix's you will see next, you will not see a lot of glass. That's because I had my hand's full and didn't get all the pix's I should have. I assure you that the glass is there. I usually put a skim coat of fairing putty over to of my glass work while it's still green so I'm not sand on the glass I just installed.

In this pix you see the plaster mold I made. I used the large fairing block to make this mold.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/P1010213.jpg

Here is the mold with the stem hole cut in it. The dimple in the mold helped to get it just right.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/P1010221.jpg

Here the box was installed in the boat with an every so slight tilt to get better clean water to run across the face of the X-ducer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/P1010241.jpg

Fillet's of epoxy bonding puddy were run on the inside of the hull and the outside.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/P1010242.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/P1010244.jpg

More glass was added to the inside and the outside to strengthen and build the outside of the hull up to have a smooth transition.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/P1010246.jpg

Fairing putty was added to the outside after the glass was laid.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/P1010250.jpg

My boat has a inner linner in the ass end. The pice of the linner was reinstalled, glassed in and wiped with fairing puddy,

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/P1010247.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/P1010252.jpg

No this was not a 2 beer job. :) But it made the hull as strong or stronger where a big hole was cut thru it.

One of the tech's at Airmar told me I could sell those box's. there is a small demand for them.

Here the fairing work on the outside has been primed and blocked.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...nsducer001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...nsducer002.jpg

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Warthog - I take it that is a 1K tx-ducer and that is why you did not use the B-60? Or is there another reason?

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Warthog,
It seems to me you achieved what Capt. Chuck did. He just used the transducer itself for the mold or "box" and that is how I have been installing them for 20 plus years. Cut the hole thru the hull as close as a fit as possible,grind the area around the cut out,wipe the area with acetone,insert the transducer and secure with some type of putty making sure that it protrudes from the bottom about 1/8" to 1/4",glass over with alternating mats and biax or woven rovings etc. run the nut down to seat on the glass you have laid,then go to the bottom and run a bead of 5200 or gelcoat putty around the tx ducer,you do not need to do all of the fairing of the bottom that you did on yours. I have installed hundreds this way and have gotten consistently good bottom reads at speeds of over 40 mph depending on the boats hull type and transducer location without a single failure or problem for over 20 years. Just my two cents worth! :D

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Thank's Don. When I did this one there was no one I personally knew that did it. I've seen some done that were botched.

I knew from in the past of messing with transom mount's that they liked a slight foward tilt, so that why I tilted the box ever so slightly. I also knew that it had to be right on this one shot deal.
I just did it the way I throught was best.

Jack, Yes it's a B-260. It's hooked to a 582L Furuno. got to be able to see dem' snapper's. :)

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Warthog,
Correct me if I am seeing this wrong but it seems to me that you did in fact do a thruhull X-ducer like that,you ended up with what Capt. Chuck did,probably took a few more beers tho. :cool:

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Well maybe I'm misinterpreting this pix? It look's to me as through there is a bunch of glass piled up on the side's of the X-ducer and maybe just a little over the top of it.

this one would have to be cut out of the boat, not that that's a big deal. It just doesn't look as stable as the box I've built and the aditional glass to put strength back into the bottom of the boat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...glassed_in.jpg

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

What I see by looking at what I will call Labatt beer #1 on the left and following down to the transducer is that there is indeed glass over the top. I do not however see the nut fastened down like I would like. Maybe the pic shows the job in progress? There are clearly two beers in the pic. Perhaps Capt. Chuck could clarify this. Was this in fact a three beer job?
:o

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

HeHe http://bestsmileys.com/friendly/4.gif

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

I did it the way Hermco and the Labatts beer boat did it, just made sure to overlay 3 layers of 1808 after adding some fillets to all sides of the 'ducer sticking up in the bilge. My boat was one the lift though, and the looks I got when I took a hole saw and cut a perfectly good hole in the bottom of a boat sitting over water were priceless....did it that way on the Bertram for 2 'ducers, but it took a stronger saw to cut through that beast....Warthog's solution is well engineered, fo sure.

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

The previous owner of my project boat did this with his transducer . . . he had the ducer recessed into a block of wood that was glassed to the hull. http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...9/P1010154.jpg

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

I really didn't see any need for the nut, but as usual I leave my nuts off all the time... [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
Yeah buddy! 3 beers and then some.
Tom: There is plenty of 1808 up the sides and over the top. During the transom redo the bilge was gelcoated clean..That TX ain't going anywhere !

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Believe it or not I once met a guy when I was over at Bimini who had his tx ducer sucked out the bottom and the boat allmost sank because he had no nut! :eek:

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

OK - after some debate and good information about transducer installation I have ordered a 20 degree B-60.
This will work well in my application and will be easy to install (I hope).

FWIW - I see Furuno has 2 new units out- the FCV-585 (replacement for the 582L) AND the FCV-620 (replacement for the 600L). THAT FIGURES!!!!! And to top that off they have a $100 mail in rebate on the old units.

Now a few more pics -

I have decided that a good tool to use in the bottom of the transom, especially if the original wood is in good shape is a die grinder with a straight carbide tip router bit.

A lot of this original wood is so hard that the carbide tip blade sits and smokes (brand new tip) trying to cut it out. Whew!!! I also fab'd a homemade adze that works good in the softer spots. As mentioned many times before this has gotta be the worst part of the project.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...k/IMGP0437.jpg


Finally seeing some red. I feel like King Kong’s dentist.
Even thought there is good (hard/dry) wood up 2-3 inches from the bottom (as mentioned earlier) there are voids and soft spots at the very bottom of the transom.

This pic is looking straight down into the cut out transom -

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...k/IMGP0439.jpg


AND - Santa (I mean UPS) made a delivery today. My RAKA shipment -

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...k/IMGP0440.jpg

I might have to stay up late and mix up some test batches..

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

jack, I'd suggest you do some testing on the pump's too. use measured container's to see if they are pumping correctly. Pump's are known to be off and therefore I don't use them. I measure everything.

Alway's remember to short stroke the pump's to get them primed first without letting any epoxy come out of the discharge. Then make full stroke's when your ready to mix.

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

FishJack - you might be all done digging out the trench by now, but, from doing mine, a) it's the worst part of the job, and b) I had pretty good success, using a grinder like you showed, getting down to the bottom in one spot, and then, using a wide bladed wood chisel, knocking slices off, working my way out from the grinder digout, kind of like taking slices off the end of a stick of butter - even still, that part alone was about three nights of arm busting chisel work.

I'm sure you already know this, but before glassing anything back in, -surface prep, surface prep, surface prep-sanding and acetone wipes - critical to good adhesion.

keep the pix coming !!!

Bill

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Nice progress your making. Did you give any thought to recoring the transom from the inside, or maybe closing the transom in and adding a bracket?

Your doing a good job, if your worried about drilling a hole in your hull for the transducer, you may want to look towards a shoot through hull transducer.

What Epoxy are you using?

What to do about the HIN????
 

Another question - What to do about the HIN?? It (as of now) is going to end up in the bevel area for the fiberglass lay-up on the outside of the transom.. :D

Warthog - I will check the pumps and plan on using a scale as well.. Thanks.

oldbluesplayer - That is what I am using my homemade adze for. Cut loose with a wood chisel then pull the chunk out with the adze. This process became possible (as you mentioned) after I finally got to the bottom of the transom and could get some tools in there to work with..
Thanks for the prep reminder - It seems like it would be easy to get in a hurry and skimp on the prep steps..

Gradysailfish - I guess my transom is now an inside/outside job now that I have access to the inside.

My choice for epoxy was RAKA - www.raka.com
Using 1708 Biax cloth.

Re: What to do about the HIN????
 

Check the Raka instruction's.

I use measured cup's of diffrent size's.

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

FJ,
Did you get all the wood out yet? I had to sharpen the electric chain saw a couple times, because the resin in the plywood, and scraping along on the fiberglass had a tendency to dull it over time, but it did the trick for me for ALL the wood removal. Clear to the bottom, and with a little side pressure, it cleaned off nearly ALL traces of wood from the transom skins also. :o

Sounds like you're keeping the project rolling along nicely... Enjoy reading your posts ;)

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

HIN- get some tin and some stamping letters/numbers and then imprint your HIN into the tin. Flip the now imprinted tin upsidedown and lay some gel-coat/or resin then some mat 2- 3 layers. You will now have a section you can laminate into your transom and it will look factory.

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

ob1jeeper - she is just about cleaned out now.... Thanks..

The plywood in my hull had a bunch of staples in it that gave all my tools a hard time..

I have not seen anyone mention the staples in the original wood??? But when you hit them you know it....

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

FJ,
I had forgotten about the staples :o While most of the ones I hit were rather rusted, there were quite a few which were solid as well. They obviously don't help with keeping acceptable blade sharpness either :D ;)

Lookin' Good :) ;)

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

thanks Jason, thats a good one! I learn something every day...

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Tom-

I can not take credit for coming up with the technique, I learned it from Mike @ Wildfire

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

The old transom wood is 100% out.. Finally!
Down to bare clean fiberglass all the way around the edges.

Another quick question - I plan on extending my stringers up the back of the hull a bit and glassing them in - What type of wood should I use as a core for this? Should I laminate two pieces of 1/2" or 3/4" ply?

Also - is there any certain type of plastic sheeting - other than peal ply - that will work to keep clamping devices from sticking to the curing epoxy? I remember someone talking about this on another post and cannot seem to find the info.
Thanks

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

FishJack -

I never mentioned it in my rebuild, but I ran across small brads in the transom plywood, guess they were there to hold the two sheets together thru the build process.

As to your questions, above, I made up my knee out of plywood, used both 5/8 and 1/2 to get what I wanted, 3 pieces in total. After cutting them to shape, I epoxied them together, leaving the outside dry, and clamped them up to cure. Later, when installing, I used wax paper as a release paper, with another piec of 1 by pine, or a piece of 1/2 ply as an external clamper. I had put one layer of glass on the pre-built knee, before installing, and then several more layers of glass over the knee and onto the transom / hull, after installing - there's some pix in my rebuild, way back on about page 10 or so now.

hope that helps some

Bill

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Thanks Bill - This brings up another question -

I might be running low on marine ply by the time I get ready to fab some misc. deck braces and knees - Is there any other type of ply that is accepable that I can pick-up at Lowe's or HomeDepot?

OR is marine ply what I should stick with for the entire project (knees and other deck support pieces)??

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Regular 2,3 or 4mill visqueen will come off no problem after it has set up. Don't try and pull it while it's still green. The same goes for peel ply.

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

FJ - would rather stick with the marine ply, but for stuff your going to encapsulate in glass, at least the way I envision doing knees, for instance, then exterior ply ought to be satisfactory.

Bill

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Thanks Bobby - I "thought" visqueen might work..

Bill - I plan on having enough marine ply but I was hoping ext ply would suffice.

Thanks guys..

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

That will give you another excuse to come hang out some more in P'cola.http://bestsmileys.com/big/1.gif

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

OK as mentioned all the wood is OUT - still have some cleaning to do..
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...k/IMGP0459.jpg

Well this project (thanks to you guys) started out as "I'm going to replace the transom" well now it has turned into a little more than that.

Today I pulled out the "self bailing" deck drains - both were in bad shape I plan on going back with the original configuration for now.. Should I use 5200 or 4200 - I know 4200 bonds with metal better??

Anyway - Today I also decided to pull the fuel tank out while I had easy access to check it out - after all it's only about 30 years old and this is what I found.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...k/IMGP0460.jpg

I managed to slide the old tank out the rear without removing the t-top.. I wish it were as easy as it sounds...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...k/IMGP0461.jpg

The infamous rubber strip corrosion...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...k/IMGP0468.jpg

Soooooooooo... I guess it's new tank time - this one is
12H/28W/69L / 100 gallon ..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...k/IMGP0471.jpg

There is wasted space in front of the tank - I was debating on installing a fresh water tank there OR going with a longer fuel cell for more fuel capacity..

I guess it's time to start re-reading the fuel tank threads..

Tomorrow I will be pulling up the old fuel tank support and HOPEFULLY starting to play with some epoxy resin..

Again - do I need marine ply for the fuel tank base?? Man I wish I could find marine ply here locally. I'm sure it would be best..

I really apprecite the comments and feedback..

I'll try and get some pics of the trash can full of empty beer bottles tomorrow.. THERE STACKING UP..
Jack

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Fish jack-

The bottom of my fuel tank looked like yours were the rubber was. As for marine ply for the fuel tank support you really dont need if you use high quality plywood it will work just as good. However I would use 1808 biaxial to cover the top side and bottom side epoxied to the plywood. Router the edges facing the bow and stern so you can wrap the fiberglass over the exposed edges and that will last another 30 years. Anoter option is to go with a composite such as cosa and that would be first class. while you have your boat gutted and exposed you may want to check out those battery boxes (flat surfaces on either side just behind the gas tank) they were rotton in my boat. That is one of the only places you will find wood in your seacraft besides your transom and hatch coring. Keep up the great work.

Battery Boxes: http://www.casdvm.com/photos/SeaCraf...ttery%20boxes/

strick

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Your 100 gal fuel tank was standard. SeaCraft offered 150 gal option. When I reinstalled a new tank, I installed a 135 gal. I still had room for approx 12 gal fresh water between the front of the tank and the back of the forward deck hold bulkhead. I used a bladder tank with an inspection/access hatch thru the deck hold bulkhead.

It sure comes in handy :cool:

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Thanks Strick -

I went with - due to time frame and availability - the highest grade exterior ply I could find. I am planning on laying biax (1708) on both sides as you suggested.

Where did you find the plastic strips for the tank support? I have been looking around and cannot seem to find any.

I am going to get a larger fuel tank (96L vs. the original 69L) and thinking about moving it further forward for more weight in the front of the boat like others here have done.

I remember seeing your pics while doing my research of the battery boxes.. my batteries are in my center console but I will sill look into the built in boxes. I guess I should just drill some exploratory holes correct?

Thanks again for the advise.

FWIW – my price range so far on a new tank – 96Lx29Wx12H are from $1200.00 to $700.00. The $1200.00 unit is epoxy coated. These prices do not include shipping…

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Capt Chuck - you replied while I was responding to Strick's post...

I was wanting to install a fresh water tank but was not sure how to secure it or plumb it?? I guess I need to do some research on that as well.

How do you secure a bladder tank.. That sounds like it may be the way to go.

Thanks,
Jack

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Jack

I first glassed in a flat floor section (like the fuel tank floor) The bladder tank has (4) loops, one on each corner. I secured two bottom ones to the floor and two top to the underside of the deck. Now secured the tank is verticle vs lying flat. The bladder tank will conform to the space you have. The fill tube comes up thru deck within the consoles forward seat out the side. The outflow is up thru the deck into the console along with the pump. I used the 13 gal bladder tank for $59

Here is a link to the tank I used ;)

Bladder Tank

Re: Yet Another Transom Job in the Works - ?ions
 

Jack,
Where are you getting the tank made? i.e. quotes?
Local..?
Chris.. :cool: