Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick, its great to see some more progress from you.
The boat is lookin great. I understand how slow it can go. I am doing the same thing to my 71 20' and things always interupt me from working on it.
Its interesting to compare yours to mine. For some reason, there was absolutly no foam in mine. I have yet to see one on this board with no foam except for mine.
I do have a couple questions on the build up of your transom...do you think that only 2 layers of 1708 is enough? I was working on mine this weekend, and was able to get the cabosil mixture under and around the wood, and I also laid up one sheet of 1708 on it. I was thinking of doing 2 layers of 1708, then 2 more of a 6oz cloth or something like that. Do you think this is overkill?
What do you plan on doing with the floor? Are you going to reuse the old floor? If so, what are your going to do with the diamond pattern on it? I would like to reuse my floor, but there are many parts of the floor that iether have chips or scrathces in the diamond pattern, and it would just be a pain in the butt to fix it.
Once again, great progress and i look forward to seeing more great work.

-Andrew

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Andrew-

Interesting that there was no foam. They just poured foam in my boat kinda in a random manner I'm guessing just to meet coast guard requirements?

An ex boat builder once told me that standard lay up or a transom going from outside to inside the transom consisted of 3/8 inch thick outerlayer glass, 1 1/2 inch core material (plywood, coosa, whatever) then 1/4 inch inner layer of glass. Each layer of 1708 will give you about 1/16 inch thickness. That being said I'm only putting the 1 layer of 1708 and the woven roving. The corners of the transom and around the stringers will get beefed up with 3-4 layers. The transom on my boat had 1 layer of woven roving and matt and it lasted 37 years. As for the floor, I'm planning on re using the skin and for simplicity I will probably go with a new plywood core. I will fix the cracks in the skin but I'll have to see how that goes once I dive into it. It is going to be a big PITA to fix. Hope some of this helps.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

The laminate should be equal on both sides of the core for maximum strength. :D

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I wont argue with that Hermco. Progress has been slow for various reasons, work, kids, fishing and not excluding my lacking in motivation. At any rate I'll show what little I have completed in the last week.

I took some left over 5/8" core cell that I had laying around and ripped some 2" strips. Note the SeaCrafts in the background.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5339.JPG

I beveled the top edge to meet with the same plane as the top of the stringers and the bottom edge just has a 45 angle on it so the glass will roll over it easy. These strips will get laminated to the side of the hull and the edge of the floor will rest on them. I then took some 5 minute epoxy and ran a line the length of the piece. I used a level on top of the stringers and drew a mark were the top of the core cell should be and then glued them to the side of the hull. I cut some sticks to help wedge the piece to the hull while the 5 minute epoxy dried. It took longer then 5 minutes so I'm planning to write a letter to the company.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5340.JPG
http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5342.JPG

I also cut some pieces of 1708 so I could tab the stringers to the transom.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5345.JPG
http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5347.JPG

Here is a shot of the floor support laminated tot he side of the hull and stringers tabbed in place.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5349.JPG

I will have to do the same thing for the upper deck but I'm going to have to do a test fit to see were the deck sits so I can get my mark for the core cell.

Till next time.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I decided that instead of coring the underside of the gunnel cap all the way around I would instead put down two layers of 1708 to help firm it up. After the cap is installed I will put some backing plates for rod holders etc...

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5352.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5355.JPG


I flipped over the old floor/liner.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5357.JPG

It looked like the old fiberglass liner was glued to the plywood floor with liquid nails.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5358.JPG

I had expected it to be cabosiled to the wood. Here was a delima. Liquid nails is extremly tough to break free. Cabosil would have been easier. There was one layer of cloth glassed to the underside of the wood core. I cut the seems with a die grinder and proceeded to remove the wood core with some hand tools.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5359.JPG

It came apart OK but is very lumpy due to the wood fibers stuck to the fiberglass. There will be a lot of sanding involved to get this smooth enough to re-install therefore I'm considering scrapping the old laminate to save some time and grinding. I have another plan in the works already.

Limber holes made from PVC. Note the extra resin that I forgot to wipe away.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5363.JPG

Cutting notches in the stringers for the fuel tank fill and vent hoses.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5367.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5368.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5369.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5372.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5373.JPG

couple of 20 footers

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5374.JPG

1/2 inch plywood floor cut for a trial fit. This is not marine ply. The only place i've put marine ply so far is in the transom.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5375.JPG

I poured what was left of my foam in between the stringers to make the Coast Guard happy. Along with whats inside the stringers this will hopefully keep her floating.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5378.JPG

1 1/2 ounce cloth glassed to the underside of the plywood floor.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5380.JPG

Cabosil on the stringers and side supports making it ready for the floor.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5381.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5382.JPG

Floor screwed down to the stringers.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5384.JPG

There will be no rigging tubes thru the stringers. The gas tank (Thanks Tim) has a channel down the side for all my rigging which will go strait back to the transom. I got my order of balsa core in. I also have 8 2x4 sheets of 5/8 inch Elastifoam.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5387.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5388.JPG


Test fitting the front deck

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5360.JPG

I got it level and made some measurements. I needed to extend the sides out so they could sit on some side supports. Bigshrimpin helped me make a template and I cut some plywood for this.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5395.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5398.JPG


I finished glassing over the wood and did a test fit. close enough for the girls I go out with.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5405.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5406.JPG


I made some marks and 5 minute epoxied some core cell to the sides of the hull like I did for the sides of the deck.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5407.JPG

They then got laminated to the hull.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5408.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5409.JPG


And another test fit once everything had set up.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5410.JPG

I'm happy with the way things are going so far. Starting to feel like I'm making a little progress.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick, your makin some great progress...it is actually starting to look like something now...hahaha. Just wondering what type of wood you used for the floor?
-andrew

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick- Man, you are doing a great job. The photos and explanations are greatly appreciated. There is more than one way to skin a SeaCraft, but your route and effort to document the job really opens the door to many of us who want to be more hands on with rebuilds. Since the gunnel liner has been cut out below the deck lip(beginning of the job), what are you doing for finish work(besides rod hoder/deck supports) to cover the exposed hull sides from the inside?

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick,

What are you doing with the balsa core?

Your work is exceptional as usual...helps keep me motivated.

JW

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Hmmm....is anyone else getting red x's where the pictures should be?

Re: Here We Go Again
 

nope, the photos are there on my end.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

andrew- I forgot what they call it but it is rated for outside use. Got it from Lowes around $25 a sheet. One side was finished and smooth and the other had a few knotts in it. I meant to place the finished side up but screwed up when I cut it so I had to flip them over. They will get several layers of glass on top.

Snookered- Thanks. I was planning to core the sides of the hull with the balsa core and 1-2 layers of 1 1/2 ounce cloth over the balsa core then make some thin fiberglass panels from a molding table and laminate that to the Balsa core. However the plan changes day by day.

Tex- Balsa core is for the above water sides of the boat. I have pleanty so I may use it on other things as well.

Ed- I guess they turned off my web site earlier today because I did not pay my domain name. They never sent me a bill in the mail. I changed my e-mail address so i did not get their e-mail also. Did you ever get your rub rail on?

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Template's I forgot to show earlier that were used for the forward deck support:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5391.JPG
http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5392.JPG


close up of how it will sit:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5411.JPG

Getting a line on the 3/8" balsa core:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5412.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5413.JPG


Elastifoam used for adding the bulk head on the forward deck:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5414.JPG

Checking fit:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5415.JPG

Re attaching the step up with cabosil:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5416.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5418.JPG


Once the cabosil dried I took off the plywood blocks and glassed completly over the foam panel.

More elastifoam used to add height to the platform:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5431.JPG

cabosiled and then glassed in place:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5435.JPG

Balsa core cut to fit and glued in place with light cabosil added to resin:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5439.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5441.JPG

Balsa core tabbed in place top and bottom with 1708. The rest will covered with 1 1/2 ounce matt.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5443.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5445.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5450.JPG

Trying to dfecide how I want to procede from here.


strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Why not use more 1708 unstead of mat? It will have more strength and close to the same weight.

mat= 13.5oz per sqyd

1708= 23 3/4oz per sqyd

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Man, have I been out of the loop. I thought you were working on a house or something. Looks like you've been busy. When you're done, head East and help me a bit. I've got 2 that need finishing...

Looking good Strick. I especially like the coreing in the hull sides. I probably would have opted for a scored klegecell or even NIDA, but the balsa will do. You just have to make sure its sealed and has no penetrations.

Vinylester is nice to work with... aside from the fumes.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Hey strict....that's your usual outstanding work....
So what is that Elastifoam??? I did search and got to a vet site???

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I was thinking the matt would be easier to wet out on the vertical surface plus I have lots of extra matt, however you are right Bobby and I probably will take your advice plus it will stay level because it's the same material.

Ed- Yes I was working on the house took a year and a half to complete. Moved in last April. Congrats on that new practice. Once you are finished getting that all set up you will be looking sweet. I've been trying not to spend a lot of money on materials on this boat thus the balsa instead of the more fancy coring materials. It will be water tight.

The foam coreing that I'm using is actually spelled Elastofoam sorry for the miss spell. It's 5/8 inch thick and very easy to work with needing to be cut only with a knife. It'easy to glass. Core cell is better but more $$$.

Right now I have another problem I tried to do a test fit of the gunnel cap tonight but it seems the boat got a little wider when I was not looking. I'll have to make some slight mods to the cap to get it back in place :mad:

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Do you think the sides sagged outward some while you had the cap off??? I'm close to pulling the cap off my Tsunami and will have it off for at least a couple of months....if it could possibly sag outward I'll have to brace or strap it some way. Any chance you could pull the sides in..??
Maybe when you barced the floor supports it pushed the sides out some.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I've been thinking about it some. How this could have happened. When looking at the sides of the hull from the outside there is no buckleing or distortion to the hull. It looks fine. I think just the top part of the hull bowed slightly after the cap was removed. Adding the floor only reinforced this new slightly wider shape. I would reccommend replacing the floor while the cap is still on or doing like i did on another boat when I replaced the whole stringer system I ran some 1x4's cross ways to the sides of the hull at 4 foot intervals and glassed them in place. They were a pain in the rear to work around but they kept the hull the same size when I was finished.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick-
What a pain in the back side! What about applying inward pressure on the hull to flex it closer together? Project is looking good.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Good advice Strict....I was thinking of notching 2x4's and laying them across the hull with the top edge in the notch.
I think I'll look at doing what I can with the cap on...and when I do pull it have a plan for full support of the hull and sides. I pulled the gas tank and was looking at the stringers...I did a few core drillings and there's a lot of open space along with the foam....so I'm considering a repour ala bonefish.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Hmmm....on more thinking about it, since the floor is part of the liner would it matter if I do the floor with the cap on...???...I haven't progressed far enough to see how the liner attaches to the hull sides.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

When you take the cap off of almost any boat there is a similiarity of a fat lady coming out of a girdle. The sides bowed out a bit, its their tendency. Unfortunately, you cored/stiffened those sides to hold this new shape. I'd say you are going to have to modify the cap as you eluded.

Hind sight is always 20/20, and honestly the same thing would have happened to me. I chalk them up to my never ending lists of rookie mistakes. Good thing is that I only have to make a mistake once. And hopefully someone else will learn a lesson from your hard work... after all, that is why we have these webpages and forums.

I think the way that you had cut the cap would have allowed you to reposition it onto the hull where you could have then put the core material into the sides as well as any decking that joins up to the hull sides. Once glassed and cured, you could have re-removed the cap to continue any work that you were doing to it.

Another method would have been to cut and install some ribs (2x4's would be fine) beam-wise in the boat before removing the cap. These would stay in place until the cap was ready to go back. However that would make moving around inside the hull a little more difficult.

Looking great though. You'll make it right in the end.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

mr ringleader




me ole girlfriend used to wear dem girdle thingies but i got her da southern stile swimmin hole suit. she be the one wearin all the time

see ya sam

http://momentoffame.com/photopost/up...irl_friend.jpg

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I had the same problem. Removing the cap allowed the sides to relax and the boat got 2 inches shorter. I removed the bow supports/rollers on the trailer and put a jack + a 4ft length of a 4x4 length wise under the middle of the hull. I jacked the boat up and within a day the sides of the boat sucked in enough to put the cap back on and the boat grew 2" (back to it's "normal" length). I'm sure there was a temporary hook in the hull, but it worked for me. Don't forget to keep the pressure on the bow with the winch.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick...don't panic I had the same problem, although my situation might have been easier since I didn't recore the hullsides!

You need two guys for this and some pry/crow bars......the top cap will flex a little and sung up onto the top. I was panicked when I test fit my top-cap I removed from my 20 MA, but eventually after some prying, cursing, pushing, cursing, more prying it came on, but then I had to remove it again to modify a live well....this weekend I will have to put it on again!

Re: Here We Go Again
 

And a fat lady it was. Thanks fellas for the encouragement but she is not budging. No amount of jacking,pushing, or prying will get it to fit. The hull grew 2 inches in each side. The good news is that I now have gained more cockpit space...the bad news is that I've created more work for myself. I've already cut the deck cap. I think my next move will be to make some side supports for the deck cap in several areas along both sides of the hull..glass in a forward bulk head were the anchor locker is (like in the 23sf) put the cap back on temporarily install the cap in place to get some measurements take the cap off and then re-glass the the cap together. It is cut down the middle over the anchor locker.

The reason I posted this mistake was like Ringleader said to help someone from doing the same thing. I get a lot out of these web sites and hopfully I can give some thing back once in a while even if it's to my own embarrasment. It will be fixed right in the end and look good. In my hurry to get things done I'm sure there will be more mistakes to come for this backyard would be wanna be boat restorer.

strick

P.S. Spidercrab that is one sure firing mama you have there. Over here in California they are little more on the skinny side. Got any more pics?

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strck,
Carefull what you ask spidercrab for :)
Oh yea and there not called mistakes there called modifications! The work you are doing is top notch keep it coming.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Cap set back in place and adjusted to the right height.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5451.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5452.JPG


I made some small one off molds for the three cap side supports that will go on either side of the boat. The parts come out of these molds will be solid fiberglass and will get laminated to the side of the hull.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5456.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5457.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5460.JPG

2x4's bolted to the cap to hold it all in place for removal.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5454.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5455.JPG


The cap came off OK and I now have my work cut out to fix it so it will be sound. This week I hope to finish glassing over the balsa core, make the side supports and get to work on finishing the cap.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick can't believe you have got as much done as you have! One thing I have seen with your flooring and casting deck, you have glassed these to the sides of the boat whereas before they were part of the liner, won't this cause a hard spot where that is glassed and cause cracking ?

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Hard spots come into play when there is an area of flexibility touching the hard spot such as the sides of the hull touching the floor. However I am reinforcing the sides of the hull with coring side supports and glass to make them stiffer so there will be minimal if any flexibility at that area. The whole boat will be one big hard spot when I'm done with it. :D

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Where's Finster when you need him???

Nice job so far Strick!!!!

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I was thinking the same thing. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Any ideas on how I should fix this mess?

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5455.JPG

I'm debating if I should take the easy way out and just re-core over the top of the old core and glass over it or if I should rip the old core out and start from scratch.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Didn't you just recore the topcap? If so getting the core out and "starting from scratch" would be rather difficult and counter productive.

Grid out a bevel in the and try to join the two halves. Maybe glass cross members running horizontally underneath to reinforce the front cap area.

I feel your pain, but your making awesome progress. I finally got the top cap back onto my Master Angler this past weekend. I also glassed it, 5200, and through bolted the top cap to the hull.....it ain't going nowhere!

Will post pics later.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I don't think its necessary to remove the coreing in that top cap to adequately join the sides together. I would scarf in a piece to join the two halfs and then cut a larger piece of some kind of core material that overlaps the joined area by 8" or 10" or so on each side and glass that to place. If you use a piece of coosa or something like that it won't add but 10 lbs or so to the situation up there. Hell 3/4" plywood and a little glass won't add but 20 lbs at the most. Bevel back the glass on the sides of each half on the top side and glass it up real well. It'll be strong as hell.

I just removed all the old masty plywood core material from the fuel tank hatch on my big Mako and in some spots I caused some nice damage geting that core material out... Now if the core in that forward deck is rotten or wet, well take it out and start fresh. Otherwise, I would splint it together from the underside.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

What Eddie said will be the easiest way to do it.

I would probelly cut the skin on the underside and the core out about 6in wide and leave the outer skin and install a piece of core in there.

But you may have a problem with that in that where you have the bolt's may be in the way.

As I said the way Eddie said will be the easiest and be just fine. On the added core on the underside be sure to 45deg the sdge's to allow the glass to conform easy and give a factory look that no one but us will know it's not stock.

A added bonus will be a thicker core for hardware mounting.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Ok that sounds like a good plan. I'd also like to make a anchor locker hatch on top of the cap and by glassing it together like you have described I can still do that. There will be a bulkhead under this part of the cap anyway plus it will also get glassed to the hull like I found it so it should be ok. It started raining yesterday so I've moved the boat to the shed. I wont get to work on it till this weekend.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

With the anchor hatch in mind, I'd go ahead and buy the hatch.
Then build a parimeter frame on the underside while it's upside down.
Then have a piece of overlap core for and aft of that to span the cut.

Set the hatch so the hinge's are to the side. [Port side]
What this does is get the hatch out of the way when your deploying or retriving line.

I saw this setup first on a Teira and it work's well, as apposed to having the hinges foward or aft.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

That and if you recall on Ryan's Intrepid the hinges on the anchor locker are to the rear of the lid. Since there is no slam latch (which I need to install for him one day) every time you come off of a wave in a rough sea the lid opens and slams. I think to the right or left side would help that, but a slam latch is the way to go there as well.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Thats exactly what I was thinking of doing except I dont have any premade hatches in mind. I dont like the Bomar hatches because they are not very UV resistant and they will chalk over time. If you look at what Hermco did to his 20 http://www.hermco.net/gallery-2.htm It looks like he glassed in the frame off a Bomar hatch then built his own lid? I may do something like that or if you have any other hatches in mind? I can make one from scratch but getting the weather stripping right is a bit of a pain so I'd rather buy one and make a recessed area on the cap for it to sit in.

strick