Re: Update
 

Hey Dave

I have some 30 year old wood wedges that my platform brackets are mounted to. I give them the 260lb test every spring. If she holds me, I let her go for another year :D But seriously, I could use 4 of those brackets...maybe a new transom.. :D

Keep up the good work
Brandon

Re: Update
 

Have not used lacquer sanding sealer since my cabinet spraying days when I was a kid. Did you use an airless to spray that? Looks like they turned out real nice. The brackets that came with my boat are a little small and I thought about making some bigger fiberglass ones at some point....now I have a tutorial to go by. :cool:

One of my best buddy's is a structural engineer and when I made my first fiberglass engine bracket I asked him how I could load test it to make sure it would not break. His answer was to bolt it to a wall and get 2-3 big fellas to jump up and down on it...All that school for nothing I thought :D

One of my favorite pictures:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/DSCN3866.JPG

Keep up the good work

strick

Re: Update
 

Thanks for the encouraging comments, guys.

Chuck,
First, I want to say thanks again for posting on all your restoration work. This is the first fiberglass part of any size I've ever made. The fact it was a success is a testament to the information you have shared. Until I started following your posts, I had no idea how to use PVA, for instance. Your willingness to share your experience made the difference between a pretty decent part, and what could have been a solid block of fiberglass that wouldn't part from the mold.

If you're interested, I'll ship you my mold and a lay-up schedule after I finish with my brackets.

BTW, I spoke with a guy at a local boat manufacturer the other day and he said to avoid the lacquer. He said polyester resin could bond to it even if you use wax and PVA. My plug separated easily, so either I'm lucky, or it's not a problem when you use enough wax and PVA.

Dave

Re: Update
 

Dave-

Most of what I have learned is from others on these boat forums. When I started restoring boats back in 1988 there was no internet to look for help and I made a lot of mistakes and wasted a lot of money. My first boat was so heavy it rode like a tug boat even though it was a planing hull. I had filled every little nook and cranny with expanding foam because I wanted to make it like a whaler (something I wanted but could not afford at the time)...I still cant believe someone bought that boat from me :D

Duratec is probably best to use for mold surface. Their sanding primer has lots of uses and tooling is one of them. Also the clear duratec works great if you want to make a semi smooth surface even smoother as a mold surface. Enjoying your thred.

strick

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

I've been doing some more patching and sanding, but not enough to post yet. I used saw horses and plywood to set up a couple temporary tables in my shop. I found that cutting glass cloth, mixing resin, sanding parts, etc. generates a lot of stuff that has to be moved around. It seemed like I was spending a lot of time moving stuff from one table to the other so I could clean up and move it back. I decided to take a few hours in the evenings this week to make a portable work bench with storage underneath. Here's Before:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3356.jpg


Here's the fabrication underway:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3358.jpg


The finished frame, on casters:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3359.jpg


And the completed bench with stuff stored underneath:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3379.jpg

Hopefully, it will improve my productivity.
Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

WTG Dave...
I just love cracker engineering! ;)
Anything to make the job go easier is a good idea..

See ya, Ken

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Nice job Dave

Rolling work benches are the greatest. I have a small steel welding table with a large vice on it. Also my drill press and grinder are on wheels too. I'd like to make rolling bases for everything because my shop is small and it gives you a lot more options, depending on what you are working on, and I have this crazy idea that everything should go away after I use it, to leave the shop tidy for the next project...that almost never happens :D

About the boat...noticed you filled in your thru hulls for your head. Are you going with a porta potty or what are your plans? Our head has a built in holding tank and pump out. I'm going to change it out one day. Silicone is holding the crack for now though :D

Brandon

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

I don't anticipate much need for a head. The boat will mostly be used for day trips. I will probably pick up a porta potty for the occasional overnight trip. I entertained the thought of leaving in the original head, but didn't want to worry about leaks and definitely didn't want to mess with a waste tank.
Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Did the original head just dump overboard? I believe they outlawed those kind, but, if it was "original" wouldn't it have been grandfathered in??

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Yes, they were grandfathered in. Not sure of the current regs. but probably still holds for the originals. You can be sure that since he has changed it, he can't go back -LEGALLY anyways.

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

I looked it up a while back. They were grandfathered in initially. I forget the year, but there was a date certain that they all became illegal. You had to convert to a holding tank to be legal. It's kinda ironic, you can use a bucket and then toss the contents overboard, but you can't have a head on board that does the same thing. Another example of one size fits all legislation, I guess.
Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Just another example of "Stinkin Thinkin" legislation - So, What else is new?

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

I know the Great Lakes are real strict on holding tanks.

You can have a straight flush head on your boat as long as it has a Y valve on it (salt water) and in shore it is in the closed position and locked. Out side of 3 miles you can open and flush.

The 21 originally had a head and I am going to put it back in when complete.

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

I haven’t posted progress pics in a while because I’ve been bouncing around doing different stuff and haven’t really brought anything to completion. But I have been working on the boat and there is a common thread to what I’m trying to accomplish.

I’ve owned boats in Florida for the past 20 years. Like most recreational boats, they spend most of their time on the trailer. But Florida is wet. All the time. Where I live in North Central Florida, the average annual rainfall is a little over four feet. Average humidity for the year is 77%. So when water gets inside a boat, on a trailer or in the water, it won’t dry out in a hurry. So I’m building in some features that will help control where water can go, and how much of it can accumulate.

For instance, the bilge in the 25 Seafari is deep and has a 25 degree deadrise at the keel. There’s no good way to install a bilge pump that won’t leave a fair amount of water in the bilge. And there’s no way to fit a bilge pump large enough for this boat under the bell housing or transom assembly of the I/O. So I decided to modify it so it won’t hold as much water and will create a flat area where a large bilge pump can be located. First, I tabbed in some 1” PVC from the cabin bulkhead back to the aft end of the engine compartment.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3314.jpg

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3313.jpg

I left one pipe shorter than the other because I wanted to leave a sump at the transom where I can put a small bilge pump. Next, I used a hot wire foam cutter to make some styrofoam filler strips for the keel build up.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3308.jpg

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3341.jpg

I used epoxy resin and 1808 biax to glass them in. Sealed in epoxy, the foam should be protected from any fuel leakage in the bilge, and the built up keel won’t hold as much water. More importantly, any bilge water should be under the buildup inside the PVC pipe and not sloshing around under the engine where it might leave salt deposits on the oil pan and accelerate corrosion. At least that’s my working theory. We’ll see how it works out. The build-up is about 2” deep.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3320.jpg

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3322.jpg

I plan to mount a couple large bilge pumps with automatic float switches forward of the engine, but aft of the engine compartment bulkhead. Unless I spring a substantial leak, they’ll never come on. But I’m not planning to use flotation foam, and I want enough pump capacity to handle a busted through-hull or a hull puncture.

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Another problem I want to avoid is dry storage that isn’t dry. The hatches on the casting deck on my SF 20 have gutters:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3395.jpg

… but they’re too shallow to be effective. If I leave the plug in the fish box, it fills up with rainwater. The gutters around the hatches on my action craft are much better. They’re deeper and they have a drain to the motor well, or in the case of the anchor locker, to a through hull

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3394.jpg

So for the all the boxes I’m planning to build, I’ll have a gutter setup that keeps the interior as dry as possible. I made the first box last weekend. I used sign board as the base for my layup and to build molds for two box compartments. I ripped tapered strips of spruce from a 2x4 for the gutter molds.

The gutters screwed to the table from underneath:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3381.jpg

The boxes:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3384.jpg

The clay fillets:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3385.jpg

Then sprayed with PVA:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3387.jpg
Gelcoat sprayed on:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3389.jpg

The layup complete:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3390.jpg

And the part popped from the mold:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3391.jpg

The deck and hatches will be a separate assembly. I still need to insulate one of the boxes and put a drain in the gutter. The part has some aligatoring where the PVA didn't have good coverage over the clay fillets, but other than that it turned out pretty well.

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

I’ve also been patching holes and doing some glassing inside the boat. I patched the holes in the coaming:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3355.jpg

I patched all the holes through the engine compartment bulkhead and glassed both sides with a layer of 1.5oz. mat and a layer of 1808.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3399.jpg

I patched the holes for the through-transom exhaust.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3354.jpg

As you can see from this picture, The glass on the inside of the transom wasn’t thick enough to prevent crushing of the plywood core from the through-bolts holding the swim platform brackets.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3396.jpg


To fix this, I overdrilled all the through-bolt holes for the swim platform brackets and the I/O transom assembly and then filled them with a mixture of epoxy resin, erosil, and wood flour. I’ll redrill the holes through the epoxy plugs when I’m done with the transom work. Here are the holes drilled out and ready for filling:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3397.jpg

And the holes filled and the inside of the transom glassed with a layer of 1.5oz mat and two layers of 1808:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3398.jpg

I used peel ply over the center of the transom so I won’t have to sand before painting the bilge or tabbing in the stringers. The peel ply peels off and leaves a surface with a fine weave pattern that provides good mechanical keying.

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Nice work on the boxes Dave. Are you going to cut the top of the entryway to the cabin back now that you are going that route? I was thinking of doing that to mine but opted for the less work/original configuration route instead. Great lakes Skippers has some pre made cabin entry doors that looked like they would have worked. making fast progress keep posting.

http://greatlakesskipper.com/product...hatch-top.html

strick

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Nice work! You mentioned alligators from lack of PVA mold release, I had alot of alligators in my layups so more pva would help me?

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Thanks.

strick can answer your qustion better than I can. He's said in his posts to make sure you get good PVA coverage over your clay fillets. On my layup, the fillets between the box and the gutter were difficult to spray, coverage was spotty, and that's where my gators are.

Mirage boats are made here in Gainesville. The shop foreman also runs their ship's store and is very helpful. I talked to him about it and he thinks the clay did it. If your alligators aren't on clay fillets, it's got to be something else. The guy at Mirage said too much wax can do it too.

What do you think, Chuck?

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

I like that idea. I hadn't thought of it. I checked out the door/hatch combo at Great Lakes Skipper and it looks like the hatch slopes up as it goes forward. Not sure it will work on the Seafari. But it shouldn't be too hard to make a guttered hatch. Realistically, though, I'm probably not going to have a door on the cabin when I launch her on her maiden voyage. I expect I'll leave the cabin stuff for last and do it after I get her wet.

On another note, I did a trial fit of my water tank this afternoon, and it won't go as far forward as yours. The center of yours is about two feet forward of the center of mine. But mine is 28 gallons, so I'm hoping it will provide enough forward ballast. If not, I guess I'll have to throw some pig weights in the anchor locker ;) :D :D

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Dave, your restoration is looking great! I hadn't logged on in a while but am thoroughly impressed. Keep up the good work.

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

The clay is oil based and if you don't get good coverage over the clay with the PVA then your gonna get some alligators as the oil from the clay reacts with the gel coat. The problem with alligators is that there are many causes so you have the try and determine what caused them for each particular incident. For big parts I've learned it's best not to cut corners and to take each step carefully. Alligators suck.

strick

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Last night I laid up the sole for the fuel tank compartment. The PO scabbed onto the keel stringer to bring it up to the same height as the stringers on either side of the compartment.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3320.jpg

I took advantage of that support to make my sole almost flush with the tops of the stringers. Basically, the sole is built like a hatch with ¾” plywood cores between the stringers, and about 3/16” laminate over the stringers. The tank compatment sole I removed was a piece of 1/2" CDX plywood with glass mat on the top only. It was waterlogged and slimey. This should be an improvement.

First, I cut ¾” plywood to fit between the stringers with about ¾” space all the way around. Then I used my table saw to cut a 16 degree bevel around the edges of the plywood and scabbed them together at the correct spacing. I put 6 mil visqueen on top of my work bench and then screwed down the cores from underneath.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3401.jpg

I cut two layers of 1808 to go between the cores and around the outside edges, and one layer to go over the whole thing.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3402.jpg

Then I laid it up using epoxy resin.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3406.jpg

Flipped right side up:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3407.jpg

Trimmed and excess resin ground off:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3410.jpg

And trial fit in place:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3409.jpg

When I’m ready to glass it in, I’ll use thickened epoxy to glue it down to the stringers, and then go over the whole thing with another layer of 1808 to tab it to the stringers and bulkheads. Before I do that, I need to run the discharge pipe for the fresh water tank underneath. The pump will be located in the engine compartment.

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Good idea Dave. What kind of shape is the deck in? You probably remember I added some support by glassing plywood from the tops of those two stringers to the deck. My situation as a bit different then yours as I was trying to repair the area were the PO has cut out the fuel hatch. I like the extra support as the deck is solid as a rock now. Looks like you have a nice supply of fiberglass there. :D

strick

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Thanks, Will. You haven't posted on yours in a while. Been off stalking Bambi? I'm trying to stay focused on mine so I don't lose momentum.


Thanks, Chuck. The deck's in good shape, but there's a little deflection forward of the tank hatch. There's a stiffener laminated into the underside of the deck, running side to side, but it was notched to allow the forward tank fill and vent to pass under. I'll either repair the stiffener, or throw some support in there similar to what you did to stiffen it up.

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Coming along very nicely Dave!

You've got some great ideas :cool:

Brandon

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

I need to make a trip to Newberry! :rolleyes:

Dave you are on the right track....

See ya, Ken

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Could you use patching plaster instead of clay for the radius? I`m about to make my first mold.

Resto is looking very nice.

Cheers,
gfs

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

All I know is when I go to the Fiberglass Supply store all they say is use clay.

This store sells to all the repair people in SW FL. so I would think stick with what everyone is using.

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Thanks for your kind words, Sandy. On the clay, I agree with Terry. It's easy to work with and makes a very smooth fillet. I'm pretty sure that the only reason I had problems was that I had some pretty tight spots in my mold and didn't get good coverage with the PVA. I'll be sticking with clay fillets, but I'll watch my PVA coverage closely.

Brandon and Ken,
Thanks for your encouragement, too. Ken, If you want to stop by, you're welcome any time. Just be forewarned, I may stick a sander in your hand and put you to work. Of course, I'll have a beer for your other hand. :D

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Sandy, I think plaster tends to shrink as it dries out, especially if it gets too thick. Also fairly brittle when dry. I'd be worried about cracks, both in the thickest parts of the fillet, and at the bond line. Sounds like clay will work fine if you just keep an eye on the details (adequate mold release agent/PVA and cure time, etc.)!

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Clay or wax is the best. I've used about everything including bondo. Just make sure you wax it well and get good PVA coverage. A heat gun helps to soften the clay and then take a socket on a extension and run it along the clay and it will smooth out like butter. Make sure you press the clay in real hard and run your thumb along it before using the heat gun and socket.

strick

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Just to add my 2 cents. I recently had a terrible time with lligators. I was doing my molding out side in full sun. To day I had a wee bit of shade and the suuny side began alligatoring and the shady side was fine. As Strick said there are lots of causes. I probably cost my self 5 hundred dollers and 20 hrs of work, but I think I''ve got it licked now.
PS I've been using "Clean Clay" for my fillets

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

My first plug cracked. Can`t find pics....where could they be? Next question. Has anyone used the silicone spray mold release. Thanks for the help gang!

Keep the great pics coming. Now it`s Cracker weather.

Cheers,
GFS

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Doing lots of sanding and grinding over the weekend, but nothing that makes impressive pics. Shop was a mess. The rolling work bench helped a lot so I made another one.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u.../IMG_34142.jpg

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u.../IMG_34282.jpg

It gave me a place to put all the power tools I've been tripping over for the past couple weeks. The first bench is 3'x8', the second is 4'x6'.

I also got my seats

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...9/IMG_3412.jpg

And a few trinkets

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...9/IMG_3413.jpg

The seats are Todd Ladder back and were on special, almost 60% off, I guess because of the embroidered fishy. Works for me. The little gauge next to the Floscan is an OEM Mercury vacuum gauge. The remote control is a NOS Merc concealed panel mount vintage 1976. The rod holders are cast stainless, about the same quality as Lee, but 1/4 the price. In case it's not obvious, I'm a tightwad.
Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

[quote

Brandon and Ken,
Thanks for your encouragement, too. Ken, If you want to stop by, you're welcome any time. Just be forewarned, I may stick a sander in your hand and put you to work. Of course, I'll have a beer for your other hand.


[/QUOTE]


NOW, that's an offer not to be refused!!! ;) :D :D :D

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Dave, my day job has had me in Louisiana since the beginning of October. Hope to be home by Christmas to pick up where I left off. Only hunted once but scored a nice 8 point.

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

It's been almost a month since I've posted an update. I've been working on her, but it seems like most of the time I've put in has been sanding paint off the cap. I wanted to get the drudgery done before I lost momentum. I still have to sand the bottom below the chine, and the coaming and cabin bulkhead in the cockpit, but progress is progress. I've done a couple things to break up the monotony of sanding and I guess they're worth posting. First, I ground out the spider cracks in the transom to make sure they didn't go all the way through the fiberglass. Turns out the PO used gelcoat as fairing compound and where it was too thick, it cracked:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...IMG_3278-1.jpg

I ground off the gelcoat and started with bare fiberglass:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3429.jpg

I laminated a layer of 1808 over the transom to build back laminate thickness:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3430.jpg

And then applied the first coat of fairing compound. I applied it with a serrated trowel so there would be less material to remove while fairing it flat again:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3433.jpg

As I was fairing the transom, I was using my 4' aluminum level as a straight edge to check for high spots and low spots. I noticed that as I moved the level over the sanded surface, it left dark streaks on the high spots. The soft aluminum was acting like the graphite in a pencil. So I applied more pressure and used the level to mark the high spots and concentrated my sanding effort there:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3438.jpg

I knocked down the high spots, applied a skim coat of fairing to the low spots and faired some more:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3448.jpg

I sprayed some water on it to get an idea of how flat it is and it looks pretty good. There are still a couple spots that need a little attention, but it's almost there. I spent about two and a half days on the fairing and sanding. Gotta love it.

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

This boat originally had twin engines. When it was restored the last time, it was converted to a single engine. The PO put in panels to fill in the deck and make a smaller engine compartment opening. The panels were screwed in place and caulked with silicone. They were well made, but I wanted something more permanent and seamless. So I ground a taper on the edges of the panels and the deck and also ground the underside to make sure I would get a good bond.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3434.jpg

Then I held them in place with some batten strips and glassed the underside of the seam with a couple layers of 1808 and epoxy resin.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3435.jpg

When the bottom laminate had cured, I removed the strips, glassed the top with three layers of 1808 and polyester resin and then sanded it smooth with a belt sander.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3450.jpg

It’s plenty strong. It will support my weight without deflecting too much even though it’s cantilevered about a foot past the stringer that supports the deck. I plan to support both sides from underneath after I get some of my plumbing and electrical raceways installed under the deck.

Dave

Re: Another 25 Seafari goes under the knife
 

Looking good Dave. I don't envy you on the transom. Thats a lot of work to make it look right. Are you planning on making some kind of lip around the engine compartment to keep water out? One thing I started to do with my engine compartment but got frustrated and gave up was to install some gas shocks for the engine cover. If you thought about doing that as well then the time is now before the engine goes in and gets in your way.

strick