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Instead of having the windshield line raise up, do a black glass low profile one following the rear coaming line straight forward with lots of rake at the helm; kinda like the old Checkmate or Donzi. It would only be about 10 or 15" high in the front but the line would be really nice. Just enough windshield to keep the wind from sloshing drinks out.:D
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I think you're right . . . if you don't install a windshield, after your first WOT run, you'll wish you had! You could always follow Island Trader's lead and make one from scratch out of oak! :eek: |
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My throttle only knows 2 positions....I don't have no where to be when Im on the water but where ever im going I want to get there fast! I am a firm believer of these hulls only need a 115 to perform well but they aint fast enough to make me happy with them stock. Gottta thank Mercury for the 2.5 & 2.0 motahs under 400 lbs. 375 lbs and 350 HP is possible but so it chine walk.:D |
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This is what I had in mind but something a little taller. I do think I will just clean up the factor one and install it so that I can get done and moving along on the 25' seafari
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Splashed for the first time! What a ride! She is fast, not sure how fast but it is quick. Motor is in top holes and needs to come down some due to I could not trim it out to a normal position with out slipping. I started all the way up and have 4 holes down to go if needed. I'm plus 5" up now and knew it was high so no surprise there. Ran it with the motor tilt and trim all the way down just for a minute or two. It handled good and seemed to like the balance from what I could tell in the short time.
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In the water this weekend. Oh yeah she is quick. I didn't stay on the handle for long or let it top out but got on it just enough to know she is fast. The balance is perfect, it handles great. Very smooth no chine walk or any unwanted motion. She hopped right up on plane and ran flat out. I didn't look at the gps speed but would guess it will be a 60 mph plus boat. Sometimes with a bracket you get some bad characteristics from bad balance but I must of got this one right. The motor was too high at 5" above the keel so I dropped it to 3.5" above now and need to run it again. The prop slipped a little before if I trimmed it up to high. I knew it would need to come down some but just tried it that high just to see.
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That thing would look cool with a low profile windshield.
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The windshield had some oxidation on it and after cleaning it up a bit it looks a hundred times better. I have about half of it polished back up and as soon as I get the rest cleaned up I will be putting it back on. Also I have the bow railing and will reinstall it as well as the rub railing too.
You can see some dullness and water spots on the frame, most of it came right out with a little compound and a cloth wheel. There were some light scratches that came out but it took a little more to get them off. The rubber trim had yellowed but I found a way to bring it back to its original condition. I don't have any pictures of the finished frames yet but here are some pics of the start of the process. You can see just after the first pass it is starting to look better all ready. After some time on them they look much better than pictured below. http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...pse3a53c7c.jpg http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...psb3e571b2.jpg http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...psbaed581f.jpg |
Took the boat out after lowering down the motor this weekend. I went down two holes to get it at 3.5" above the keel and it done much better. I can trim the motor all the way up now with out any prop slip or breaking loose. My first run was with a 4 blade rev 4 17p and it would go over 6000 rpm easily and need more prop. I change it to a Mirage Plus 19p and it still needed a little more prop to get the rpms down a bit. The four blade gave me a little more lift than the 3 blade but not that big of a difference in the flat calm water in the back creek that I was in. In ruff water offshore the rev 4 would do much better holding but this boat is more intended for inshore anyway even tho it will do better than most out there in the blue water. With the 19p I hit 62 mph on GPS quickly and stopped at 6000. I had a 21p that I slipped on the boat for on last quick run and it seemed to be about right far as RPM range. I got it up almost to wot when I backed out of it. I did a quick glance at the speed and saw 65 for a second but did not watch it much this run due to being in a narrow creek with many turns and short straight stretches. My son that was with me clamed to see 67 mph but I didn't see that due to worrying about where we were pointed. We were also using the GPS speed off of an app on my cell phone so not sure how accurate it is anyhow as 67 seems not possible. The boat defiantly would run 63-65ish tho if you could get it to handle at and behave at those speeds. The boat handle awesome all the way up to 62 great but once you get over that it gets a little loose. It makes you tighten you hole up a bit. Over that speed if you make any slight steering adjustments it will try to get some slight chine walk but not bad as expected for a seacraft 20. That is a common issue with these hulls over 60 but they were not designed to that any how. Also the hull is light at the moment with no gas tank or rigging. just an empty shell with a 6 gallon pony tanks so once loaded down with rigging fuel it will probably not do these numbers. Over all I am really pleased with the performance and handling of the boat. Plenty of power and if I ever used the huge deck space to carry a large load the 3 liter outboard has plenty of torque to handle any weight thrown at it. It is amazing just how much room this model has in it with the bracket and full transom. She is a very fun boat to ride in and have fun with. Just need to get the rub rail back on and the windshield then she will be ready for spring!
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Frizzle - Been watching this build. Outstanding Job on the Whole boat...and Since I like speed the #'s your posting are Awesome!
It's really making me want to take a I/O Seafari 20' bracket it and drop on a Etec 200 which is only 58 lbs over your 225. Plenty of power to run with a big load...and Plenty of Ass kicking Power for Blowing The Bass Boats on the lake when its glassy here. That would be a sight for eyes a little Seafari ripping down the lake at 65mph plus... SHE Looks fabulous...and I wish i could talk the wife into letting me run a 20' Sceptre, I love the lines and look with the deck space. However she wants a Cabin. Next you need to run that baby into some Blue Water 3' to 4' and see what happens with that Power Plant on the back.. I would be very interested to see how she shakes out... Well Done! Robert |
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The boat is a little rear heavy but with the forward weight of the sceptre and seafari you can almost get away with the bracket and lager outboard. My bracket is a little over built and heavy so I imaging a Hermco would be 50-60 lbs lighter than mine so a E-tech 200 would be about the same weight with the lighter bracket and should float similar. I don't think you could do this to a center console with a heavy motor like you can with these style hulls. If I had infinite funds I would rather had the Mercury 175 pro xs for power. The 2.5's are lighter than the 3.0 by a bit and 175 hp propped right would carry this hull over 60 mph. Or even better a light weight 2.0 liter F1 motor from mercury racing. Motor really needs to be lighter, but if you have the need for speed its doable if you keep all the weight forward as possible. A 115 hp is best for balance but just not a as fast as I like. Anything over 62 gets a little scary and will make you nervous driving. It gets very touchy and will chine walk if not careful at high speeds. Very fun to drive tho. |
Frizz,
Ya, after watching you go crazy with the Sceptre, i mean i know you got some serious hours into that ride and it looks amazing. I am hoping the Seafari has enough weight forward that a 200 etec on a bracket fits perfect. When i get a little closer... (have to find the right seafari) I am looking now, I will run a few things past Denny and get some feedback. Curious if a larger in floor tank would help a little on balance. I have seen some pictures of Seafari and Sceptre boats all 20"s with big motors but all under 430 lbs.. that look to be balanced perfect sitting in the water. However there are a few sitting out there with big 4 strokes that the ass looks like its going to drown. I know Strick has a 140 zuki on his sceptre and i thought that engine was arouond 410 or 420 if i remember right. I can't believe that 20 lbs give or take will make any difference. I did...because i know you're a merc nut, check out the 175 pro xs and Eds Marine has a mongo sale about 11k out the door. But i think i got my mind set on a Bracketed 20 Seafari with a 200 Etec. Keep us posted here... and for what its worth.... I love the idea of the Chopped down windshield on your Sceptre. That looked Bad Ass to the Bone! Robert |
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Good luck finding the right boat, there are a few mint ones left out there but they are getting hard to find. Most have issues here and there but I did see a seafari a while back that was stored in a building for the last 20 years or so that looked like it was new all original unmolested. Think it was up north some where? I cant remember where but it was around $6k or so and not sure what power but think it was an 70's evenrude 140 maybe. It was on CL, might still be around. I will let you know if I see anything super clean that is in top shape if stumble across one. |
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After some time this winter passing and with spring in the air I decided to finish up the little 20'sceptre. I got out there this weekend and spent 3.5-4 hrs tapeing off the deck to get the original plank strip design back painted on. I used 2 part polyurethane interlux perfection with alw grip medium griptex non-skid mixed in to do the planks. Finding the right width tape to match the original spacing was not easy or available at the big box stores so I had to search around to find some but finally did. It was a very titious process getting the lines taped in straight and true but slow and steady four hours latter I was ready to roll the grip paint on. I took several coats to get the grip additive consistent and even but it looks good now that it is down and the tape removed. I didn't get any pics of the tape off but here are a few of the final floor. Up next is pulling the too heavy 3.0 225hp and installing a 2.5 that will be more what this boat needs weight wise. With the weight forward of this model it floated the bigger motor but should preform much better. I have a 2001 200hp that has a like new 100 hr 2007 drop on power head on it to try next.
These are not good pic's, took them at dark and they are low quality images but it turned out much better than it looks! Attachment 10098 Attachment 10099 |
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I have seen tons of boat builds up here but no motor builds so I figured I would do a outboard rebuild for the little sceptre up here if any body has interest in seeing it done. Nothing wild like the race boat will have but a basic rebuild and hop up on a common 2 stroke outboard. With the racing season over I made some time to get my new motor for the sceptre put together. I started out with a 2001 Mercury 200 efi 2.5 outboard (2.5 is the best and most popular block mercury ever made) that had a new 2017 power head installed on it. The power head suppose to have around an 100 hours on it and be like new but I decided to pull it apart and add new rings just so it would be a fresh new motor once it went on the boat. Once apart it looked like new, I was questioning myself for even opening it up. We now that it was apart, I decided to do the rings anyway just because at this point why not start the hour counter over again. The bores all looked good but I took it to Tommy Dunn of Get it dunn racing just to have him to check the tolerances. Tommy is one of the best racing mercury mechanics on the east coast. He builds big power outboards for the drag racers that are all over the us and other parts of the world. Any way, he checked it and told me I took apart a perfectly good motor for no reason but at least now I know what I got. He did do a slight hone to give it some better oiling hone marks to keep the pistons lubed better. The block got some rod slots to help direct the fuel mixture to the ports better for a little more power and a few other little tricks to hop it up slightly. While he had it I let him check the crank and add new high performance metal caged rod bearings instead of the factor plastic mercury ones. Polished up the crank journals and assembled the rotating assembly after he spent 3 hours cleaning the block. They are meticulous about cleaning the blocks and keeping them clean. The 2.5 blocks they build turn over 10,500 rpms and make 350 plus horse power. Mine will stay under 6200 and make 225-230ish so no near as much but still good to keep it clean a possible. Once back to the house I got the block and set up on the work bench and started putting it back together. I started with the exhaust divider, gasket and bolting it on while checking toque specks. I use the factory Mercury manual to aide in assemble due to it is 100x better than the aftermarket type service manuals. They run $100 but you can find them on ebay for $20 buck or so normally. Next I installed the heads, Got the surfaces prepped well then added the gasket and installed. Factory heads get installed with yield to torque bolts so you are suppose to torque to like 30 lbs then 1/4 turn to stretch the bolts. If you reuse the bolts you need to install them at just standard 40 lbs and no extra turns due to the bolts are already stretched and will not need the extra turn. If you do the extra turn, it will likely strip out the aluminum threads due to it ends up tighter cause the bolt has no give after pre-stretched. Next I try to get the reeds and adapter plate on so that it will close off the block and keep any dust out. The reeds I use normally are carbon or an epoxy/glass type. If you suck one in the motor if it breaks it will not hurt much. The factory ones are metal and will tear up a bunch of stuff it one fails. The reed cages I am using are plastic coated aluminum. The plastic coating will help them seat better for less blow back and that means more power! All that gets torqued to the correct speck then its on to the popet valve. The popet gets new gaskets, a new diaphragm, spring and block bushing/seat. These things leak all the time and get a little tear in the diaphragm and start dripping out the weep hole. If not fixed it will fill up the lower cowl with water and possibly suck some in the motor. I had my son help me with the torque on it. Some Pics of the rebuild:
Service Manual: Attachment 11270 Block/Rotating assembly: Attachment 11261 Port side: Attachment 11262 Cylinder Hone: Attachment 11263 O-ring Head: Attachment 11264 Exhaust port & new Rings: Attachment 11265 Exhaust divider in: Attachment 11266 Keep it clean! Attachment 11267 Reeds: Attachment 11268 Popet Valve: Attachment 11269 |
Nice relief work on the ports. You have a good machinist. Saw 4 old v8 rudes at an
auction preview. Tiller arms had nothing left. Makes you think if someone ran them that way. |
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Everything on this block has been mild to maintain low end torque. On My other two blocks for the race hull they are a little more cut up. Not as extreme as some but a nice cut to flow and still not loose all the bottom end. Similar to my exaust chest cut on my other blocks: Attachment 11274 A extreme cut for 10,000 plus rpm: Attachment 11275 |
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Now that I have gotten the main parts on the block and it is shut up to keep the dust out I started working on the more tedious items like the mechanical fuel pump, the bleeder lines, throttle linkage, thermostats, and other small items that need to go on before the electrical. I decided not to use the factory oil injection due to the high fail rate of the crank gears. They are plastic and will striping out easy but I did leave the gear on the crank so that it would take up space in the block. This will keep the air flow the same on that cylinder. Some people remove the gear being it is not used but that is a big mistake unless you epoxy the dead space in that passage way. The extra air space will slow down the velocity of that cylinder and it will pull less air threw the crank case. It creates an imbalance between cylinder banks and also, worse case, will lean that hole out causing a possible burnt piston. The more material you remove from the crank case the slower the air flow is and that kills power. On the race motor I have block stuffers that bolts into the bottom of the bores just to take up air space just to maximize the velocity. You would be surprised just how much power is gained by "stuffing the block". You would think the more open the better flow you get but it don't work that way in a 2 stroke. There is a plug kit that goes in place of the oil pump shaft and the small gear that inserts into the block. It will hold the brass bushing in place that is inside the block and keep it from coming out as well as cap off the hole on the out side of the block and also filling in the lost volume that the removed shaft took away. Next I install the trigger then stator and hook up the advance arm. I get the fly wheel installed, it is keyed so you cant clock it but one way. The starter gets mounted. I mount the rear cdm bracket and cdms( kinda like coils). Pop on the plug wires and make sure all the grounds are attached well and clean. Most of the older mercurys ran coils and switch boxes but in 2000/2001 they went to the cdm system and got away from the switch boxes. The cdms make for a much smoother and better controlled motor. Most of the race motors still run the switch boxes due to they rev 10,000rpm plus and the cdms will only support up to 8000/9000rpm then start breaking down. Most of the race motors in the 2000s came with cdms but the guys that turn them hard swap back to the switch box/coil ignition. For a river motor I would rather have the cdm set up but the other motors for my race hull will be getting the old style system even tho I wont turn it past 9000. After the ignition bracket is mounted on the rear of the motor the brackert fror the voltage regulators goes onto the side of the block. Then the start solenoid and trim relays go onto the bracket as well. I installed the wiring harness and started plugging every thing back in. I numbered everything with label tags before I unplugged it just so I knew where to go back with it. Most plugs are different and wont cross but I numbered it to make it easier. There are tons of little ground wires that go below the starter, make sure they are clean and all hooked up cause one left off and that could cause some major issues. Next up is the front fuel management system. I install the efi laser style injection and the water separator bracket with filter. It was cleaned very well including flow testing the injectors. You can send them off or you can make a home made rig to test them. Mercury sells a injector test box that will pulse the injectors at different rmp bands and you can set them up into a collection bottle and use a timer to run a time test run. As long as they have a nice even spray pattern and the fluid level is the same per the others you are good to go. If one is bad you will know right away by the bad pattern or the lack of fluid it puts out. If its stopped up you can back flush it with throttle body cleaner and wash out the crud in it till you get the even spray pattern and correct flow sometimes. My buddie has a set up with 6 corona bottles that collects the injector spray at the same time and can run all 6 together. I looks just like a back yard version of the real thing, instead of test tubes it has beer bottles. Works well for a red neck injector flow bench. Last thing you want is a bad stopped up injector smoking a piston in your new rebuilt motor. So once the injection set up is on the front of the adapter plate, all the rest of the throttle linkage can be hooked up and tested for wide open throttle. The gear shift/throttle slider can be bolted up. The rest of the wire harness plugged in. The two little black boxes (knock sensor) and (oil injection) warning modules only the one will go on. Now I bolt the VST tank to the motor. It gets cleaned well and usually there is varnish in the tank but this one was really clean due to the low hrs. The fuel lines to the laser unit get hooked up and also to the mechanical pump to the tank. The electric fuel pump wires go on. The studs and ring terminals are different sizes to keep from it getting hooked up backwards and reverse flow. The bottom oil feed hole gets plugged due to the premix. Next I install the Brucato ECU on the front of the motor. This is an after market ecu that will give me some different fuel curves and some adjustability of the fuel air mixture. I can hook it to my lap top and see tons of info as well as easily adjust it. The factor units are great till you start modifying the motors then you will need to reset the curves. I could of got by with the factor unit on this lightly modded motor but I will get a better tune with this one plus pick up some power. I spend some time doing a one over to make sure all the bleeder lines go to the right spot cause there is a ton of them. If you leave them off it can cause an ruff idle from fuel puddling in the intake or worse case leave off the line to the bottom bearing it could cause it to lock up from no oil. I try to make sure all the wiring is in place and the plugs are tight and secure. All the fuel lines get special tie wraps that are 50# rated and also have a special tab for full 360 degree seal. I see a lot of standard tie wraps on these outboards were they were replaced incorrectly with house hold type. They only seal part of the way around and don't get the section by the head where the right ones have a tab that catches contact all the way around. Now comes the fun part, getting this heavy thing lifted up and placed on the midsection.
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If you made it threw the long diarrhea of a post previous to this one you may of caught the part about using the correct tie wraps to secure the fuel, vent, drain and oil lines. The mercury oem ones are quite pricey so I found a set on McMaster Carr site and ordered them at a lot cheaper rate. If you guys need any while hooking up lines you should be able to get the PT# of the bag below. The other picture shows the difference in the two. The curved base of the correct ones will give you that 360 degree seal where the standard ones fall short. I know some of you may just use hose clams or worm clamps but if you would like to go back with the factory type ties here is a way to get them a much more reasonable price.
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Looking good.
Any estimate of prop hp on the race motahs? |
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Got the power head on the midsection and got all the rigging done. Checked to make sure she trimmed up all the way with out hitting. All the way up she is about an inch and a half to two inches from the transom crown. I put on a cowl from another motor I had so I can paint the one that belongs with this outboard. Plans are a fresh coat of mercury black and new pro xs decals in matching hull blue. After getting it in the water it is sitting on her lines much nicer with the lighter outboard. The swim platform is much higher out of the water. I also have 20 gallons of double oil premix gas in the front of the tank coffin so it will balance even better once I add more fuel. Went 2 hours at idle to 2500 for ring break in at variable RPMs at 25:1 premix ratio. Then went 2 hours between 2000-3200 rpm. Changed the premix to 32:1 due to the plugs were starting to look slightly fowled from the extra oil then ran it 4 more hours between 1500-4500 variable rmp. It is not good to seat rings or break in a motor at a steady rpm. You should keep changing it up and down at different rates at least for the first 6-8 hours till everything gets broke in. Once I got some time on it I started to run it briefly at higher rpms for short periods. The second day out I ran it 30 miles or so and varied rpms and ran it up to 5000-6000 for brief burst. Even took it up to 7000 a few times just because I couldn't help myself. The acceleration with the low pitch prop was awesome. Cant wait to prop it up higher and see what it will really do. The low speed planning seemed to fall off around 18 mph so hopefully when I get more fuel wait in the front it will help with that. Overall the balance going from a heavy 225 3.0 to the lighter 200 2.5 and moving the fuel forward and getting the rear mounted oil tank gone seemed to make a day and night difference. I still have a rear mounted battery that needs to go up front and that will help too. I am really surprised how these hulls respond to balance and weight distribution. A little weight makes a big difference. I was able to raise the motor all the way up where the trim was maxed and surfacing the prop and zero porpoise. Before I would get a little bit if the motor was all the way up and it needed a little lower trim to keep it tracking straight. No tabs yet but Im sure they would really help the lower planning speeds. Over all going to the lighter outboard was a great move. Not to mention I will have more power and better fuel economy now as well. Great trade off.
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