Re: Boat Jewelry
 

Thanks, Here is a picture of what they will look like when mounted.

Under the floor.


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0008-5.jpg


Top Flush Mount.


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0007-5.jpg

In my case no painting of the boat until everything is cut in. I know I will have a screw up someplace [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Boat Jewelry
 

Me too. Where did you get 'em?
Dave

Re: Boat Jewelry
 

Those are from ...Gemlux

After you faint seeing the price :o drop Todd a email (Todds Lures) he is a member of CSC. trr1rigs@att.net And he will get you dealer pricing on anything you want from Gemlux and you will love the new pricing :D :D

Most of my SS came from him.

Re: Boat Jewelry
 

Terry - those are the best looking scupper drains I've ever seen! I also see you got a bow lifting ring like the one on the Unohu, that ties in to the towing eye! That's a clever design - all the vertical load goes in to the strongest part of the hull instead of the deck! Works great if you want to keep boat on a davit! Denny

Re: Boat Jewelry
 

The other thing you forget about when re storing a boat from scratch is the nickle time stuff that adds up.

Hose clamps. $23.00 Just for fuel and water lines and these are just the small clamps


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...hoseclamps.jpg

Re: Boat jewelry
 

Speaking of hose clamps, I've started using some nice solid all-stainless ones I found at Boat Owners Warehouse with raised/embossed threads, which don't cut into the hose like those with the cut out threads! Don't remember the brand but they come in metric sizes, so they may be imported.

Terry, I was also thinking about your scupper drains, and I wondered if they'd do a little better job of draining water off the deck if they were recessed in a well below deck level like those in the 20 ft. hulls? I believe that later (than mine) 20's which had the deck raised a couple inches also had a drain channel around the edge of the deck a little below deck level, with scupper wells that were 2-3" deep instead of 1" deep ones like mine. Denny

Re: Boat jewelry
 

They might but few things you have to understand. If you drop them you most likely will go below water line level.

If you look at the picture you will see a tick mark that will be a 90 degree bulk head right behind and to the side to help them channel water (this will be a stern bulk head and side storage compartment that will run forward).

Last how much water is going to come over board. The boat will sit on a lift during rain storms and I don't think all the extra work will be worth the result. :D

Re: Boat Jewelry
 

True, but I thought you were raising the deck a couple of inches. Looks like those scuppers do extend down quite a bit below the deck though, so I see your point. Do they have any sort of check valve in them? Bob said the transom scuppers in the Unohu would only inflow with a couple of folks standing in one corner of the boat, but he did leave the plugs in all the time.

Re: Boat Jewelry
 

I raised the deck 2 inches. Plus 1/2 for the floor. The drains extend down 1 1/2 inches. So this should put the thru hulls a inch higher than before.

The scuppers do not have a check in them. I plan on crossing the lines and maybe be able to raise the thru hulls a little higher.

The thru hulls have a flapper. On my previous boats a set up like this worked well.

FLAPPER...



http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/Thruhull.jpg

Floor Check
 

I think I have had my floor panels done for a good year or two but hesitate to epoxy them down because I think I am forgetting something...however it is getting closer.

Painted both gas tanks with Tile Clad epoxy paint and put 1/4 inch Azek runners on the bottom.


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0014-5.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0003-5.jpg

When checking the forward tank I found out that it rocked too much (v-type tank) and I had to pull it out and take it back to the welder and put some side tabs on it.

New tabs.



http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0010-3.jpg

Three way valve for 2 tanks.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0002-5.jpg

Misc. fish box, cooler and shower hose connections.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0015-3.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0008-6.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0012-3.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/CIMG0005.jpg

Then I did a little wiring using these neat little wire tie holders.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...01104-1235.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...Trader/xxx.jpg

Now I remembered that I am going to use pedestal type seats, so floor out again and beef up the area of attachment.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0001-6.jpg

Lay floors back down, see if fuel lines fit in openings.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0011-7.jpg

Now doing a final check I discover that the bulk head is in the way of thru bolting the engine box hinges. So a little grinding and sanding...this should work.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...Trader/lll.jpg

Finally check out the Foam Flotation.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0019-3.jpg

Floors should be going attached in the next couple of weeks. So if you see something that stands out that I missed please let me know.

Then it will be back to sanding and fairing again. :rolleyes: :D :D

Re: Floor Check
 

First class work Terry! Looking really good! Sounds like holding off on final deck attachment was a wise decision!

How will you attach the front floor panels that support the seats? (Just thinking out loud here, but since the panel width is much less than length, the vertical reaction loads along the panel edges, required to balance the side loads on the seats when the boat starts rockin & rollin, will be much higher along the sides than on the ends. However you'll also have more surface area along the sides for screws/adhesive, etc. so likely not a problem, especially if you have a substantial cleat along side of hull.)

On the flotation foam - most boats that sink end up capsizing and floating upside down because all the foam is in the bottom. I've always thought that it would be better to use a lot of the space below the cockpit sole for stowage, fish boxes, bait well, etc., and put all the foam up in the coaming/gunnel area so if the worst happens, it'll float upright! There's a fair amount of volume in the coaming on a Seafari. Inflatable air bags might be another option. Denny

Re: Floor Check
 

Denny thanks for the input...to answer your 2 questions I was originally going to just tab the front floor piece down since the sides have a fair amount of solid contact. However your comment gave me and idea and what I will do is bond a cleat down and then attach the front lip to the cleat and then tab.

See pictures below.

Front Lip of floor



http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ndTrader/a.jpg

Cleat



http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ndTrader/b.jpg


Tab and bond

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ndTrader/c.jpg

As far as the flotation where the noodles are very little usable space. However after all the rod holders,cleats and etc. are installed I will cut up a few more noodles and put them under the gunnels....another good idea. Also there should be a ton of space under the rear cap.

With that and hopefully a couple half full tanks the boat should not go to the bottom if a disaster happens. :rolleyes:

Re: 21 Hull #136...Restoration...Started
 

Beer sounds good

Re: Floor Check
 

Hey Terry,

I'm having trouble getting myself oriented on those latest pictures you posted, I guess because they're such close ups. (all I can see is trees and roots, can't see the forest!)

Anyhow, let's see if I can explain my concern a little better. If I understand you correctly it looks like you're planning to secure that front panel that'll hold the pedestal just at the front and rear and maybe at the cleat on the hull side, but what about along the inside above the gas tank/stringer?

I know how small boats can rock and roll when you're offshore in the slop, and I'm sure that 21 will be more stable than my 20. However, my concern is dynamic loads and the twisting moment that pedestal will put into a relatively thin (1/2"?) flat panel that, by itself, is not very stiff in torsion. The loads can get real big really fast! (Connor's comment about his pedestal breaking off at the weld on his last Bahama trip started me thiking about this!) Let's say your pedestal is 3' tall and it's mounted in center of a floor panel that's 4' long and 2' wide, assume that you weigh 200 lbs, and that you get hit by a freak wave or wake while you're trolling along offshore that rocks the boat suddenly enough to impart a snap roll of about 2g's. (I've done a 2g barrel roll in a T-34 and it's not that violent; I'll bet 3 or 4 g's is not unrealistic, and as high as 8-10 g's in fore & aft pitching motions! For reference, USN carrier aircraft are designed for 10g vertical loads during landings, generally considered to be controlled crashes!) A 2g dynamic load means you'll temporarily weigh 400 lbs x 3' = 1,200 ft-lbs of torque going into that floor panel! Let's say the panel is only fastened at the sides, just to simplify things. To balance the 1,200 ft-lb twisting moment the pedestal is putting into the panel with an equal and opposite load along the sides, you'll have to have 600 lbs of load along each side of the panel, pushing up on one side and down on the other. The point is, I don't think it'll break, but it might feel surprisingly "wimbly"! I think it wants to fastened down along all 4 sides. The loads on the pedestal screws will be even higher for the same reasons, but I think you've added enough beef under the panel for that. You might even try mounting a pedestal seat on that panel and temporarily mounting in boat and rocking it around to see if it feels solid enough.

For comparison, I discovered when I installed my galley seat that the entire area under the box where the pedestal originally was (about 2'x2') is 3/4" plywood even though the rest of the deck is 1/2" balsa core, AND it has about 1 layer of glass on the bottom and 2 layers on the top AND it's laying on top of TWO stringers that are about 1' apart! Good Luck, Denny

Re: Floor Check
 

I guess I did not explain my self very well.

The floor will be attached on all 4 sides.

The hull side will be bonded to the cleat with epoxy and then will be fiberglassed taped to the hull and floor.

The front will be bonded to the cleat and taped to the floor.

The center part will be bonded and taped to the riser and the right side of the floor (port side) and left side (starboard)of the floor will be bonded and taped together by the wider floor brace.

The back part rest on a bulkhead and will get the same treatment.

Whew I hope that is clear. One thing my wife says is that I over engineer everything. So attaching the floor is a big concern ;)

Re: Floor Check
 

When it comes to mounting a pedestal seat, those things can't be too solid! I suspect Connor would agree! :D
Sounds like that panel will be well secured!
Denny

Re: Floor Check
 

VERY MUCH AGREE!!!

I'm scratching my head now trying to figure out how to do a permanent repair that will be strong enough. When mine broke, it split a 3/4 inch teak plank, broke a mounting screw and pulled a few more out of the fiberglass deck, not to mention what happened to the pedestal. Amazing what you can jury rig with enough screws, teak scraps and duct tape.

All that is going to wait a few months. The boat is finally cleaned repacked and put away. I don't even what to look at it for a month or so, much less work on it.

Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

Well the time was coming when I needed to get my power plant together. Placement of batteries, blower, scupper holes and the such dictated that I make a decision.

Besides this will give me real motivation to get the rest done and get out and run this puppy.

Mercury had a real good deal going so this is what I ordered up and should get it installed by the first of the year.



STROKER


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...er/Stroker.jpg


It should make the 21 Cruise nicely.

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

That should do it! Is that an EFI version?

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

NICE!!!!! pm sent

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

EFI with 350 Ponies. :D

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

That should make it go FAST!

Its also heavy, about 1100 lbs(I think) with prop. How does that compare to the weight of the engines the hull was designed for? Any balance issues?

Is that a bored out 350 or a bigger block?

Connor

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

I think it's a small block with a stroker crank in it, maybe from a 400 ci small block? Only downside I can think of is the combination of short Chevy rods + longer stroke = more side load on pistons. The 400" engines weren't very durable because of that, but maybe the 383 has longer rods or shorter stroke than the 400. It's a pretty popular swap among hot rodders, so it's durability must be better than the 400.

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

Gee Terry, I think your boat will be fast :cool:

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

It is a small block. Nice choice Terry. When I was rebuilding my 25 the mechanic said that engine would be a good choice should I be unhappy with the amount of HP the current engine has. But I'm happy for now :cool:

strick

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

Thanks guys !

This is probably to much info. but for us gear heads here you go.

The original 350 uses a B&S of 4.00 x 3.48

The new small block is 377 with a B&S of 4.0 x 3.75.

The stroker is a small block with a B&S of 4.030 x 3.75.

Weight is actually 12 pounds lighter than a 350. More aluminum.

The total package is approx. 300 # more than a straight 6. However I don't think that will change the balance to much since the boat was offered with 2 straight sixes and that would more than offset the small block. Any way with a extra tank up front and trim tabs I should be fine.

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

Nice. Terry, you thinking of going into ocean racing? 350 ponies ought to make that 21 scoot!
Dave

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

NAW, I just want to get out to the Grouper holes in a hour or less (35 miles off shore).

In the old days of street drag racing we would call this set up a SLEEPER! It might be fun to dust off few go fast boats with a hole shot :D

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

I think the "21" was a sleeper from the very beginning! Moesly blew off many of the bigger 1000 hp boats with a 21 running twin 100 hp Mercs! :cool:

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

Been lurking for a while watching your 21 come together. Although not a SeaCraft, I have a 20 foot Bertram project going through the same restoration.

Where did you end up picking up the 383 stroker?

I have been watching www.marinepowerservice.com and Doug Russel but have not seen any price movement.

I would be interested in hearing where you purchased the pwer package from.

Best of luck!

Ian Upton

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

I have done a lot of shopping. 2 things were of importance to me; Service and Price. Hard to find both.

I found a dealer in Fort Myers Fl.(that is about 70 miles from me). He runs a real nice tight shop and has loads of experience with Mercury and Offshore racing boats. His price was very competitive, but his knowledge and patience with my concerns were excellent.

Pricing was in the same ballpark as Marine Power.

I just wanted some one close by so if I had a problem it would not be a hassle getting work done. Plus when I get the motor in he said I will give you 1/2 dozen props to try and we will get you dialed in.

If you want any more info. send me a pm.

Do you have your Bertram listed on any other sight? I am sure the guys here would like to take a look.

Re: Stroke it. Stroke it. STROKER !
 

""Do you have your Bertram listed on any other sight? I am sure the guys here would like to take a look.
""

I would! I love those boats!! There are a few here in Chas. SC that are gorgeous!

Ugh just one more challange !
 

Well one thing I learned so far on this adventure of "Restoring" an old boat is to quote Thomas Edison...


"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work"



After getting the 21 to the dealer to install the engine package I learn that the "old stringer mounts" are to narrow and not tall enough for the " new mounting system".

So he tells me what needs to get done and I go and get the boat.

Normally this is should not be a big deal, but I live on bridge-less barrier island (I know it's tough :cool: ) and must take the ferry back and forth. Besides being a PIA getting it on and off it costs extra $$. Oh well the price we pay for our toy's.

So here is the deal.

Transom Cut Out




http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0026-1.jpg


Thickness 2 1/8

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0027-2.jpg

New transom assembly


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0019-4.jpg

Mock up of new motor mount

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0020-3.jpg



Both sides


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0021-3.jpg

Raw glass and epoxy


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0024-1.jpg


Paint and looking good again


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...CIMG0023-1.jpg




Next week back to the dealer and hopefully everything will be on track :D

Re: Ugh just one more challange !
 

Looks great! However that seems like a lot of crap for a nickel. Seems like the dealer could of got some heavy gauge (3/8")3"x3" stainless angle and just through bolted through the side of the engine stringer and then bolt the engine to the angle. I do agree that the way you did it looks original. :cool:

Re: Ugh just one more challange !
 

Hey Terry,

If it was EASY, everyone would have an old restored SeaCraft! :D Hang in there, it's looking really nice! You're just about to get to the fun part . . . installing all that new boat jewelery! Denny

Re: Ugh just one more challange !
 

I agree on both parts. There was a reason he did not want to do the L bracket thing and for the life of me I can't remember why. Oh well worked out for the best any way.

Sneak Preview
 

Just Back And Lookin' Strong

Well after some delays and other misc. stuff I finally got the boat back from the Merc Dealer.

I had the dealer install the engine package, the shifter and the steering. This was the best money spent so far. Very reasonable and no deep learning curve ;)

While the boat was on the trailer it was a good time to get the thing double bunked and to have a bow catcher installed.

Now at least I will have a few things to do in between fairing and sanding. :D :D

Stroke it baby

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10323-1557.jpg


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10323-1557.jpg

Just had to put in the gauge's and see what they looked like.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10323-1627.jpg

Now the Tilt Steering

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10323-1628.jpg

Shifter

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10323-1629.jpg

Bow Catcher

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10323-1621.jpg

Double Bunk

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10323-1621.jpg



This weekend project will be to draw some reference lines on the hull and get all the weight in so I can drop it in the water on Monday and see where the water line sets...then I can cut in the scupper holes :D :D

Re: Sneak Preview
 

Man this thing is going to be bad ass. Wish I could come across one of these to be restored. Keep up the good work.

Re: Sneak Preview
 

Looks awesome! Can't wait to see the finished product.

Re: Sneak Preview
 

Looking strong, indeed. That Stroker looks Grrreat! ...

So does the dash. Did you re-chrome the instrument panel or what? What other gauges will join the set? Brand?
What steering package did you go with - apparently compatible w/the old wheel?

What are you plans for electronics?

Just around the bend now... keep them updates comin' ;)