Re: Volvo Trim Blades
 

Terry,
Added fore and aft to my favorites list. Thanks again for the education. Still, vertical protrusions from the transom resulting in less drag seems counterintuitive. Never saw that right angle mount for a drill before. Volvo says the QL is good to 50 knots. Is that fast enough for the 21? Sounds like you've been running it. The transom enclosure looks good.

Re: Volvo Trim Blades
 

I'm thinking that's fast enough for any SeaCraft......jeeeeez.

Re: Volvo Trim Blades
 

I think Bones hit 62 with that worked Merc. I think it dyno`d at 230 something. That and 12x 18 tabs leaves little hull in the water.

Cheers,
notsofastbagman

Re: Volvo Trim Blades
 

50 knots is 57.54 MPH. Sounds like it could be close. I think the flames add 1-2 MPH.

Storage Drawer
 

Everything being done on the 21 is sort of non descriptive...drilling holes patching holes drilled wrong and sanding.

Today I was going to do another test run on the boat :D however it has been raining all day here in Sunny FLA. :mad:

So I did a small project that give you the sense of accomplishment and does not take to much time and the results are exactly what you expected.

Needed a drawer for the phone wallet and misc. junk...


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10707-1448.jpg

Cutting in a hole in a place that I filled a hole before [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10707-1509.jpg


Insert the frame

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10707-1518.jpg

Drawer


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10707-1519.jpg

Just what I wanted :D


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10707-1519.jpg

Still Plenty of room under V-Bunk


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10707-1520.jpg

Still need to get a few thru hulls in and then take it all apart so I can finish up before getting it primed and painted.

Hardware $$
 

When restoring a boat (actually) rebuilding a boat one forgets about the Misc. $$ spent.

$35.00

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...719-1536-1.jpg

This is for rod holders, fuel and water fills only. :o

Re: Hardware $$
 

Truer words have never been spoken. The odds and ends can easily wind up being 30-40% of the project.

Re: Hardware $$
 

100's of trips to the local hardware store for sand paper. acetone,gloves, ss bolts,screws, mold building supplies, and much much more.....Oh and I almost forgot to figure in the cost of fuel for all that wasted time driving around looking for stuff :D

strick

Re: Hardware $$
 

x2!!!

Re: Hardware $$
 

Yeah, the SS fasteners add up quickly, especially if you buy them at the local hardware store or Home Depot. And likely as not, they'll be 18-8 stainless, not the 316 stainless you want for salt exposure. I try to anticipate the fasteners I'm going to need and order them from Marsh Fasteners. Even with shipping, they're less than half what I'd pay locally.
Dave

Re: Hardware $$
 

Those are great prices...I wish I would of known about them earlier. Most of the time I am just doing trial fits with odds and ends, then go to the store for the real thing. Usually don't need them NOW.

Oh well they are booked marked and when the need arises I will definitely use them.

Re: Hardware $$
 

I have posted this link before, but well worth
the look for that hard to find stainless!

Bosun Supply

See ya, Ken

More trials and more holes !
 

Last week Sharon (wife) and I did the final test run on the boat to check out scuppers and bait well drainage. The good news is that the boat ran great for our 2 hour run. Not so good news was that the bait well overflow did not work so back to the drawing board...the pictures to follow will tell the story :D

In all this testing I have held off on glassing in the 2 rear sections of the floor, because I was not sure on the scuppers and the over flow on the bait well. Good thing I waited.

Original scupper set up...flush mount in the floor and then out the transom...even though I raised the floor 2 inches, the scupper was almost the same distance below the floor and did not allow a safe drain.



http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10524-1442.jpg

So what I did is basically the traditional way...straight thru the transom and out...this way it was above the water line and the flappers keep out any back wash.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10713-1401.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10713-1401.jpg

Trial fit with out floor

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10630-1613.jpg






Looking down you can see the short connecting tube from thru hull to rear inside transom cover.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10701-1151.jpg

This shows the trial fit, so cover will be flush to floor, but you should get the idea.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...701-0953-1.jpg

The next challenge was the overflow of the bait well...since the bait tank is below the floor it was doubtful it would drain, but I thought just maybe...well it neutralized out, no drain out but no drain in. Soooo I decided that a dry well with a bilge would work, and it does :D

2 side dry well using bulkhead and stringer...hold about 6 gallons and pump out real quick at approx. 1 gallon.

Template.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10717-1407.jpg

5200 into place...overflow and end of day drain, so I eliminated one thru hull and one sea-cock. So I think this was a win...



http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10718-1249.jpg

Bilge pump in dry well

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10802-1456.jpg

So after all this you would think drilling in rod holders would be a walk in the park :mad: It seems that Mr. Moesly did not make the gunnels as wide as they should of been...I think he even mentioned to me if he was doing the 21 again, the gunnels would of been wider...

Outline of rod holder.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10710-1445.jpg

Ruff die grind out.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10710-1445.jpg

Trial fit, and now needs to be faired in..

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10710-1445.jpg

OK so now I need something easy.

Dash :D Bilge alarm and clock..


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10729-1455.jpg

I feel real good now so the 2 back floor panels have been epoxied in and now just a little more fairing and on to the next challenge... ;)


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...10802-1503.jpg

Re: More trials and more holes !
 

Just keep at it...if it were easy then everyone would be doing it ;)

strick

How To Rebuild A Windshield Frame
 

I posted this link in the general section just as a test...as I stated there this is not my work. How to make a boat windshield
Just reference.

However let me share with you HOW TO REBUILD A FRAME :eek:

Two long years ago 3rdday rescued a derelict 21 Moesly in the Keys. I gave Brian a call an asked if there was a windshield frame on the boat and could I use it, to make a mold. Brian said yes but it was real ROUGH and just keep it.

Below is the before and after. The sad thing is I did this last year when I had time during the doldrums and now a year later I am thinking this is not going to work for me on the boat.

Oh well another learning experience. :mad:

Pictures of it in rough shape...

Part 2
 

Not sure why but have to check why you can only upload 5 pictures at a time.

Rehab with epoxy and fairing compound.

Part 3
 

Already to make a female mold..Sprayed with duratech. A lot of prep time but hey it was a learning experience. :cool:

Looking good Terry ... So much better than what you started with!
Looking forward to Part 4.

Important Equipment Installed
 

While waiting for the weather to stop blowing and raining so I could spray some primer on the inside of the boat, I thought I would get the V-Bunk area in shape.

Here is what the V area looked liked when I got the boat.

Early 70's Carpet Look :p

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...IMG_2869-1.jpg


Over Nighter Set Up.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...IMG_2895-1.jpg


What I wanted was the "Sportsman" set up. That was to remove the bunk area aft of the V. I got some measurements from McGillicuddy and made this enclosure.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...11009-1623.jpg

This was a good design by Mr. M. Now I can open the enclosure and make the V in to a small bunk.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...11009-1623.jpg


However according to the wife I now have installed the most important piece of equipment on the boat. :rolleyes:

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...11009-1628.jpg

Now you see it and now you don't

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...11009-1623.jpg


Hopefully the weather looks better this week and I will be able to spray the old girl some time this week with primer :)

What Do You Think?
 

The main struggle since I got this boat is what to do with the windshield...as you know from previous posts I have embarked on rebuilding the original frame and gave up on it.

After serious counseling :rolleyes: with the only other complete 21 Seacraft owner...McGillicuddy we both decided that the original set up is (sorry Carl) ugly and not user friendly. So this design will hinge the center panel so it will open to port. If I get real good I may have the starboard and port front panels hinge up for air flow.

So after some card board cut and paste I have come up with something that I think will work.

My plan now is to get some cheap pine and do all the cutting routing and fitting first. Then after that is done, go out and buy some white oak and do the final in that. Seal the oak and paint it white or black.

If any of you out there especially the wood workers let me know how you would approach this. Joints ? Fasteners? General help.

Also I have thick skin, so if something does not look right let it out now.:D

The pictures are pretty accurate, but dealing with card board it may look a little warped.

Template for base

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...11109-1409.jpg


Cardboard ruff shape

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...11105-1459.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...11109-1145.jpg

Cut out to approx frame size

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...11113-1532.jpg

Now some photo shop for color Black and White

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ader/black.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ader/white.jpg

Need to get this done before the paint goes on.:eek:

Terry,
I've been kicking around some ideas for a wood windshield frame. I want to use simple joinery that can be made using just a table saw and router and still be strong enough that the corners will take a beating without coming apart. I still have to mock up a corner joint to test my idea. Maybe I can do that between now and Thanksgiving and we can look at it if you're able to stop by on the way home. The part I haven't completely figured out is how to make operable sashes like the original Seafari windshield has.

Dave

Sounds like a plan.

Here is some information I got off a wooden boat forum.


I'd think something around an inch thick x 1 1/16 or 1/8th wide, would be minimum.

Depending on your skill level, box joint corners with bronze or stainless screws in the corners to lock them would be nice. Alternately, the same size stock with a glazing groove in the center could be used, and edge screw the corners ( the stock would be just mitered corners, like a picture frame). You could set the glass in a glazing rabbet, but, the amount of space left for a retaining stop would be so small that you would be lucky to get 1-2 years on them.

The thinnest laminated glass that I can get I think, is 7/32" thick. A rubber boot around the edge would secure the glass in the frame ( if using a groove). Possibly could bed the glass in the groove with either butyl rubber caulk or maybe an elastomeric caulking ( careful with those, the squeeze out won't take stain ).

Wood frame windshields can look pretty nice, but they can't be overly bulky. Don't want the "home made look ".

Then to answer your other question on sashes, here is what Thompson boats did for there opening.


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...der/photo3.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...der/photo5.jpg

Looks good !

Terry,
I haven't settled on glass thickness or type yet, so I haven't figured out how beefy my frame needs to be. What were the original glass windshields, laminated or tempered? How thick? Maybe I'll model it after automotive application and go laminated in front and tempered on the sides. I haven't done my research yet, so I'm just thinking out loud.

My thinking on the frame joints is to cut a glazing groove in the frames and then use a combination butt/mortise and tenon joint at the corners. The glazing groove in one piece also serves as a mortice and you cut a tenon on the other piece that mates with the groove. Then hold the joint together with a SS screw or two. There are still some assembly issues I need to think through, but that's where I am now.
Dave

"My thinking on the frame joints is to cut a glazing groove in the frames and then use a combination butt/mortise and tenon joint at the corners."

I was leaning to butt and biscuit joining...not unlike mortise and tenon.

Let me know what you find out on the glass. If you go to plexi things change because of weight.

Yes. A biscuit joint wold do the trick. There are several reasons I'm leaning toward a mortise and tenon:

* Allows me to cut a glazing groove in all my stock before I cut it to length.

* The tenon fills the glazing groove at the end of the adjoining piece, so there's no gap showing at the joints.

* Minimizes the potential for movement in a joint that is mechanically fastened, not glued. I want to be able to take the frame apart again if I have to replace a broken pane.

I called my contact at a local glass company I've worked with. He thought my idea of using laminated glass for the windshield and tempered for the side panels was a safe one. Laminated is about $13/sf, tempered is about $7. Pretty big difference in cost, but I don't want to be picking little bits of glass out of my eyes if I hit an albatross at 40 mph.

Tempered would be 1/4". Laminated would be slightly thicker, like .31 inch instead of .25". The grooves for both types of sashes could be cut the same width and the difference made up in sealant. He recommended a Silicone sealant, but I told him I'm planning to coat my frame in epoxy, so it will be like bonding to plastic. If you're planning on glazing before coating the frame, the sealant type might be different.

Now that you've got me thinking about it again, I may run some wood through the table saw to mock up a joint and see how it looks and functions.

Dave

Terry,
I came home from work this afternoon and mocked up a couple joints, one acute angle and one obtuse, to show what I'm talking about. These were made with a table saw, power miter, wood chisel and drill.

Obtuse angle prep:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3973.jpg

Acute angle prep:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3972.jpg

Obtuse angle assembled:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3974.jpg

Acute Angle assembled:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3976.jpg

The whole thing:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3975.jpg

And the glazing groove. Obviously, screw placement is critical:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_3977.jpg

I made the glazing groove 5/16" wide by 3/8"deep. It should probably be a little deeper. The stock I used was 3/4" x 1 1/2". I think that's going to be big enough. The joints were pretty strong. Add some glass and sealant, and I think they'll do nicely.

Dave

If that was just a quick one when you take your time and do one it should look terrific.

As they say a picture is worth a thousand words...When you were talking M&T I just could not make the connection. I was so use to looking at the Thompson windshield that I could not understand the glass channel. Now I see what you were talking about.
The Thompson laid in the glass more like a picture frame there would be advantages to both installations...hopefully we can discuss in a few weeks.

Yep. My first ideas used a frame with an applied glazing stop like you're talking about. Any way I drew it it looked either too bulky or too weak.

The frame with the glazing groove is strong enough, but presents some logistical issues with sequence of assembly and installation. For instance, If one fixed pane breaks sometime down the road, can you disassemble the frame enough to replace the glass without taking the whole frame apart or removing it from the boat?

I was hoping to conceal most of the fasteners, but that may be problematic. Virtually all of the glass panels taper towards the top. The front panels are trapezoids, the side panels are triangular. So how do you replace a broken pane without taking at least one side frame off. But the side frame is attached to the side frame of the adjoining pane, so the process dominoes. It might be possible to sequence installation to solve that initially, but I want to be able to make repairs without starting from scratch. Still have to solve that before I'm ready to move ahead with this design.

Dave

Maybe we are over thinking this whole thing...I have owned a boat basically since 1975 most of them had a 4 or 5 panel windshield and I never had to replace a pane. :rolleyes:

My problems lay in not the construction as much as how do I handle the curving of the dash (were I plan on placing the frame). Plus the center panel is rectangular and the port and stbd. panes are trapezoid. :confused:

Right now I wish I was in Maine hunting down some of those Master Craftsmen, that have been doing this for the last hundred or so years...:D

Guilty as charged. I over think EVERYTHING! :D

Uncle Boo what happened to your post?

I didn't read Blue Heron's post well. I was going to suggest an applied stop, then realized he already mentioned that. I would have been wasting space.

Wind Shield...on going saga
 

After doing my cardboard mock up and deciding that a wood windshield would be the way to go here is my update!

The next step after card board was to see if I could tame down some of the sharp angles of the design and incorporate into the rounding of the old base.

Unlike the Seafari models that are flat my set up is all round.

First step was to cut a small wood mock up and then do the modeling clay fairing to see if it would work.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_0043.jpg

After being satisfied then it was on to flatten part of the dash so the side frame would fit tighter.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_0072.jpg

After that was done then it was on to a full frame mock up in wood. The hard part of this whole deal is that there are compound angles on every piece. For example the out side of the windshield sits on a 5 degree inward leaning deck. So the bottom out side panels had to be cut 5 in the opposite direction to get them to sit vertical. All together there 6 different angle compound joints. Except for the middle panel the are no 90 degree joints.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_0156.jpg

The next part was to get all the gaps right and to soften up the hard angle look. The way I did that was to cut filler pieces with a 2 inch radius for the inside corners.

Without

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_0181.jpg

With

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_0176.jpg

The next thing was to clean up the inside joints and to add strength.

Before

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...2_edited-1.jpg

After

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...3_edited-1.jpg

Inside view

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...4_edited-1.jpg

Now I think the Windshield is looking softer and fits the boat well.

Notice that the starboard side was not rounded for comparison view.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_0175.jpg

What is left to do now is to make attaching points and to thin down the center panel so it matches the width of the other two. Fair in the corners and
then break down this mockup (which is done in pine) and make a paper pattern with all my notes for angles sizes and so on. Then go off shopping for White Oak.

The final windshield will be constructed when the boat is in the paint shop, so I know I will forget something if not written down.:eek:

Parting view...I forgot to mention that the center section will open to Port.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_0179.jpg

Very, very nice!!! Outstanding detail!

I got a kick out of the last picture...."the knife"!!

"the knife"....yea that parting shot is SICK. This is going to be one incredible boat. :)

I like it! Gives the boat an appropriate vintage look. Did you figure out how you're going to do the groove for the glass?
Dave

NICE work Terry! I'm sure those compound angles were a challenge! That frontal view is classic Moesly 21! It's the best riding small boat I've ever been on and it's no wonder he dominated the offshore powerboat outboard racing class and made a lot of the bigger inboards look real bad! Denny

Yum Yum.
Cheers,
GFS