Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

I have a 82 23ft Sea Craft Sceptre with a single 200 Yamaha. The boat sits bow heavy, the tank has been moved back as much as possible, this has helped but it still sits bow heavy. I just wanted to make sure that this was normal for my year and model boat with the single engine. I saw a late 80s 23 walk around cuddy tracker Sea Craft and it sat good in the water. It appears that the engineers designed the cuddy models to be equipped with the I/O. [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Boat Boat[/LIST]
[ December 16, 2003, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: lost2a6 ]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Seems like a good candidate for TWIN 200 Yamahas...

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Got a pic of your's being bow heavy?

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Yea, I would love to put twins on it, it just isn't in the budget right now. With the boat being bow heavy it does make for a very good ride. I just hate it when I wash down the deck and the water runs to the bow.I have thought about putting a bracket on it, then one day buying a 250, as it is also slighty under powered with the 200.
John, If you'll click on my first post where it says Boat, it should come up, although you can't really tell in those pictures.
Thanks Steve

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

I have an '82 also and it sits bow down, although we easily fixed most of the problem this past season by moving some things out of the cabin and into the bilge area (removed the in-deck livewell and created a storage area). My boat was originally rigged with twin 200's and carries 144 gallons of fuel. Now that it's got a single 225 Yamaha, it sits lower in the bow.

By the looks of the pictures, at rest it doesn't sit too low in front.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

I know a dealer who had SeaCraft from mid 70's
into early 80's and this was a real problem on
the early CSY hulls. Water would collect in the
bow area and had to install bilge pumps there. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Glass in 150-200 lbs of lead weight in the stern. It's very small for it's weight. I have 200 lbs in (1) plastic milk carton. I bought 250 lbs of lead from a metal scrap place years ago for $75 ( to weigh the trunk of a BMW down in the snow ).

Car's gone. Now I have a life long supply of lead for sinkers for the melting pot ( make that 10 life times worth ! )

If I were in your predicament, and it bothered me, I would figure out a way to properly glass in lead. It won't rust. And if thought-out well and done properly - you could remove it any time...

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Lost2,
Mine sat heavy fwd too with a single. Remember that the boat is rated for 400hp in twins origionally and in the 70's and early 80's twins were common even on smaller boats. It sits a little better with the twins. I think its just one of those things you gotta live with. It never seemed to hinder my performance and I even put my batteries up front too.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Thanks guys for all of the replies.

Madmax: That is interesting that your boat sits even more bow heavy with the bracket, Your bracket must be buent. If I was going to do this then I guess that I would need to pick a bracket that has absolutely no buency. My e-mail is lost2a6@cableone.net

abl1111:I have thought of adding weight. I tried doing this when I re did the transom. I went with less wood and more glass. I ended up using almost 15 gal. of resin. This helped some with the addition of the jack plate. It wouldn't take much weight, I can sit on the engine and the water will run out good. I weigh 170 lbs. I just hate to add weight to an already heavy ass under powered boat. In a way I hate the idea of twins because of double the maintance and the fear of burning more fuel. I get 2.3 MPG right now at 30 MPH. (4200-4300 RPM) I think what the problem is the front deck is soo heavy with it's ¾” plywood and 3/8” glass on top and bottom of the wood.
Again thanks for all of the replys, I really wanted to make sure that I didn't have water trapped some where.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

I have a 82 also with a bracket and full transom. Since a put the bracket on it sits even more bow down. It rides great. I have a 2001 225 fitch with a armstrong bracket. I have always put my motor as high as possible to lessen drag and get max rpms. Send me e mail address and i will send photo.

mad max

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

This is kind of a "redneck" fix for your problem.. but you hate when you wash the boat down and the water runs forward.. . and if you sit on the motor it runs out and your 170 pounds.... Well 170lbs is 85 quarts..I had a boat with the same problem and what I did was to fill my 96 quart bait cooler with water after I washed the boat down.. added some soap and bleach and let it sit till I use the boat again. I put a 18" piece of hose over the drain and moved the plug to the end of the hose. When I used the boat I just pulled the plug and it drained out the scupper and I had a nice clean and good smell'in cooler and a boat that sat nice..

[ December 18, 2003, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: PipeDreamsMarine ]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">IMO your not underpowered at all. My father's Sceptre runs 30 MPH at 4500 RPM with a 225 Yam turning a 15x15 SS prop on a jack plate. Maybe you don't carry as much fuel or turn a different prop, but it sounds like you're doing well with that single 200.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Scott, The 200 is strong for a 200. The cruise speed is being full of fuel 144 gal. The less fuel that I have causes the cruise speed and top speed to go down. She'll do 40 on GPS full of fuel. The only reason that I can come up with is the extra fuel in the stearn of the boat is creating more bow lift. I'm swinging a 17 pitch prop, at WOT trimed out just befor cavatation it's turning about 5400. The reason why I say that it is slightly underpowered is when the boat is loaded down with people fishing gear etc. I really have to lean on it to plane off, also I'm just use to a faster boat.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Steve,
That's interesting that your cruise and WOT fall when you have less fuel [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] . Our boat has virtually no difference in cruise/WOT regardless of fuel load, which is the opposite of your situation. We've run the boat full with 5 people, 1/2 with 2 people, less than 1/4 with one person - all scenarios produce the same speed, give or take 1/2 MPH. Strange.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Another Redneck answer. It seems all of your ideas don't really fix the problem or really diagnose what the problem is. How could the '79 boat sit stern heavy or level and the 82 boat sit bow heavy. The problem must be water somehow trapped foward to which some of you alluded too. To find out if there is, you must first borrow a stethoscope. Even a soup can may work. Put the boat on the trailer. While your buddy drives the truck with the trailer behind it slowly on deserted road or parking lot. Your job is to be in the cabin with the stethoscope listening for sloshing water sounds. When your buddy taps the breaks, you will hear water sloshing around if it's in there. How you get the water out is for you to dream up. [img]images/icons/blush.gif[/img] Fixing the problem is much better than compensating the problem.

I could have put 200 pounds of lead shot in my forward anchor locker of my cc for my stern heavy problem but instead I put on a flotation bracket.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

I bet if you put a new 250HP Suzuki(580#)on it, that would help solve the problem. I have an 89 23WA and I sit greatin the water. I would try a few bags of lead shot just to get it evened out if it bothers you that much.

[ December 18, 2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Gary ]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Briguy, that’s a great idea I haven't thought of that, however the only place that I could see where water would be trapped is in the strangers. From what I can tell they are full of foam, I guess that they could be water logged. If I do have water trapped somewhere then it seems like it should be a lot of it. [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] I just had the tank out and I looked the best that I could for possible water entrapment.
Gary: I meet a guy from Gulf Shores AL who had an 88 or 89 WA with an old 225 Evinrude, it too sat great. The only thing that I can come up with is the top deck on the WA isn't as heavy as the non-WA models. This is providing that mine doesn't have water trapped. It also appears that the driving station in the WA model is more toward the stern, which could contribute to a better-balanced boat.

[ December 19, 2003, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: lost2a6 ]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Steve,
Aside form adding another motor or more weight in the stern there isn't much you can do. I doubt very seriously that you have a stringer problem in that boat. The box stringers are built in such a way that they don't trap water and they sit quite a bit higher than the keel line of the boat. Water intrusion just isn't likely. I kept my boat in the water. So, for peace of mind I installed an automatic bilge pump forward under the cabin floor with an access plate (py Plate) above it. Solved the problem. As or your boat running better loaded than empty, got no clue?

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Steve, I hear you. I had the choice of the WA or cuddy when I bought mine new. I don't think there is that much difference in the seating location. The Cuddy Cabin I looked at had low deck all the way to the cabin door, I have a raised step, about 6-7 inches, with a forward fish box. Lousy Idea, as they drained it into the bilge.
I think the reason you are running better loaded is the fact that the extra weight is toward the stern and it raises the bow up so you are not plowing/pushing so much water.
Maybe the fuel tank is too far forward? Mine sits center deck behind the step, about 115 gallons.
I wish I could offer more, just keep thinking about the problem and you will figure it out. I still like the idea of the 580# suzy [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[ December 19, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Gary ]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

I hesitate posting this because I forget the details of how it got wet ....or what they thought caused it ...... But one of the yards up here that does restoration work did have a 23 "full" of water ..... I do remember them saying they had never seen anything like it as they claimed they captured "many" 5 gallon pails full of water...supposedly a lot on the ground also ....Yet at the same time I would agree with 70'sboat that this isn’t a common occurrence...

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Gary, I have moved the tank as far back as possible. It's about 1'6" from the transom, however if I remember correctly the tank is about 8ft in length (144gal).
Scott: That's interesting, if you can remember any details then please let me know or possibly the boat yard in which you are referring to. In the stern of our boats there is a drain tube going through the stringer. This could clog up causing water to be trapped on the outside of the stringer, however this is not the case with my boat as I have had all of that section cut out when replacing the transom.

[ December 19, 2003, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: lost2a6 ]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Perhaps Inspector Jacques Clouseau can be of service to you outboard boyz.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Wow, this is a popular topic surprisingly. I too sit bow heavy with my 88 cuddy. It's extremely sensitive to gear in the cuddy. After I come off plane it's alarming sometimes how much it settles in and the ass pops up. I have noticed after washing it down and lowering the tongue jack on the trailer, if I get in the cabin I can hear water flowing back forward. I don't think it's a lot maybe 4-5 gallons tops. I also figure extra stern weight involving twins are the answer. At least thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Lost2a6,

When we removed the tank on my 23CC, we became conserned that the stringers held water becase the screws holding the tank hatch went into the stringers and the seal had been comprised, probably for years. We drilled some 1/2" weep holes in the bottom of each stringer in the rear. There was a lot of water. I took someones suggestion and drilled 4 - 2" dia. holes low in the stringers and left a shop vac running in each hole for 1/2 hour each and probably netted 10 gallons of water, plus maybe another 5 or so by gravity. That's at least 100 pounds.

The foam around the tank was saturated as was the plywood in the fuel tank cover panel (which we re-cored). There's another 20 pounds.

In the case of a center console, this may back fire and may tend to tilt the boat ass-ward slightly, but we'll see this spring.

I agree with Brian that water may be trapped forward as well and should be investigated, even if you have to drill some holes.

I don't like the idea of adding weight unless its the last resort.

[ December 19, 2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Otto Cuyler ]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Yes,indeed this is a popular subject. I hate to say this but reading all the previous remarks it appears this problem is inherent to the post Potter era boats? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

I agree with Briguy and Otto and maybe I'm wrong but these boats should not be sitting bow heavy and should not holding water [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Bottom line is if there is water in your bilge or in the stringers you have got a problem. Adding weight to the stern doesn't fix it. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I have posted before that my stringers have a nylon rope within them, that runs the length of the stringer that acts as a "wick" (like in a candle) and any moisture the builds up within will follow the wick and drain out (rear of stringer) in the bilge. I have seen this system in the Haptner flats and Ocean Master boats. I'm curious if Strick, Rich or Scott have seen these wicks also in their 70's boat as they have been down and dirty below the decks ???

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Capt Chuck .... This is the drain that I have... Bad picture .. in the black circle.... but I "thought" it was to drain any water on the outboard side of the stringer ??? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] does it look familiar? I've not had the deck open back there to see where it goes ....

I'm not sure how water would get there (outboard side of stringer) other than through the vents...maybe .condensation

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...2/fa41364f.jpg

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Scott

Yea, I got that tube also both sides. Your right it drains water from the ouside cavity to the centerline bilge area. The "Wick" shoud be just forward of that tube on the outside of the stringer in the cavity. You should be able to reach in there where that wire is coming out of?
I almost cut (wick) mine off until I found out what is was. Should be about 3/4" dia and sticking out appox 4" or so... Let me know if you discover it [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Capt Chuck- No wick in mine.... I checked twice now and all I see is foam and a rigging channel dug into the foam that goes to the CC area. If it is in there it is buried under the foam as I cannot see it. What year is your boat?

Strick

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Boy you guys are going to make me start drilling holes in my boat. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] When I cut about a foot of my stringer out for the transome replacement, I don't recall seeing any water, just solid foam. However the foam did seem moist. I too had the holes in the stringers where the tank was screwed to it, and my deck had been leaking for some time. Does anyone have any pics of what the stringer system looks like with the deck removed? The rear is narrow then some where along the line it appears to get wide by the time it reaches the bow. Would a moister meter tell if I had water trapped within the stringers? I don't believe that I have the rope coming from the inside on the stringers on my boat as I have seen the inside from one end to the other.

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Strick

Built Dec 1978

Lost

Your boat doesn't look unusal in the pics but I'm not familiar with the cabin style. I'd ask Finster or that that70boat for advise. If Water is trapped you got to get it out [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[ December 20, 2003, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: capt chuck steele ]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Thanks for the smorgasbord of info guys. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Bow Heavy Sea Craft
 

Don't ask Finster, he likes to "do it in the transom" Let's hope he finishes his house better that he finished his SeaCraft...

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