To bracket or not to bracket?
 

I just got the specs on the Hermco bracket (see links from this site) I was wondering anyone out there have any input on before and after ride, speed comparisons. Do you recommend the conversion or stay put. I know it looks great but is the $$$$ worth it soley for cosmesis? The boat is a 79 23' Sceptre with a single 250 outboard.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

HA MARKDPB
THAT IS A REAL INDIVIDUAL PREFERENCE QUESTION. I HAVE A 23 CENTER CONSOL THAT I RE DID THE TRANSOM. I HAD A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO CLOSE OFF THE BACK AND GO WITH A BRACKET. I DON’T LIKE MOST BRACKETS FOR A FEW REASONS FIRST THEY ARE BOLTED ONTO THE BOAT, IF THE BRACKET IS LIKE THE CONTENDERS (PART OF THE BOAT) THAN THAT’S OK FOR ME, I JUST DON’T LIKE THAT AFTERTHOUGHT APPROACH. THE OTHER REASON WHY I DON’T LIKE BRACKETS IS THAT IT HAS YOU FISHING 5’ IN FRONT OF THE PROP. THERE IS NOTHING THAT TICKS ME OFF MORE THAT LOOSING A FISH AROUND THE PROP BECAUSE HE STARTED CIRCLING THE BOAT. THERE ARE MORE AND MORE BOATS THAT ARE BUILDING INTEGRATAL TYPE BRACKETS LIKE THE NEW 25’ SEACRAFT THEY BOTH HAVE THE BUOYANCY AND PROVIDE THE ADDITIONAL BOAT SURFACE THEY LOOK GOOD AND IF YOU NEED TO GET BACK THERE IT ISN’T ANY PROBLEMS. I WILL SAY THOUGH IF I HAD ONE 25” SHAFT AND NOT THE 30” SHAFT ON MY 225 I MIGHT THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THIS, BUT WITH A 30” SHAFT I DON’T SEE THAT I WILL BE TAKING MUCH WATER OVER THE STERN AND ONTO THE DECK. WILL THAT MY THOUGHTS AND LIKE I SAID EVERYTHING HAS THEIR OWN PREFERENCES ON THIS SUBJECT.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

If you have seen my other post I am trying to do the same thing on my 20'. The pros are - longer waterline = better ride, closed in transom is nice in bigger seas and having the motor back further reduces noise.
The cons are(as Fellowship says) additional obstacle when fighting fish from the stern, possible self bailing compromise, prop specs could change and I have heard both scenarios from different people who have done this - slow to plane or easier to plane. Also longer shaft is required. I hope my project is possible/affordable as I would love to have the closed transom and bracket combo.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

I also rebuilt the transom on my 20' SeaCraft, and thought long and hard about closing in the transom and adding a bracket. I decided not to, because I also did not want to fight fish around the motor. Also aftermarket brackets make backing the boat very difficult. I decided to raise the transom to 25" and save myself the $1000. The higher transom definitely should help the problem of taking water in over the stern.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Hey guys

As you may well know I’m also contemplating a bracket for a 23 CC. And yes there are many pros and cons to doing it. Fellow-ship brings up a good point of the motor/motors getting in the way fishing and I have heard both sides about backing the boat down with a bracket. I think the biggest reason I’m considering it is to gain back a lot of deck that gets taken away with the splashwell. That then leads to the benefit of a solid transom to keep the ocean out. As far as the ability to use the notch to bail the boat out ….at least in my case it would not work with the big splashwell….as it will not allow water in to the boat its not going to let it out either (this is assuming you take green water over the bow ). The bracket I have focused on is the Potter bracket that Hermco distributes. I have even had a Captain that I used to work for go and look at the bracket to get an assessment of it. He came back with very favorable report….and basically said that if he was to purchase an aftermarket bracket he would go with this one hands down…

If I go with this bracket I will most likely go with a twin-engine bracket for future consideration of motors. I can still mount the single and when the day comes I can convert it to a twin mount if I so desire. All I have to do is some minor glasswork to seal up the holes from the single mount. Twin bracket also affords me a lot of floatation for one of those heavy four strokes if I wanted to go that way. In general I like the fact that the floatation chamber is just that…it’s a chamber. I could throw this bracket in the water and it would float. Try that with an aluminum one and it’s to the bottom as they rely on the seal made against the transom and 5200 to create a waterproof floatation chamber. Potters bracket also has a huge load distribution area across the entire transom therefore its not concentrating all the weight in a 1foot square area where the engine is bolted to the transom. Additionally the platform would benefit me for diving (for much easier access in and out of the boat).

If you look at the float chamber for some of the other brackets out there they angle up from the attachment point on the transom to the motor mount, whereas Potters follows the same plane as the boats bottom back to the mounting point of the engine extending the running surface of the hull (on plane that may be clear of contact with the water??????). In general and as for ride that I don’t know and would like to hear about that….a lot of boats come from the factory with brackets on them…look at Regulator. I have seen several 23 restored with brackets and while the bracket may not be the prettiest thing on the boat , the room and the feel from the inside is unbelievable ……and personally I think the closed transom gives the boat a lot of character….

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

I closed the transom on my 23cc, and I love it.It gets up on a plane quicker .I can back down now without water rushing over and inside the boat. I was concerned about backing down ,I had heard that this was a problem. The truth is I cant notice any difference backing up.The stern came up 1 1/2 inches with the bracket,it doesnt squat down like before. If you go with a bracket make sure its one with a chamber,I used the wide body from Armstrong. Overall it gave me more room, better ride and got to get rid of the original well I hated that design.Yes, I agree the ONLY draw back is that you might lose a fish or 2.
(I've been out at least 40 timest since I mounted the bracket and I've lost 1 fish, and that was because the the angler wasn't paying attention, and had to many Budweisers)but Ill give up the fish for the positives I gained.Like Scott says character, and in my opinion its a different animal.RS

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

I have a 23'CC with a bracket and twin150 hp mercs. I also run another 23 that has a transom mounted engine with the huge splashwell. There is no comparison to the way the boats fish. The bracket boat has the same amount of room as a 25' with an enclosed transom. I fish offshore and live bait for King Mackeral and have never lost a fish to the engines. FYI- the bracket boat w/ twin 150's can cruise at 35 knots which is higher than the top end for the single engine, and the fuel usage is the same. Go for the bracket.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

I wish I would of put my bracket years ago,BRACKET, BRACKET, Bracket.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Why brackets for SeaCrafts (or most other open transom outboard boats!)?!! 1.SAFETY - The biggest cause of offshore accidents is capsizing due to destabilizing water in the cockpit which in almost all cases came in over a low cut transom. That is why we put full depth motor wells in SeaCrafts. A bracket alone helps this, but not as much as having a full height transom with the bracket 2. PERFORMANCE - All bracket mounted engines should give at least 8-10% better top speeds and improved fuel efficiency than the same engine(s)and propellor(s)transom mounted plus better steering at speed and more engine trimability. 3. MORE INTERIOR SPACE - You can cut out the old motor well or you can convert it to additional seating, a stern casting deck or additional storage space. (See the Hermco link for pictures of some he has done.) 4. STRENGTHEN THE TRANSOM - Brackets with full width integral swim platforms spread the motor weight and leverage out over most of the transom. A properly designed bracket can be used on most SeaCrafts in stead of replacing the original core and/or raising the transom height - For not a lot more money and a lot less work!!! CHECK OUT the complete Seamark ALL FIBERGLASS Transom Brackets and Transom Closing Systems at the Hermco link. And by the way, who ever thought it made sense to put a permanent ALUMINUM extension on a good FIBERGLASS BOAT----

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

seapotter - you wouldnt happen to be mr. Bill potter, would you?

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Sounds like Mr. Potter finally jumped into the forum! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Welcome to C-S Seapotter... Good crew here with a pinch of Seacraft OCD [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ June 24, 2002, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: John R ]

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Reel Smoker, I am considering a dual flotation bracket for my '78 23' CC. What was the cost of your Armstrong bracket? Did you install it yourself or have a dealer do it? Any add'l info would be great!

Thanks

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Brian,The bracket cost me about 2200.00 including the ladder and sales tax.I took the boat to Stuart Fla. 1 block down from Armstrong is a small shop that he specializes in Seacrafts. He installed it and replaced the transom that was rotten.Im very satisfied with the end result. 3 can fish now at the stern not like before when the well was in the way.If you go for the bracket make sure its a wide body with the chamber,Im waiting to get a scanner to post some pics. RS.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

I have decided to install a bracket on my 23' CC. Does anyone know how the best way to remove the old baitwell? (Jigsaw?) I am assuming this will have to be done in order to properly bolt the bracket on. Any thoughts or advise would be much appreciated.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Briguy,
Did you mean spash well, or bait/live well? I don't think you have to do anything to the baitwell to install a bracket on any SC I have seen. The splash well mods would be to recover the space. You might want to look over at the HermCo site at what they have done with that
bracket. I'm pretty well sold on their bracket, but trying to figure out all the details before I
pull the trigger on that job.
Does anyone have any pictures that they can post or e:mail me that show a seacraft with a full transom and a finished off splashwell?
I am trying to get some ideas with mine.
I would like to put a livewell and or fishbox in the back.
I also would like to put a fold down bench seat across the
back.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

JohnB, Thanks for the reply. I have been poking around the insided transom and I'm amazed at the thickness of the glass to build that old baitwell! The bottom must be 5/8" thick. What I cannot figure out is if the rear of the baitwell is affixed solidly to the transom or if there is a dead space. Any space there would not allow me to properly bolt on my bracket. Once I have the bracket on, what the heck am I going to do with all of that space? (Most of my old well has been modified to gain about 12" of deckspace.) but I still have a mini splashwell. I would love to put a bench seat in along with storage underneath. I am very concerned about my ability to properly( neatly) close in the transom. Time is my major factor, the second is lack of any garage facility. OH, IF ONLY ALL OF US LIVED IN THE SAME COUNTY LIFE WOULD BE PERFECT! Would we name it SEACRAFTSVILLE or POTTERSTOWN?

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

HA BRIGUY
WHEN I DID MY TRANSOM I REMOVED THE BAIT WELL. WHAT YOU HAVE THERE IS THIS. ON THE BOTTOM OF THE LIVE WELL HAS A SOLID GLOB OF FIBERGLASS RESIN ABOUT THE DEMETER OF A MEDIUM DINNER PLATE AND ABOUT I/2 TO ¾ “ THICK THE LIVE WELL SITS ON THIS GLOB AND THE THROUGH HULL FITTING IS DRILLED DIRECTLY THROUGH THE LIVE WELL, THE GLOB AND THEN THROUGH THE HULL IT IS ALL WATER TIGHT SO YOU DON’T HAVE ANY WATER SEEPAGE. THEN ON THE BACK OF THE LIVE WELL DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE TRANSOM IS A SMALL SPACE, THE LIVE WELL IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE TRANSOM. SO IF YOU ARE THINKING OF DRILLING HOLES THROUGH THE LIVE WELL TO MOUNT THE BRACKET YOU GOT WATER SEEPAGE PROBLEMS.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Brian, the guy that did the work on my boat cut it out with a saw saw. He told me that it is not easy to remove them because they are epoxied on the bottom. Also you have to know what your doing upon putting it back together, he built some knees on the new transom and attached it to the floor. Remember that the livewell is a structural integrated piece when you remove it it will weaken the area , so you have to know what your doing. good luck. RS,

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

After looking through the old pages and messages.
I have been looking for responses of have do's and dont's off mounting an outboard bracket on the back of my 20' boat as long as I got it torn apart. Here is a message from Potter himself on why to go to a outboard bracket. It seems to help on fuel mileage, driveability, safety,and more room in cockpit. I know there are other brackets out there. But Potter designed this one for the Seacraft where others adopted it for the Seacraft. I've looked at Armstrong that looks very similar but the cost is less or Stainless marine out of Miami which have a single and one for a twin w/no platform. I'm sure there are others out there too. I just need to decide if its worth my $$$$ to put it on. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

I am looking at 3 possible solutions
Armstrong, DnD, and hermco.
Right now I am leaning toward DnD (http://www.dadmarine.com).
You might want to look at DnD, they have a strong product for a good price with a lifetime warrantee (no I don't work for them). Most of these brackets look pretty much identical.
I think where you mount the bracket on the transom, and how you mount the motors has more to do with precieved performance, than differences in the the individual bracket.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Ha John
This is just my opinion, but here it goes. I think, it would be really hard to improve on the 20 footer by adding a bracket, hoping to make it more that it really is. I once owned a 18 foot Hydrasport and “wanted a bigger boat” so I spent a lot of time thinking what I could do, which like you would mean adding a bracket. Well one day I saw a Hydrasport like mine with a bracket and after that I knew I did not want a bracket on a 18 foot boat. I ended up buying a bigger boat, my 23 CC which was the best decision I could have made. Smaller boats can propos on you, because of not having enough boat to handle the change in the center of gravity by adding a motor approx 3 feet behind the boat on a bracket. It seems to me, that somewhere around 23 foot long boats and longer have enough boat to handle this transfer of weight but on smaller ones you could have a problem. I know that can dash your hopes and maybe someone else has a different opinion than mine but for me “bigger is better” when it comes to brackets.
FellowShip [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Fellowship,
Your dead on right about the 20'.
These boats where pretty much "hooked up" when they were built. I'm still on the fence with my 23' with regards to adding bracket. I am getting almost 2mpg at 27mph with an older merc efi. Boat handles great.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

I have a 73 20ft SC. with a 200 Merc mounted on a bracket. Boat does need trim tabs. But she runs like a champ. I wouldn't even think twice about not adding a bracket. To solve the fishing with a bracket just "keep it in gear".

"Tight Lines".

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

My opinion on a 23, bracket. a 20 I'd leave it like Marks no bracket.But again thats personal preference.That DnD looks very similar to Stainless Marine.RS.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Same here.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Mark, I have a 1971 Seacraft c/c which is a heavy boat. I had a 1998 250 Merc. bolted to my transom. I recently put a Stainless Marine wide bracket on the back with a 2005 honda 225 four stroke. The boat tops out at 44 knots on my gps and burns so little fuel I've thought my gauge was broken. Put a bracket on the back, the boat will be better on fuel, you will have more room, and it will run out faster. I'm in Fort Lauderdale, I'd be more than happy to take you out for a demonstration. Good luck, Sanzo

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Sanzo, 20 or 23? They are two different boats and the weight ratio is totally different. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

If your talking about a 20 then your plowing a furrow, that boat with that power should be doing more like mid 50's +. If it's a 23 then your on target.

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Finster if his boat is a 20 it would also be on the bottom with a Honda 225 4 stroke......

Re: To bracket or not to bracket?
 

Thank you all for your input. I did talk to Mark the reason he told me he didn't like the looks of the bracket on his 20' thats why he did not put it on his boat. But he spent some major $$$$$ putting his to the way he wanted. It looks great and gave me some good ideas for my boat. I still up in the air on the bracket like a tennis game going on in my head. But will decide soon. Thank you.
John [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]