Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

HA SCOTT
IN FOR A DIME IN FOR A DOLLAR I TRIED USING POLYESTER RESIN PUT ONE COAT ON THE DECK PLATE THAT FITS ABOVE THE GAS TANK AND THAT WAS IT FOR ME. I HAVE USED WEST EPOXY FOR THE ENTIRE JOB. IT DOES COST MUCH MORE BUT FOR ALL THE EFFORT AND TIME SPENT TO RE DO YOUR DREAM BOAT I DECIDED TO GO WITH THE BEST. I GUESS IT IS LIKE RAPPING RODS YOU WANT TO DO IT RIGHT. NOW IF I WAS TRYING TO MAKE MONEY BY FIXING UP BOATS FOR A LIVING I WOULD GO THE CHEEP ROUT. NO ONE WOULD PAY ME ENOUGH TO BUY THE RODS I MAKE OR THIS BOAT I AM DOING. AS FOR THE HATCHES I USED ½ MARINE PLYWOOD ONE PIECE AND EPOXY GLASSED IT INTO PLACE. I ALSO RE ATTACHED THAT BIGGER HATCH AND REMOVED THE HINGE IN THE CENTER. I AM GOING TO USE THAT HATCH FOR 400’ OF ROPE, ANCHOR, CAST NET, AND A SEA ANCHOR. SINCE I REMOVED THAT SEAT TYPE THING ON THE DOOR OF THE CENTER CONSOL PUTTING THAT HATCH BACK TOGETHER MAID A LOT OF SENSE TO ME. I WILL PUT HINGES ON ONE SIDE AND A FLUSH MOUNTED OPENING DEVICE ON THE OTHER SIDE PLUS A GIANT SPRING TYPE HATCH STAY OPEN DEVICE ON THE SIDE.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

OH SCOTT
I ALSO THOUGHT THAT PLYWOOD WAS ½ X 6 X 6 BUT I THINK IT REALLY IS 3/8 OR 7/16 THICK. THE REASON WHY I SAY THAT IS I REPLACED THE OLD DECK WITH NEW AND USED ½ THICK MARINE PLYWOOD. IT RAISED THE DECK SOME AND I NEEDED TO BUILD UP WITH FAIRING COMPOUND TO GET IT RIGHT.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

FWIW, I used 1/2" BC or maybe even CDX plywood(don't remember) for my hatches and then Epoxy.I figured you don't need marine ply because it isn't going to get wet, and I didn't even know where to get it.Epoxy was recommended over polyester, because it soaks in better.My original coring was like a 2" x 4" sliced like bread and all the pieces laid side by side, presumably cause the end grain would suck up the resin better.Mine looked just like your pictures do, man that outer skin is pretty thin huh.I soaked the ply real good, let it set.Then I flowed it on to the back side of the skin, put the skin on a flat concrete floor,put in the ply, and then put a lot of weight on it so that the hatch would be perfectly flat, then I glassed the backside.I was concerned that the thin skin might set up a little twisted (or unflat) without the weight on it - they came out plenty strong and flat.I personally would go with epoxy - but I'm far from an expert.

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

Thanks guys
I too pushed for the epoxy and they would have sold it to me but they really feel (and who am I too question a shop thats been doing this for 25 years)that this is the way to go

I thought I would get that response about the Vinylester as I too felt that way... but they assured me that it will come out to my liking .... I hope soooo....Guess I'll be the "sacrificial lamb" for now!!! [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Billybob ... when you say alot of weight .. how many cinderblocks to keep it flat??? I'm more concerned about the big deck (53" X 31"). I was told to drill a bunch of holes (to let the bonding material seep through) in the plywood to ensure that the whole face is bonding to the skin...I was also told how to thin the resin to help soak into and wet out the plywood.

Your not kidding about the thickness of those skins....had to be real careful esp. with the big deck ... surprised that didnt fold in half on me!!

This should be an interesting adventure !!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] I'll keep you guys informed of the progress....

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

Scott,
The plywood is cut into squares so that you can insure you do not create air pockets between the outer skin and the core material.I am not a big fan of epoxy it is difficult to use and if the mixing ratio is not just right you can have problems.The boat is made of polyester and I would use it for any repairs.I would use a polyester or vinyl ester resin and saturate a 1 1/2 oz. mat then place the squares down making sure they "seat" well.After this kicks I use a cabosil/micro baloon putty to fill any voids,sand flat then add your bottom laminate.

d.h.

[ April 16, 2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: HermCo ]

Plywood core in hatches
 

Guys
What are you using for core material in the deck and hatch rebuilds?????.....

I'm rebuilding the fuel hatch and the hatch forward of the console. I will use the old skins to put the new core in. The old core material was 6”x6”x1/2” squares of plywood ….. I’m not doing that but will replace with a solid sheet of some kind of plywood.

DH .... any insight into why they built the deck like this....or if anyone else knows...

Right now I’m going with marine grade plywood……but I have heard that plain old regular sheathing would work fine….but I've also heard that the resin may not adhere as well to this?? Any hints on what type/grade of plywood I should get???

I dont want to have to do this again....

Was also advised and have purchased Vinylester resin, mat and Biaxial cloth to do the job as I was informed this resin will bind better with the mat and form a stronger stiffer hatch…..

I originally wanted to go with epoxy but two separate individuals that work with the stuff said the epoxy would work (and cost buckets more) but they both independently said this would be a good route (we'll see about that esp after seeing Trayder's issues). They both sell epoxy and steered me away from it….at least for this application. One of the shops told that they have rebuilt many transoms using this method with great , lasting results
http://www.fishingworks.com/Users/Us...t%20byebye.jpg
http://www.fishingworks.com/Users/Us...rd%20hatch.jpg

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

DH thanks for the answer on the squares... that makes sense now.....

Do you think that by drilling 1/4" or larger holes in a grid pattern throughout the plywood laminate would facilitate a decent bond....do you know the original thickness of the plywood used as per Fellow-Ships discovery...3/8 or 7/16

Right now I'm going with 1.5 oz mat on the original fiberglass skin... then a thin cabosil putty to bed/lay the plywood in... then mat on top and glass to finish.

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

HA SCOTT
IF YOU TAKE ONE OF THOSE SQUARES AND PUT IT NEXT TO A PIECE OF ½ PLYWOOD YOU WILL SEE THE DIFFERENCE NOT ONLY IN THICKNESS BUT COUNT THE LAYERS OF THE WOOD LAMINATION OF BOTH PIECES IF I CAN REMEMBER CORRECTLY THERE IS ONE ADDITIONAL LAYER OF WOOD LAMINATION IN THE ½ PLYWOOD I DIDN’T MIND BUILDING UP THE DECK A LITTLE I WANTED A BULLET PROOF BOAT AND ½ “ DOES NOT GIVE EVEN WITH 2 OR 3 BEER DRINKING GUYS ALL STANDING SIDE BY SIDE.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

Scott,
I don't know the original thickness but it probably would not apply with todays measurements.Use what will work the best for the job at hand.I would use AC ply and the drilled hole trick will work fine as long as you weight the wood down good.Using a notched trowel to apply the putty will help also.

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

Thanks guys

I'll keep you informed of the result....

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

Need some help/guidance....

The 53" x 31" sheet of plywood to recore the fuel hatch......I put holes in it to allow the Fairing/bonding compound to ooze through and coated with resin.....

The 1/2" plywood has a slight cup or bow in it now (I even placed cinder blocks on it to stop it from cupping too much)....

Do I dare use this in the deck??? I'm concerned that it will cause the skin to either cup or have a crown in it ( depending on how I put the plywood in the skin...cup up or cup down ) I dont want to risk losing the skin...

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

HA SCOTT
IT SOUNDS LIKE A JUDGMENT CALL ON YOUR PART ON THIS ONE. I JUNKED MY OLD SKIN’S THEY LOOKED TO BAD AND WASN’T WORTH SAVING. I HAVE HAD SOME CUPPING AS WELL BOTH ON THAT PIECE MINE IS ABOUT 8 ‘ LONG AND SAME AS YOURS WIDE AS WELL AS ONE BIG PIECE THAT COVERS ALL THE DECK FROM THE END OF THAT PIECE YOU ARE WORKING ON TO THE SPLASH WELL AREA. BOTH HAD SOME CUPPING. I USED TWO 2” X 2” 8 ‘ LONG FUR LAMINATED PIECES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DECK ABOVE THE GAS TANK AND THEN 2 PIECES 31” IN THE FRONT AND BACK THAT PROVIDES A MUCH FIRMER LIP FOR ME TO DRILL AND SCREW 2” SCREWS TO SUPPORT AND HOLD DOWN MY NEW DECK. I TOOK THOSE 2” X 2” AND EPOXY, SCREWED AND THEN GLASSED THEM TO THE STRINGERS (BOTH SIDES) ABOVE THE GAS TANK I BUILT THEM UP TO BE EVEN WITH THE LITTLE LIP THAT WAS ON MY ORIGINAL DECK. I ALSO MAID TWO BULK HEADS IN FRONT AND BEHIND THE GAS TANK AND EPOXY, SCREWED AND GLASSED THE 31” 2” X 2” TO IT. WHAT I DID IS MAKE A BOX ABOVE THE GAS TANK FOR ADDED STRENGTH TO SUPPORT THAT DECK. I HOPE YOU ARE FOLLOWING ME I KNOW A PICTURE WOULD BE BETTER BUT I DON’T HAVE ONE TO SEND YOU RIGHT NOW. I HAVE BEEN BUILDING THIS BOAT BETTER THAN ORIGINAL AND IN THIS WAY THAT DECK IT REALLY VERY FIRM.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

SCOTT:

CUP up...all things sag in time. IT's the way the clowns store it at the yard these days. there to lazy to put a third sticker in the middle, so the whole pile sags in the middle they just don't care because there not the ones useing it. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] P>S don't use ply with 3 layers it's crap. most good ply today is made with exterior glue anyway. the more layers, the stronger the ply.REG. underlayment used in homes today is the same as the marine ply, how do i know this .. a good friend spent his life makeing plywood. And i've spent a life time useing it. Hope this helps.................steve

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

Use the cut square method of adding a plywood core and you eliminate the problem of trying to use a solid sheet of warped or cupped ply.Or better yet use a foam core and you will be able to give the boat to your grand kids and they will give it to theirs. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
d.h.

[ April 25, 2002, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: HermCo ]

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

DH
Thanks for that....I've been thinking that way also (foam) but....Now I'm considering running two stringers 48"x1"x1/2" the length of that hatch to straighten it out...I have the room to put the stringers in (2.5" to 3") and I assume as long as the wood is flat before the resin and glass go on the back I'll be OK ??? Yes or no??

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

It's the glass that you put over the wood/foam that will give the strength/stiffening effect use at least two biaxial fabrics and it should work. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[ April 26, 2002, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: HermCo ]

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

HA SCOTT
THE THING THAT COMES TO MIND FOR ME IS THE GAS TANK AND GAS FILL LINES IN THAT AREA. I HAD A NEW TANK MADE 12” HIGH AND I USED ¾ PLYWOOD FOR THE DECK THAT THE GAS TANK SITS ON. THE GAS FILL COMES FLUSH AGAINST MY HATCH. IN FACT IT CONCERNED ME THAT IT COULD RUB OR PUSH AGAINST THE 90 DEGREE GAS FILL BRACKET. I ELECTED TO CUT A AIR VENT/ ACCESS AREA OUT OF THE DECK AT THAT LOCATION FOR THREE REASONS FIRST TO PREVENT ANY RUB, ALSO FOR ACCESS TO THE FITTINGS AND MY GAS SENDING UNIT THAT IS ALSO IN THE SAME AREA AND FOR A VENT TO THE TANK. I REMOVED THE 4 VENTS THAT WERE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE HULL THAT HELPED VENT THAT AREA WHEN I DID ALL MY HULL WORK. MY CONCERN FOR YOU WOULD BE THAT YOU GIVE ENOUGH OPEN SPACE IN THAT AREA “JUST ENCASE”. IF YOU ADDED ONE OR TWO LAYERS OF GLASS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE HATCH THAT WOULD STIFFEN IT UP AS WELL WITH OUT LOSING SOME OF THAT SMALL SPACE BETWEEN THE TANK AND THE DECK. THE SMALL CUP MIGHT GO AWAY WITH THE 1 OR TWO LAYERS OF GLASS IF YOU PUT THEM ON THE CONVEX SIDE. JUST A THOUGHT.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Plywood core in hatches
 

DH
Thanks again for the info. Its great resource having your input on this site!!

This is how I intend to lay-up the hatch.
(For what its worth this is how I was instructed to get a good stiff hatch)

1. Vinylester inside the skin (I’ll attach a pic of the skin that this is all going in)
2. 1.5 oz mat on top of that
3. Bonding putty next …a thin layer
4. ½” plywood core…..(If I use the piece that’s been coated with resin I will most likely put two stringers the length of the core to pull the “cup” out)
5. A layer of Vinylester and 1808 Biaxial (with 3/4oz mat stitched to it) cloth with the 3/4oz mat surface bonding to the plywood.
6. Then I was informed to place another layer of mat (1.5oz) on top of the 1808 to finish the back surface of the hatch ….

Seems to me that this thing is going to be pretty stiff( need a nuclear bomb to get this thing apart [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ) and as long as the plywood is flat during curing it should work….. What do you think?….

Fellow-Ship….Good point about the fuel fill pipe….originally (at least with the tank I now have) the pipe and vent was at the front of the tank and was actually under the deck that is in the console and not under this fuel hatch/deck.

Where is your Fuel fill/vent….I think I saw Billybob’s in the center of his tank

http://www.fishingworks.com/Users/Us...d%20skinii.jpg