Wet Transom Too
 

Need some advice on what to do.

Turns out my transom is in rough shape(not as solid as I previously thought). The boat had a 1/4" peice of aluminum wrapped over the transom. When I took it off I found that the fiberglass was cracked all along the top. Also found that all five transom drains(3 splashwell, 2 transom wells) were cracked and in bad shape. I cleaned out the drains and felt a lot of moisture. I decided to cut away a 10" x 12" piece of the fiberglass "skin" on the back of the transom. It was really wet. The wood seems to be somewhat stable, it's not like mulch. Or I may be just kidding myself. What to do?

check out the pics at http://seacraft.snetsol.com

click on the Transom Problems link.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Rich-
I am drying out my splashwell drain plug opening too. I have a 3" ring of darker colored bottom paint around the opening, no cracks though. I think moisture is seeping through the glass in that area. Trayder and many others have tackled the transom rebuild while others have just repaired spots. There are some good photos of Trayder's transom work in the pictures of his 20'Seacraft. This problem has got to be the #1 deterioration problem. I am resealing all of my openings on the transom with 3M 4200/5200. Anyone have input on this problem?

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

HA RICH
IF I WERE YOU I WOULD RE DO THE TRANSOM I WASN’T SURE EITHER UNTIL I STARTED DRILLING SOME EXTRA HOLES AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TRANSOM THEN THOUGHT IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT RIGHT I NEEDED TO REPLACE THE TRANSOM. IT IS LIKE JUMPING INTO THE WATER WHEN YOU KNOW IT IS COLD, BUT THEN, YOU START GETTING USE TO IT. YOU COULD DRILL LARGER HOLES WHERE THE TRIM TAB CONNECT TO THE BOAT REMOVE THE DRAIN PLUG AND DIG AROUND. NOW THAT MINE IS DONE, I AM VERY GLAD I TACKLED THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF HOPING IT WOULD GO AWAY BY ITSELF. YOU COULD REMOVE THAT JUNKY SPLASH WELL AND RE DO THAT WHILE YOU ARE THERE I DID AND GAINED 11” OF SPACE TO BOOT. I ALSO REMOVED THE LIVE WELL AND MADE ANOTHER AND MOVED IT FORWARD BY 2’ LIKE THE NEW 23’. NOW THE BOAT IS TRULY SEAWORTHY AND THE EXTRA TIME SPENT WAS WELL WORTH IT.
YOU CAN SEE MY PICTURES UNDER MR. MCGOVERN’S 23’. IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN I WOULD DO THE SAME THING EXCEPT I WOULD USE ½ “ MARINE GRADE PLY INSTEAD OF ¾” MARINE GRADE PLY. IT IS EASIER TO WORK WITH AND BEND A LITTLE TO CONFORM TO THE CURVES IN THE TRANSOM AND USING THE WEST EPOXY SYSTEM YOU WOULD HAVE 6 LAYERS OF PLYWOOD SOAKED WITH RESIN INSTEAD OF JUST 4 LAYERS.
I NOW THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO HERE BUT IF YOU DO IT YOU WILL HAVE TACKLED SOMETHING YOU NEVER THOUGHT YOU COULD.
GOOD LUCK
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

HA RICH
ME AGAIN, MY WOOD LOOKED WORSE THEN YOUR SECOND PICTURE THERE ABOUT THE TRANSOM I CANT TELL FROM THAT PICTURE IF THAT WOOD LOOKS SOUND OR NOT. I LOOKS LIKE IT HAS DRY ROT TO IT. SOMETIMES WOOD THAT GETS WET AND DRIES OUT OVER AND OVER AGAIN COULD LOOK OK BUT IF YOU PUT ANY PRESSURE TO IT THE WOOD JUST FALLS APART. IF YOU DO THE TRANSOM I DID MINE FROM THE INSIDE AND LEFT THE OUTER SKIN INTACT I ADDED 2 ADDITIONAL LAYERS OF SKIN TO THE INSIDE WALL AS WELL TO STIFFEN IT UP SOME.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Rich-

Where are you on the cape? I would like to stop in and see your project. I can also explain how I replaced my transom. Fellow-Ship stated it best. Once you get started its easy, its gaining the nerve to rip apart your boats that is the tough part. I can assure you that with the knowledge base you have from this site you will make it through OK. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Check out-- www.rotdoctor.com. Read every thread on transom rot. You will learn quite a bit. The transom on my '78 23' CC was cracked in the corners and let water in. About 8 inches of wood was rotted. I cut off the top layers of fiberglass in the corners, used drills and a crowbar to dig out the rotted wood, dryed it with a hair dryer, replaced the wood with west system epoxy and layers of a woven/mat combo. It came out stronger than new! Good luck.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Rich,

I noticed in your pictures you have a spray rail installed on your. (20?,23?) Did you install it and if so, what improvement did you see?

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Briguy,

The spray rail came with the boat when I bought it. It hasn't seen the water since I have owned it. I don't know why it was put on or what improvement it might have. I think I'll leave it on though, at least until I get it in the water and see how it works.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Rich,

For some extensive discussions of transom repairs go to www.wmi.org. Go to the boating board and do a search for "transom repairs".

The guy who goes by the name dunk is a marine surveyor in NJ and you might want to send him an email. He is a big fan of Seacrafts and I if I remember he has replaced a couple of transoms on 23's before.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Rich,
I rebuilt my transom using dunks method. I used 6 layers of 1/4" luan plywood witha layer of 1708 cloth in between each layer. Finished it off with 3 layers of cloth, faired it, and painted with Awlgrip. Used the extra slow Raka epoxy. It was very time consuming, but worth it because now it is bullet-proof. I raised mine to 25" at the same time.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Time to tear up the Transom. I've decided to tackle it from the outside. I'm going to follow Dunk's procedure. Here is what he has to say:
(got this off of www.wmi.org)

The easiest way to do it is to cut the outer glass skin off the transom and save it. With a pencil mark a line around the perimeter of the transom about 1 1/2"-2" from inside the edge. Do this just around the bottom and sides, the top comes off all the way up. If the wood is wet or rotted you won't have any trouble getting the glass skin off. Dig out all the wood. Now you are left with and empty transom with 2" deep border around the bottom and sides. Doing this retains the strenght around the outer edge and you don't have to worry about tieing the transom to the rest of the boat.
I don't recommend building the transom off the boat because if the transom has any curve to it you'll never bend it to match. Clean the inner transom with a grinder to expose fresh clean glass and coat it with epoxy resin. I like to use 1/4" luan plywood then a layer of roven woven(RW) between each layer of ply. 1/4" luan plywood will just about soak through with epoxy, it's bone dry when you buy it. Cut as many layers as you'll need to fit the transom pocket before you start. Leave the section where the engine bolts higher than it needs to be, you cut that to the right height at the end of the job. You'll also need the layers of RW cut to size. 4 layers of each will give you about 1 3/8" thickness, figure what you need from that. Start with RW against the inner transom, then ply then RW then ply. You want to soak all the plywood a couple times before you start laying it up. Dry unsoaked plywood will pull the resin out of the RW before it sets up. If you are cutting the plywood to fit tight at the sides you may want to bed it later by layer with a putty mix of epoxy and cabosil. This will fill the side pockets full. The bottom will fill with excess runoff resin. Once you have as many layers as you need drill holes and bolt the whole transom together though the inner existing transom. 1/4-20 nuts and bolts with washers. You don't need to over tightem then either, that would just squeeze the epoxy out from between the layers. Most plywood you buy has a curve to it. Cut your transom sections so when put in place the ends curve toward the bow of the boat. This way most of the bolting you do is in the center on the transom. You should be using the slowest setting epoxy you can find. It soaks into the wood better and gives you plenty of working time. Once it starts to set pull the bolts and fill the holes with epoxy/cabosil putty. Don't over build the transom so you can't fit the outter skin back on flush. Fill all corner and edge voids with the putty. Grind the inside of it for a good bite. Mix up more cabosil and epoxy putty and layer it accross the entire transom and put the skin back on. This is where you have to figure out how to hold it in place. I've use 2 x 3's across the transom with ropes tied to the ends up thru the bow eye and back the other side. 2 x2's or 2 x 3's will bend around the transom allot easier than 2 x 4's. After that fill the crack around the planel as flush as you can and walk away from it and let it set as one big lump. After that it's not a bad idea to run some figerglass tape around that seam with epoxy resin. Sand and paint to match. Cut your transom then cap it with a couple layers of glass tape and epoxy resin.

Keep you posted.

[ May 29, 2002, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Rich, check out my pictures under the 20 footers. I did the whole transom over a weeks vacation. Hardest part is all the sanding and fairing after the glass work is finished. Check out raka.com for your epoxy and glass cloth, I was very happy with their products. I bought a six gallon kit, and have about 1.5 gallons left.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Rich or anyone redoin the transom. When Mike at Wildfire Marine replaced my transom he suggested on running the drain holes on the 2 rear compartments out the sides (solid glass) instead of the original way out the rear,or thru the transom. He mentioned these was one of the reasons the transoms would rot. Just a suggestion.RS.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Rich, I'm sorry to have to disagree with your N.J. advisor but I think he's wrong on two points. I believe the transom rebuild is better approached from the inside. It is a little harder to access from the inside but the completed job is invisible, and with a lot less grinding work. The old inside layer can be cut away with a 4" grinder and diamond blade. It fits right up against the hull sides for a clean cut. Also the clamping process is made easier by making cauls to fit the outside curvature of the transom and through bolting to pads on the inside which are insulated from the wetted structure with plastic wrap. The laminations are done much the same except that concurrent with general practice the resin is allowed to drain off, owing to the generally accepted fact that resin contributes no strength to the transom, only the wetted glass laminations do that. This is why boat-builders use the vacuum bagging process, to remove excess resin (weight) and leave only the wetted glass. Through hull penetrations are now made using the plug technique, preventing any future water migration into the wood laminations. Briefly this technique is accomplished by using a hole saw with a very long pilot bit. After marking the finished transom on the outside for through-hull locations, pilot holes are drilled from the outside. From the inside the hole saw pilot is inserted into these holes and the saw (rule of thumb size of saw is 4 times that of pilot) is advanced as far as the outside skin. Everything is removed as far as the skin, but the skin is left undisturbed. You now have a small hole on the outside and a large hole on the inside. The large hole is filled with FG putty (cabosil,glass fiber,etc.)a piece of plastic wrap and thin ply patch screwed to the transom keep it in place till it cures. When cured patch is removed and hole is re-drilled from outside. Water will not migrate through this plug into wood. Insofar as removing inner well is concerned, something to think about is that those inner wells also served to stiffen the transom, acting as a defacto knee brace to dampen transom flex. If your power selection will be within original design parameters you should have no problems, but if you are considering bumping those numbers up you may want to re-think that step.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Too Late to change plans now....

I thought long and hard about this, and decided it was too much work to tackle from the inside. The deck and the well areas are in great shape and to rip them out would be a pain and a shame. I feel confident that the method I chose will work. Actually, I'm almost done. Everything goes back together this weekend. I have been working on this Transom (on the weekends) for over a month now. I have all sorts of pictures of my progress which I will post on seacraft.snetsol.com after I'm done.

Thanks for the suggestion,

Rich

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

I agree that the transom replacement should be done from the "outside".I am currently doing a 20' transom rebuild and will post pics of the job.Going in to the job from the "inside " is creating a lot of work for no gain.The idea is to get the desired result with the least ammount of damage to the existing structural glasswork and rely on the strength of the original material that got the boat thru this many years.
d.h.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Did not realize you had begun work already. Also did not realize you were leaving inside undisturbed. You made the right choice insofar as which side to work from, however the other points are worth consideration. A lot of resin goop serves no purpose running out all over your work, and the F.G. plug penetration procedure stands on its own merit.

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

I took some time tonight to throw up some more pictures of the beast. You can see them at http://seacraft.snetsol.com I'm starting to put the transom back together this weekend. I'll follow up with more pictures as I make my way thruogh.

[ July 12, 2002, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: Rich ]

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Rich, Great pictures! Good luck with the final product. Just a quick question for the board. Why would we still use plywood when so many new non wood products exist. My local fiberglass supply shop has many different foam/honeycomb transom materials such as divinycell or corecell. Why not use these and save hundred pounds and never have to worry about the rot. Any thoughts?

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

I haven't done it yet, but this boards running theme and that of other boards is that a properly prepared and soaked layers of wood in the transom are stronger and will last just as long as their synthetic counterparts. Wood is good [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

HA BRYGUY
I GUESS EVERY ONE WHO HAD DECIDED TO DO A TRANSOM LATELY WOULD HAVE TO ASK THEIR NEXT QUESTION WHICH IS, SHOULD I USE WOOD OR NOT? I KNOW I DID, AND I DECIDED TO USE MARINE PLYWOOD FOR SEVERAL REASONS. AS JOHN R SAID WOOD IS GOOD, YES IT IS NOT PERFECT BUT IT IS GOOD, REAL GOOD ESPECIALLY IF YOU SOAK IT WITH EPOXY. ANOTHER REASON WHY I CHOOSE WOOD WAS, FOR ME THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT THESE NEW MATERIALS HAVE BEEN USED FOR TRANSOMS HAS NOT BEEN LONG ENOUGH TO TELL IF THEY ARE BETTER OR NOT I DON’T WANT TO EXPERIMENT WITH MY BOAT LET SOMEONE ELSE DO THE EXPERIMENTS AND I WILL LEARN FROM THEIR RESULTS. I DO KNOW THERE HAS BEEN SOME PROBLEM FOR THE GUYS THAT HAVE THE STUFF AS A LAMINATION ON DECKS, WHEN THEY WANT TO PUT ON A
T-TOP. IF YOU CAN’T THROUGH BOLT THE T-TOP YOU ARE ASKING FOR SOME REAL PROBLEMS LATER ON. IF A TRANSOM IS DONE CORRECTLY WITH WOOD IT WILL LAST, COST LESS, AND WILL BE STRONGER AND HEAVIER. HEAVIER IN A BOAT IS NOT BAD FOR ME IT IS GOOD, REEL GOOD, I LIKE THE OLD BATTLE WAGON APPROACH. ONE OF THE OTHER BEST 23’ BOATS THAT ARE BUILT IS THE REGULATOR THERE HULL IS 3,600 LBS. THAT IS APPROX 800 TO 1,000 LBS MORE THAN THE SEACRAFT. I WANT A BOAT THAT CAN STAND UP TO THE POUNDING OF THE SEA. I THINK A LOT OF THE REASONS WHY THEY ARE MAKING BOATS LIGHTER USUALLY MEANING (LESS MATERIAL) IN A LOT OF BOATS IS BECAUSE OF THE COST NOT BECAUSE IT IS ANY BETTER. WELL I SURE DID GIVE YOU MORE THAN MY 2 CENTS WORTH ON THIS ONE. I NEED TO GO HOME AND GET A BUD.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

Fellow Ship - how was that Bud?

Any more pics of the "new" craft? I'm dyin' over here [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Wet Transom Too
 

HA JOHN R
I HAVE BEEN TAKING SOME PICTURES BOTH WHEN I WAS DOWN IN THE KEYS AND SOME LATELY I STILL HAVE SOME FILM TO SHOOT FIRST BEFORE I TAKE IT TO GET DEVELOPED. I WILL BE WORKING ON THE BOAT THIS WEEKEND SO MAYBE NEXT WEEK I WILL BE ABLE TO POST A LOT MORE PICTURES. JUST BEFORE MY KEYS TRIP I HAD TO DO SOME OF THE WORK FAST INSTEAD OF GOOD SO NOW I GOT TO GO BACK AND RE DO SOME ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS IN THE CENTER CONSOL AND IN THE BILGE. I ALSO AM HAVING A COMPLETE COVER MADE FOR THE BOAT OUT OF SUNBRELLA TO PROTECT IT FROM THE SUN AND RAIN. I AM ALSO WORKING ON A BUILT IN TACKLE BOX UNDER THE CENTER CONSOL AND A NEW GRAB RAIL AROUND THE BOAT. I THINK I WILL ALSO GIVE THE BOAT A THIRD COAT OF PAINT ON THE OUTSIDE AND ALSO NEED TO SAND AND BUFF THE GEL COAT ON THE BOTTOM. ALL THIS STUFF I PUT UNDER THE HEADING OF ON GOING WORK. I NOW HAVE ABOUT 50 HRS ON THE YAMAHA 225. IN MY OPINION THAT’S THE WAY TO GO ON A 23’ MORE THAN ENOUGH POWER PLUS I LIKE HAVING JUST ONE ENGINE TO DEAL WITH. I FIGURE SEA TOW IS MY KICKER IF I EVER GET IN TROUBLE.
OH BY THE WAY A REALLY DID NEED THAT BUD AND IT WAS REEL GOOD.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]