Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

The thru hull scuppers in the 23……. How did you guys fix them???

One of mine is corroded and eaten away .... and I'm thinking its mounted through wood (Fellow-ship did you say they were in a block of wood??)

Any easy, curse free methods for removal of the old brass tubes and replacement with...I guess the same??? Unfortunately the top half of the tube (closest to the deck) is in there pretty good....but the bottom half is just about gone. Where do you find the replacement tubes and what’s the best way to get them back in there....I think I was told at one point Whaler has them long enough to reach the deck from outside the hull???

At this time I want to replace as originally designed.....In the future that may change ….but until the transom is addressed .. one way or another ....I'll most likely leave them thru the deck.

Thanks
Scott

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Anyone???? No one's had to replace these tubes???

OK....how about a curse FULL method of removal???

They are in there like concrete!!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Hi Scott, On my 1986 23' walkaround they were cheap plastic ones, So I could just brake them out. Then I checked to make sure the transom wood was dry then seal it with 5200 and install new brass thru hulls with 5200. There is something be sold that will remove old sealer like 5200 at West Marine and Boat US. Hope this helps.
P.S. It still was not easy.

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Scott-

I have learned from our friends @ the Classic Whaler site that Boston Whaler dealers can get these tubes in very long length's. I guess the Boston Whaler Montauk and Outrages utilize them with in there hull. I am pretty sure Hammer ordered some from his local Whaler dealer and they worked well.

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

One of my friends made a flaring tool for use when installing them also. Pretty simple tool. Also instead of the 5200 you might think about using the 4200 instead so if you have to replace them again in another 20 years it will be easier to remove. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Mine were plastic as well and came out easily so I cant comment on how fifficult it is to remove the brass tubes. However I bought (and still have) useless 4" tubes that were too short to work. Craig

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

no holes in my transom, just 2 3700 bilge pumps below deck, if those cant keep the water out., the boat does not deserve to float

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

HA SCOTT
SORRY I DIDN’T SEE YOUR POST TILL NOW. THOSE SCUPPERS TO GO DIRECTLY THROUGH A 3’X 3’ X 8-12” LONG BLOCK OF WOOD IT IS LAMINATED WITH GLASS AND IT FITS AGAINST THE CORNER OF THE HULL AND GOES FROM ABOUT 2” IN FRONT OF THE SCUPPER TO THE TRANSOM AND THE TRANSOM TIES INTO IT FOR ADDED SUPPORT. IF THE WOOD IS NOT SHOT, BUT PROBABLY IT IS DUE TO THE SCUPPER BEING SHOT YOU COULD REPLACE JUST THE SCUPPER. I FOUND MY SCUPPER’S AT A GOOD MARINE HARDWARE STORE THEY DO MAKE THESE SCUPPER’S 4” LONG. IF YOU HAVE TO REPLACE THE BLOCKS OF WOOD YOU WILL HAVE A REAL PROBLEM ATTEMPTING TO DO THAT WITH OUT DOING THE TRANSOM FROM THE INSIDE. I DON’T SEE ANY EASY WAY OF GETTING TO THOSE BLOCKS OF WOOD ANY OTHER WAY WITH OUT TARRING UP A LOT OF GOOD DECKING AREA JUST TO GET TO THEM. I DID MINE WHEN I DID THE TRANSOM. THE ONLY OTHER METHOD YOU COULD USE IS TO REMOVE THE SCUPPER (BRASS TUBE) DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO CLEAN UP THE INSIDE WHERE THE WOOD WILL BE OR SHOULD HAVE SAID USE TO BE. THEN BLOCK OFF THE BOTTOM WITH SOMETHING AND THEN FILL IN THE VOID FROM THE TOP WITH RESIN AND FAIRING COMPOUND THE GLASS THAT GOES AROUND THE WOOD COULD PROVE SUPPORT TO PUT FAIRING COMPOUND IN TO FILL IN THE VOID. I WOULDN’T USE JUST RESIN DUE TO THE ORIGINAL LAMINATION WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO PREVENT LEAKING OF THE RESIN OUT OF THE GLASSED FRAME SURROUNDING THE WOOD BLOCK. THIS COULD BE A POTENTIAL MAJOR PROBLEM IF WATER LEAKS FROM AROUND THE TUBES INTO THAT AREA AND THAT AREA DOES NOT CONTAIN THE WATER YOU HAVE A POTENTIAL LEAK THAT GOES DIRECTLY INTO THE BILGE. I BET MORE THAT ONE SEACRAFT HAS SUNK BECAUSE OF THE SCUPPERS LEAKING FROM AROUND THIS 4” SCUPPER. IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS LET ME KNOW I REMEMBER SPENDING A ENTIRE WEEKEND DOING MINE.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

HA SCOTT
NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT I THINK THOSE SCUPPER'S WERE 6" LONG.
FELLOW-SHIP

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Thanks for the all the info guys....

Fellow-Ship.............I had a feeling you were going to say that!!!!! I guess you determined the problem when the cap came off the boat and you started demolition the splashwell. I've heard guys say their decks were soft back by the scuppers.....and when it got real cold it turned solid (hence the water saturated support you speak of). Thats not the case with mine.....the deck is rock solid all the time...and I'm hoping that the area around the tube is too since I cant budge the old brass tubes. And I think your right about the length....I pretty sure it may be a little longer than 4".

Miles .... the flaring tool .... threaded drill rod and a couple of nuts and large washers????? I saw one for sale but I 'm not paying $75 for a one shot deal.

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Scott/All,
I will be putting a bracket on my boat soon, and will be doing some transom engineering in the process. One idea I have is to run the scullpers out the side instead of thru the transom. I am at the point where other than the bracket bolts, I am not going to put any holes in the new transome, period. Anyone had any experience, or seen this done?
Thanks

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

JohnB
That had actually crossed my mind before. I think if you do it that way I would try to angle the drains towards the stern of the boat as far as you can without tangling with the corner of the boat (instead of right through the side where the scupper is currently located). You would also need some sort of flap over the opening to keep the ocean out.....I dont think those cone scuppers with the ball in them would look to cool sticking out the side of the boat. Another concern of mine if going through the transom is tangling with a bracket as some of the brackets would seemingly attach in the same area as the scuppers exit.

Speaking of brackets.....whats up ??? is something up with the transom???? What bracket are you going after ....

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Scott, flaring tool was what you describred but homemade.Very Simple tool. I think it has made its way around the seacraft community in Hampton Roads here. I will see if I can get the exact details,drwg for here if you like. craig

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Scott,
I haven't got a clue as to how I am going to do it, but it seems every time a hole gets put in a transom, water penetrates around it. Also, I am tired of wet feet when fishing 3 or 4 in the back. If I put the drains in the floor with a anti flow back valve facing down, and then out to the side thru conventional holes/fittings, I should be ok as long as they are above the waterline. If I go with the hermco bracket, it should add 450 pounds or so of positive floatation, and that would lift the back a couple of inches. I would put some kind of emergency valve that I could shut off in there. I have seen alot of boats that just drain to the bilge. If I fill the transom, maybe that would not be such a bad idea (boat is trailered mostly), and usually out of the water. My transom is not shot, but it is getting a little tired and has some water penetration around some home-grown scullpers that where put in before I got it. Also, the screws around the trim on the top let some water in (bad idea from seacraft). Maybe I will put the hermco bracket on with their transome enclosure and see how the boat sets and drains. The long term plan is to finish off the transom in the back with a bait well/station, and a folddown bench seat. I want to get rid of the splash well completly.
Any comments, suggestions, or ideas would be appreciated. I am going to take a picture of a fishing partners 23' Winner transom that is solid, and you will see what I am trying to do.
Thanks for the input

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Miles
That would be great... anything you've got.....After I get that tube back in there I dont want to crush the tube when it gets/I attempt to "flare" it over. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Hello,
I happened across this thread during my enjoyment of this site.
Take a look at page 608 on Boatfix.com for a shot of the flanging tool and some tubes.

http://www.boatfix.com/bykeyword.ASP...ube&B18=Search

Thanks
Chap

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Hey Chap
Thanks for that.....I have that big old catalog sitting right here and didnt go thru its 1,000 pages......Still trying to figure out why boatfix doesnt give you the actual cost of the item in the catalog as all of the prices in the catalog are alot more than online.......Like that Flanging tool is $37 and change (which is way better than what I saw one for) and on-line its way better at $26.....Thats not to bad!!!!

Thanks again!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

John B, thru hull penetrations can be done easily if you use a hole saw with an extra long pilot drill. Drill your pilot hole completely through transom at the thru hull location. With hole saw larger than thru hull (say for example 1-1/2" for a 1/4" hole)Drill from inside removing material up to exterior skin. Now you have a small hole outside and a big hole inside. Fill the inside hole with thickened fiberglass putty(add some glass fiber if you want)and seal with plastic wrap and pressure bandage(ply scrap)You can drywall screw the bandage to the transom temporarily. When cured, put FG patch on inside over puttied section, when that's cured you can drill your thru-hull through this plug. You now have a FG plug that will not allow water to migrate to wood.I have used this method for thu-hulls up to 4" in diameter (inboard exhaust) with no leaks and no water migration to wood. It works.

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Scott, did you finish your scupper work? If so, how did it all work out? I've got plastic ones, and I have a feeling I'll be messing with them once I have the liner out for the transom work.

Thanks, Jim

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

I've replaced my scuppers twice.A freind of mine who also owns a 23 ft'er is a plumber.He has a flaring tool made out of threaded rod, the piece that does the flaring is bell shaped. The tricky thing is that the hull where the bottom of the scupper is,is like a wedge, so the tube is not squarely seated. For brass tubes we used toilet stand pipes.The pipes come in 2 diameters, the bigger size is the one to use,don't remember but I think they are 3/4" dia. Be careful not to cut the tubes to long,if you do they will split when you flare them.

[ March 02, 2003, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: SECF3114M73J ]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Hi Jim

Well I have the tube from whaler and at the moment, in an attempt to get this thing in the water ASAP, I'm just replacing the scuppers as is (my original ones were brass.....) I still want to go out the hull sides or transom (instead of through the deck and bottom of the boat) but not until I know what I'm doing with the transom .... In other words .... No scupper changes this year

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

I knocked my through hull reverse clamshell rigs out of the scuppers in mine yesterday. The 5200 actually broke loose with not a whole lot of effort. The forward one in the fishboxI knocked out as well. Found that the hull was 3/4" thick and the circumfrence around where the fitting was was resined around it. Trying to find a local whaler dealer now to buy new tubes.

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

For mine, I used an oversized holesaw after clearing out the old. I used thinned epoxy in the hole to seal the edges. I then had patches of biaxial glass I soaked in epoxy, then placed them in the hole, tight with each preceding patch. You can build this up pretty quickly as the patches are doubled and it is not "too" expensive. After drying then used a 1/2" hole saw and cut out the center. Painted the inside with epoxy mixed with barrier cote. No more brass, and no chance of water intrusion to the new stern. Definetly overkill, but after redoing the transom -- didn't seem like too much.

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Back again, I am thinking instead of brass tubes,etc i am going to do what standing room only describes only using West system and going straight thru the bottom of the hull. Here's how I think it can be done. Drill out an oversized hole thru around the present thru hull. Using duck tape on the bottom, also on the inside of the boat. Put a small hole in the duck tape on the inside injecting west system until the hole thru hull is full. (using plenty of the thickening fluff stuff)After curing for a few days , drilling out a hole the same size as the original so the expandable plug will still work. The whole diameter of the hole will be west system in with a nice border. What does everyone think or am I thinking foolishly here and should i just go with the brass tubes again ??? I plan on doing this the upcoming weekend (4/12-13). Thoughts, pros ,cons??? thanx-craig
(she's almost ready to go back in the drink,)

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Miles I like it. I've thought about something simular.
I don't have any thing existing, so I thought I would use a paper towel tube instead. It still needs some thought on how to find center, but should be doable.

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Miles,

We just finished painting the 23', inside and out. We filled every single hole, including through-transom with West. The only holes in the boat are the drain plug in the transom, 2 s/s bilge thru hulls and the s/s fuel vent.

I'll find out where the water likes to sit and put 2 holes directly into the bilge. The cockpit sole will have oversize drains and piped to the lowest point in the bilge. The transom looks too pretty to cut holes in.

Scott,

Good luck. Leaving for Hilton Head with the little Whaler and a couple of lite rods.

Otto

[ April 09, 2003, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Otto Cuyler ]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Hey guys, I pulled the duck tape off today and drilled the holes. It is kind of hard to determine what angle to use on the drill bit. I drilled the hole out with a 1" paddle wheel bit after running a smaller pilot hole on the angle I thought would best come out where it was supposed to. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] The pilot drill hole was not long enough to go all the way through but it was enough to go for it. I did all the drilling from the outside. Went pretty good. Test fitted the expandable plugs from the inside and they worked fine except I had to expand them a little more than previously so maybe I would have been better off with a 15/16" bit or so. I think it is going to work great. Where the west expanded on the inside of the boat I am going to have to take a dremal tool to remove some of the epoxy that expanded in the well but it doesn't appear to be to bad a job, and its just for cosmetic reasons only. I am going to take a tad bit of west now and lightly coat the inside of the hole with my finger, just for shi*S and giggles. I used a mirror and flashlight to inspect the holes (this sounds badI know) and they appear to be fine. I put right much of the filler stuff into the west when I mixed it and it seems to have caused some air bubbles so I would not use them again. Anyways sorry for the long post, I think this is going to be the ticket with no brass tubes, flare tools, 5200, etc. I took a couple of pictures today and I will put them up soon. It will be ahwile before I piut up the completed project but since I finally used up this roll of film you guys can finally see my redone console!!!~ craig

[ April 16, 2003, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Miles Offshore ]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Miles, you were happy with the way it drained with original scupper config? I was working on mine today and I'm kind of undesided how to go, original or off the transom? Since my boat is disected either is not a problem. But I keep thinking, if the origianl config was so good how come the boat manufactures don't use it anymore?.....Well it will be a while before it have to make a decision, I've decided to name it
"Itchy Arms". [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ......not.

[ April 16, 2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Finster ]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Finster, In my eyes I likethe present configuration better than if they ran thru th e transom. The main reason is that I like it when it rains the rain water just flows towards the stern and out the boat. This is just a preference. Running thru te transom would have a big advantage also though because you could increase the size of the thru-hull to say 1 1/2 to 2" which will get rid of water fast if you happen to take a green one over the bow, and also you dont have to worry about plugging them up like you do when they run thru the hull. Six of one..........

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Scott, the hole was probably 1 3/8" prior to plugging up. I drilled it back out 1" hole. The only problem I had was the epoxy expanding on me inside the boat. I believe if I had sealed the inside with duck tape as I had on the bottom it would have kept the epoxy put. I poked a hole in the duck tape big enough for the syringe to go into on the previous horizontal holes and it worked fine. Now I have to remove the epoxy and it is quite hard !! Only enough room for a dremel tool that I can think of in the well, I just hope I dont mess up the gelcoat
inside while trying to remove it.
Finster- yes the first thing I do when I get on the boat is plug them both up. Other than when the boat is moored the only time I open them is when I need to drain water, blood etc, then the plugs go back in. I believe they are the standard 3/4" expandable plugs. Also did this previously on the old 20 I/O i used to own. If there is a really strong wind that is producing a lot of spray I will also remove the plugs though while running although it is rare when I need to do this.craig

[ April 17, 2003, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Miles Offshore ]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

BTW-Ill get the exact mesurement that the hole was when I get home from work this evening. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Craig ... cant wait to see the photos ...you've got me intrigued to say the least ...How much larger was the hole when you drilled it out in prep for the epoxy ??? and no problems drilling out the epoxy plug ...it was too brittle ??

Re: Thru hull scuppers ... How did ya fix em
 

Miles, what do you mean "plugging them up"? You plug the drains when your out?