Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

How come I never see anyone talking about gel-coat? It’s always paint! Sure, I’ve gone over all of the older posts, but seems like the issue was never really settled. Are people painting because they’re shy about gel-coat or it’s easier? Trayder, how did you make out with that Mako?

I’m still waiting for my boat, but have been fooling around with glass and gel-coat applications. I think I’ve convinced myself that gel-coat is the way to go. Not so much for the finish, but rather the application. Painting requires that all the prep work and finish be done perfectly to get good results. What do you do if a fly lands on your fresh paint? What do you do when spraying or rolling and you come across an area where your sanding work was poor?

I believe that if you can sand, then you can successfully apply gel-coat. I wouldn’t say that about paint. For about $15 you can cover 20 sq ft with gel-coat. Can you even get a can of marine paint for $15? [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

Thats a damn good question EBEACH.I don't know a lot about painting boats but I chose paint because I know absolutely NOTHING about gelcoat. So when I started on mine, this site was just a sparkle in Trayders' eyes and all the other boat restoration info on the web was for painting.I honestly thought that to gel coat a whole boat, it had to be done at the factory when it was built.I would like to learn more about it.

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

What I did is to get some plywood that I had laying around and practice my fiberglassing with that. I wanted to do similar things that would be required to replace a transom. Bonding two ¾ pieces together and then glassing that. Also working with inside and outside corners. I must confess that I could not for the life of me cover a sharp 90 degree outside edge. The freaking mat would not lay down over the corner. After working it for a while, the binder broke down and all hell started to break loose. I can just see that transom notch area to be a real treat. Hammers work is a masterpiece [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] .

I’ve used two types of gel-coat now and found they’re not all the same. I first used evercoat brand. Can be bought at most marine stores. My only problem with this product was the amount of time before it would “kick”. It took hours to get to a tacky state. I then used a product from a fiberglass supplier (LBI in CT). This time I also used styrene to thin the gel-coat for spraying along with acetone. I used about 3 oz of gel and a not so scientific approach to the styrene and acetone. A little of this, and a little of that. I was mostly concerned about overspray and the smell. I was doing this in my basement [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] !! Yes, I had an exhaust fan (finally). I used a “Pre-Val” sprayer ( $4 home depot), and everything went better than I expected. Overspray was never a problem, gel-coat went on fine and you could fill big scratches and pits. No drips, runs or errors. After it kicked, I applied a PVA top coat with another Pre-Val sprayer. By the way, the sprayer with the gel-coat was thrown away after the one time use. The next day, I washed the PVA off with warm water, and began sanding with 320 then 400 then 600.

I’ve got a video on gel-coat repairs If anyone is interested. I’ll pass it on at no charge, as long as you agree to do the same for the next member. Its very boring to watch someone sanding, but there are some good points. The quality is rather poor. Trayder, I didn’t name drop because I wasn’t sure if they’d raise or lower the price (hehehe) [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

HA EBEACH
FOR ME THE DECISION WAS MADE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROJECT WHEN I DECIDED TO USE EPOXY RESIN TO RE DO THE BOAT. GEL COAT DOES NOT ADHERE TO EPOXY RESIN. GEL COAT DOES JUST FINE WITH POLYESTER AND VINELESTER RESINS BUT NOT WITH EPOXY. MY MAIN DECISION TO USE EPOXY WAS BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST RESIN TO REPAIR BOATS WITH. THE OTHER TWO DO NOT HAVE THE SAME QUALITIES FOR ADHESION AND SINCE I WAS REDOING THE ENTIRE CAP, DECK AND TRANSOM I WANTED TO USE EPOXY. ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BOAT I FILLED IN THE 4 VENTS AND ALSO USED EPOXY FOR THAT AS WELL AS FILLING IN ALL THE 128 HOLES THAT WAS DRILLED IN THE TRANSOM FROM THE PREVIOUS OWNERS FOR INSTALLATION OF EVERYTHING INCLUDING THE KITCHEN SINK. AFTER TALKING TO TRAYDER I DID USE GEL COAT ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BOAT INSTEAD OF PAINT WHICH MADE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME FIRST OFF NO BOTTOM REPAIR WAS NEEDED JUST SOME MINOR FILL IN’S AND WHEN AND IF I KEEP MY BOAT IN WATER FOR OVER 2 WEEKS GEL COAT IS RECOMMENDED OVER TOP PAINT. I KEEP MY BOAT ON A TRAILER BUT YOU NEVER KNOW. I ALSO TALKED TO PROS ON THIS SUBJECT AND THEY USE PAINT FOR A FEW REASONS FIRST OFF IT LOOKS BETTER AND SECOND IT’S QUICKER THAN SANDING AND BUFFING SO IT IS CHEAPER FOR THEM IN THE END BECAUSE OF LESS LABOR. I LIKE MOST GUYS HAS ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT GEL COAT WAS FOR THE MANUFACTURER OR FOR MINOR REPAIRS BUT AFTER TRAYDER’S SUCCESS I HAVE RE THOUGHT THOSE TRADITIONAL THOUGHTS.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

What can be said about the durability of gel-coat? According to Fellowship, a paint job can produce good results for ten plus years. As we have yet to refinish our first watercraft, this issue is of great interest to us considering the involvement of both time and cost (a college fund is of consequence - our house cost less than a college education will cost in four years!)

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

GEL COAT IS A SOFTER MATERIAL THEN SOME OF THESE PAINTS THUS IT CAN BE SCARRED UP AND CHIPPED EASIER BUT IT ALSO CAN BE REPAIRING VERY EASY AS WELL ESPECIALLY FOR SMALL REPAIR JOBS. I WOULDN’T WANT TO TRY TO MATCH A COLLARED HULL THOUGH I THINK THAT WOULD BE VERY HARD TO GET IT WRIGHT. PLUS THERE USUALLY IS A DIFFERENCE IN SHEEN AFTER THE REPAIR JOB IS COMPLETED AS FOR PAINT USUALLY THAT IS NOT AS MUCH A PROBLEM. AS FOR COST GEL COAT AND POLYESTER RESIN IS THE CHEAPEST WAY TO GO. AS FOR STRENGTH EPOXY IS YOUR BEST CHOICE BUT THEN YOU WILL ALSO SPEND A LOT MORE $$$ ON PAINT. I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR AND WANTING OUT OF YOUR BOAT WORK. THERE IS NO ONE BEST WAY FOR EVERYONE ALL THOUGH FOR ME PERSONALLY I THINK I MADE THE BEST DECISIONS FOR MY BOAT.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

FellowShip sums it all up with the statement there is not a method that is better than the other.....I'm also between paint and Gel Coat after Jason’s success.....but there are lots of variables to doing it .... I want a colored hull, and of course not a stock color, I would think that gets a little tricky with Gel coat unless your going with a stock color ....to custom mix the gel coat to the same color for each batch/phase of the job seems like it would be challenging..I don’t want the hull to have five different shades of the same color ….. SO I should be simple and go white !!!! Paint ...you give the paint manufacturer a color swath of what you want and that’s what you get....

I've talked with someone about applying Gel coat and they said its best to be sprayed to get good results...or else your sanding the hull for awhile getting out the orange peel (spraying lays the gel coat on more evenly and not as bad an orange peel result) and bottom line when I asked about Rolling and Tipping gel coat I didn’t get the greatest of receptions…anyone tried to roll and tip Gel coat??? (i.e. you need a compressor and spray gun, you need to keep the spray gun clear and clean (I think I heard that from Jason) and I may be wrong but I seem to recall my buddy Brian saying , the gun isn’t your normal gun you pick up at the local tool warehouse variety, But then again the day I talked to him about this he had his head in a mold all morning [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ) ….The nice thing is you sand, compound and buff till you get the desired finish….How much sanding …… depends on how well the Gel coat went on

EBEACH ...You’ve stirred my interest… is that $4 sprayer appropriate to spray an entire boat? .....
I've finally tried roll and tip paint(on a panel I'm not going to use anymore) and it works, but talk to me after I start doing some real big surfaces…..Ummm ….Fellow-Ship ….feel like coming up north for a few days [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] (I hope I get the same result on the hull!!!)

Gel coat will require maintenance.... Waxing and at some point compounding to keep up the lusted that is seen after its first applied ... the paints are said to be self maintaining (although I have seen a polishing product for use on Awlgrip finishes)

Repairing scratches and the sort....matching gel coat color is an art...guys around here get big bucks to fix chips in glass .... but the end result is flawless.....Paints (well some of them at least) are more easy to repair, sand and buff up to match the surrounding surfaces (so I've been told by several painters in my search for a finish) I have heard that some Awlgrip colors (and I would think this applies to all paints) can be difficult to match due to color lot changes....some colors match easier than others

The thing that really has my attention is that very few yards offer Gel coat and everyone offers paint...small repairs with gel coat are fine ...whole boats, at least where I've been, doesn’t seem to be an option....LOTS OF LABOR …..EQUAL BIG BIG BUCKS

The hull I might consider Gel coating ….... with the big flat surfaces and lots of power tools…. but getting the color I want has me concerned .... Truthfully I wouldn’t want to sand the inside of my boat to the degree of getting the mirror finish with all the corners and edges and planked deck etc etc……. talk about labor ….yikes !!!!!

Ok so now we need the GURU of GEL coating to speak…..OH TRAYDER !!!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ February 05, 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Scott ]

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

Ummmmm.......OK... SO I totally missed your post some how.....

I GUESS I'M SNIFFIN' TO MUCH POLY-RESIN [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

Anyone ever use that interlux interspray 800? I shot a boat once with that and it came out real nice, tough as nails. Not quite imron, but a hell of a lot safer.

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

Finster....I've seen two boats sprayed with it .... AWESOME LOOKING FINISH .....BUT.. a yard that used both Interlux and Awlgrip said Awlgrip was the way to go ..... for reasons not explained to me....

I have heard that Interspray is easy to roll and easy to repair and get real good results

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

Hello guys- I wrote this on another board a while back:

I have re-gelcoated 3 boats and will be doing a 4th this spring, my 20 ftr. I will share with you what has worked for me.
Depending one where you purchase your Gel-Coat, it is NOT more expensive than Awl-Grip or Imron. The last boat I did, A Mako 19, a Gel Coat jobwas 1/8 the price of an Awl-Grip job (doing it myself)

Granted we used plain white gel-coat.

The prep work was easy.

1. Sand to original gel-coat (if previously painted), fill cracks dings etc with a polyester based filler or resin.(some say you can use Epoxy, just get rid of the ameine(SP??) blush.

2. Sand entire hull with 80 grit sand paper. Make sure you keep the sander flat against hull.

3. Wash hull with Acetone Tape boat. Trailer etc

4. Figure your working time with the gel-coat. Mix enough Acetone into the gel-coat so it will pass through your sprayer. I add the following way in a 2 quart mixing pail:

1: Add Gel-Coat
2: Add reqd' amt of MEKP
3: Thin with Acetone
4: Mix Thoroughly

Mix a small batch and time how long it takes to kick. REMEMBER this time. Temps Humidity, etc change things.

5. Mix a batch and begin spraying/rolling. Stop 1 min before the kick time and run to a waiting batch of ACETONE. Empty sprayer and douse everything with acetone, run acetone through sprayer assuring nothing will cure in sprayer.(VERY IMPORTANT)

6. While cleaning have someone mix another batch and begin spraying / rolling again.

7. Do this process until the boat is cover to 22mils of Gel. Took 3 coats on a Mako 19 using 1 gallon of gel coat.

Now the hard part:

The boat will now look terrible depending on your spraying skills, all orange peel, some runs etc. I am not a skilled sprayer so your skills may be better. Do not fret if it looks bad. The beautifying stage with gel-coat comes last. (for me at least)

1. For white/light color boats: rum Dye-Kem over the entire hull. Dye-Kem is a blue dye used when cutting sheet metals.

2. Begin sanding, making sure you keep the sander flat against the hull. Begin with a grit you feel comfortable with, do not cut too much. Some start with 120 other 100 and some 80 grit.

3. Stop and move to next section when the blue dye disappears. The blue dye shows the peaks and valleys so when it is all white you know to stop.

4. Switch grits up to desired finish, some 1000 others 1500 2000 etc.

5. Compound entire hull and wax.

Thinking about it,Gel coat is more expensive for a professional job as it is labor intensive. Material wise I have found it to be much less expensive.

1. Gal of Gel-coat w/ MEKP plus wax additive $50.00 From LBI Fiberglass

2. Acetone LOTS OF IT!!! $30-50

I am sure there are other ways of doing this process. This is the way that works for me. I have yet to roll gel-coat but plan on doing rolling the next boat.

Good Luck

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

As for durability, I do not think Gel-coat is much softer than any two part paint.

However, you will not have to wax a two part paint finish for it to shine, the shine will last for 10 years

You will have to wax gel-coat at least annually for it to last.

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

The $4 sprayer that I mentioned will spray 16oz.(according to mfg.) It’s great for experimenting and repair work. For spraying the whole boat, I’d get a real get coat spray gun like this http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Prod...gel_coats.html You can use a regular spray gun, but I’d make sure you have all the flow rates and pressure settings correct before trying apply gel. If you’re not laying it on fast enough, it will harden before emptying the can. Like Trayder said, The clean up is more work.

I’m not questioning which finish is better (paint would probably win), but which is easier to apply for the average DIY owner. If you apply 4 coats of paint, aren’t you sanding 4 times and spraying 4 times?

As far a color goes, I’d mix one large batch to do the whole job. Use white gel coat and color to get pastels, or neutral gel coat and color to get brighter colors.

Has anyone used an “air file” or “straight line” sander? It’s used by auto body repair shops. I would think this is a must have item for doing large sanding and fairing jobs.

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

I see this topic hasn't been touched in over a month, but I'm gonna reply anyway. Trayder is a phenom, I've drooled over his work several times. But, here are 2 products which will make spraying/finishing gelcoat much easier.

1) Duratec High Gloss additive (Available from Fiberglass Coatings Inc. www.fgci.com It is added to the gelcoat 50/50 and will make the gelcoat flatten out very nicely upon spraying. This leaves you with alot less sanding.

2) Minicraft Spray Reducer is what I have been using.Minicraft Reducers It is added at 30% by vol. to the gelcoat and does the same thing as the Duratec. It comes in different cure speeds which will adjust the working time. I use the fast for small jobs, but for a big job I'd use the slow for greater working/pot life.

I use Minicraft gelcoat which is custom computer matched to my boat's gelcoat. I sent them a piece of gelcoat from my boat, and they matched it with their computer. Now every time I order a quart of gelcoat from them, they pull up my formula and mix it up. The other important thing is to have them add wax to the gelcoat. This will do away with having to overspray with PVA.

Here is a pic of a boat built from scratch without a mold, and the builder used gelcoat with Duratec High Gloss additive. Hammer 30' CC
http://www.concentric.net/~Knotreel/side_view01.jpg

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

Very nice.......nice star filter too.

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

yeah Finster, you just wait till my project boat is done if you think that twinkie filter is nice: I'm going with one of those tacky Cokin "speed" filters while it is photographed sitting on a trailer [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

Photo Nerds!

Re: Paint Vs. Gel-coat
 

I'll be right there with ya bro!