I have a little problem?!?
 

At least I hope it is any way.....25' SeaCraft Open Fisherman. Since I bought the boat 9-2002 (it was built 9-1999) I have been finding shards of plastic in the bilge area. They appear to be pieces of PVC pipe. I took the boat in to BPS this past Saturday and I fished around under the bilge pump mounting plate(I forgot the little bag of pieces I had saved). There were more in there than I expected and this time I actually found one that had the blue writing on it like PVC has. I took the boat in because the top cap has cracked though in all four corners of the little splash well in front of the engines. It leaks a lot of water into the bilges.

I have not heard anything from them yet on what they think it is or where it's coming from.

Any one have any ideas? All the wiring appears to go down the starboard side in a tube that isn't PVC and is sprayed with what ever they cover raw fiberglass.

Thanks....Love the new look too!

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Sounds to me like it could be the extra material left over from when to boat was built. Most of the times the hull does not get cleaned before the top deck gets put down. After the first few years it travels back to the stern.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

The shards appear to have been crushed though....most of the pieces are long (3 to 6 inches) and not more than 1/2" wide.

Any one know anything about SeaCrafts hull replacment policy?

Where did they move their operation?

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

SeaCraft relocated to the Carolinas, FYI. You should probably have someone, independant, check the boat over. Pull the inspection plates, possibly even pull any removable panels and take a peek to see what is up. Most likely, it is some stuff that was left in there when it was made and they just left it there, figuring nobody was ever going to see it anyway. I would complain, in a nice way, they will listen to someone who is sincerely concerned [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] more than someone who is reaming them a new @$$..... [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I doesn't sound like a hull integrity issue, but I would agree that the dealer should be alerted.

SeaCraft/Mako moved to Forest City, North Carolina (50 miles west of Charlotte) earlier this year into a renovated former textile plant. I have heard that the move was difficult and the first boats coming off the line there had some quality control issues.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I just got off the phone with Bass Pro Shop. The Asst Manager said he stood on the back of the engines and the transom fell back about a 1/4". He's about 5'8" 170lbs.

He is planning to have the outside shop who does their fiberglass repair come look at it before he calls the factory.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Any of that "stuff" jamming or fouling the impeller on the bilge pumps yet ?? That would be a big concern .... A similar situation happened to a friend last winter .... had work done in the bilge ... tag end of "tie wraps " were clipped off and left .... ended up jamming a pump...He let the marina "know" about it !!!!


That being said ....I think I would hesitate purchasing a new hull from them for awhile... Think about it ....new factory .... new unfamiliar equipment .... new employees....got to be a big learning curve

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

YIKES !!!! Hope things work out for you .... I think I might take a ride over there while this is going on !!!! [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Think about what the thrust of those engines must do to it when your pushing through some nasty ocean [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Yes I have had one piece get in it once, but it didn't lock up the pump it was only hitting the impellar. Made plenty of noise though.

Not sure what to do about a possible new hull, what ever they are building now would have to be better than what I got now?!?

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I almost sunk a 1 month old Hydrasport in 3-5 foot seas 5 miles off shore because they did not get all the small pieces of fiberglass out of the hull and they jammed up the bilge pump. From then on I always have two bilge pumps on separate switches in my boats.
FellowShip

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Right On FellowShip [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I have both on float switches with one to a toggle and one direct to a battery in case the toggle fails [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I went by last night to take some pictures of the cracks and see exactly what the Asst. Manager ment when he got up on the engines. I bet he said it 4 times during our conversation..."I can't beleive you didn't notice how much the engines moved".

I climbed up on it and my first thought was "what's he talking about" it's no worse than when they "checked the boat out" before I bought it. The engine on my old Robalo moved a little bit when you had the engine up. The engines on the SeaCraft did moved more, but with twin engines I thought it must normal after Bass Pro Shop gave the boat a clean bill during the check up. They didn't have another 25'er at that time, but they do now.

The engines on their boat are as solid as a rock on the their boat. The "seam" between the gunwell cap and the hull doesn't exist like it does on mine. Now that I know how solid the engines should be, I can see what was talking about. He had a pretty funny look on his face when I told him that two of their service managers looked at the cracks and told me it was ok and to seal the area with 5200. They change service manger more often than I change my socks! LOL

I would post the pictures if I knew how??????????????

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

One more thing...How long has SeaCraft's new location in operation?

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Captn C,
Email your pics to John R. He can put them up on The Boat Zone, then you can post them here.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Capt C-

Email the pics to me and I will post them for you:

admin@classicseacraft.com

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I really feel for CaptC on this one, talk about leaving a nasty feeling in your gut [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I can't find the "Boat Zone" either???? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] LOL

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Just thinking back about being 100nmiles offshore at 1am at night and the whole a$$end fall off your boat! That'll make the hair on the back of your neck stand up! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Our best Yellowfin Tuna action is at the floater's 100nmiles out at night and I was out there last August.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

It sounds like from the info you have posted that the company did not tie in the transom in to the splash well with enough glass and that could cause the cracks on the 4 corners and the little flex when you are bouncing on the motors. If some support strips of glass are installed from the inside and re gel coat the cracks would be the best way to repair the damage. Personally I have always had concerns about the amount of weight and stress that is put on transoms by the weight of two and now 3 motors weighing 600 lbs a piece and rated at from 500 to 800 combined horse power. I’m no stress engineer but when you build a boat and use composet material that doesn’t weigh much with ¼ to 3/8” thick glass on both sides of the transom that will eventually collect some water and now the pressure of the boat going through 4-6 footers with the boat on occasion coming out to the water jumping over waves I get concerned about all 2 and 3 motor boats.
FellowShip

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I just spoke to Jason and it sounds like you're all set with the pics. He sent them to me - boy what a mess! SC better stand behind their product and fix this at no charge to you. Good luck and keep us posted.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Sorry about the delay-

Looks pretty serious also looks like wate can pour in from the gap into the hull?? I wish you luck.

http://www.classicseacraft.com/captc...fttramsom1.jpg


http://www.classicseacraft.com/captc...fttramsom2.jpg

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Well a picture is worth more that 1000 works on this one. If this was my boat I would look at this as a serious problem not just a cosmetic one as I thought on my previous post. For me I would pull motors and have transom re done. There is a reason that you have all these cracks “just painting over rotten wood” thinking is not the way to go on this one. You have a separation or de lamination of the fiberglass resin from the composet material used plus that entire transom got to be full of water. The good news “I HOPE” is that this is a 1999 hull and should have a hull warrantee that should pay for the work. I just tried to check on the warrantee but could not find it on their web site. If SeaCraft doesn’t want to pay for the repair I would go to a boat survey company to confirm the amount of damage that is there and then put the heat on SeaCraft to do the right thing.
FellowShip [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

The hull still has 8 months on the warranty.

I'm not sure I want a new/rebuilt boat. I don't know what that would do to my re-sell value?!?

I would prefer a new hull. When the boat was first bought they (Bass Pro Shop) installed all the electroics and placed the Furuno thru hull directly in front of the starboard engine. I had didn't pay attention to that fact, but noticed the lower water pressure on my pressure gauge. They said the water pressure on that engine was fine. But when I took it to another shop they seen it and told me the transducer (a big boat shaped) disrupting the water flow DUH! So I want that issue addressed as well.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Capt. C
A few years ago I cracked my hull on my 1995 17 Mako,so I called up mako and ask to have an adjuster come out and take a look at it. He did and said that it was my fault. I fought it to the end, until they agreed to give me a new hull. It took a couple of months but they did. What they did is they took my old hull stripped it and put all the old stuff on the new boat. One thing they did that I didnt like is that I asked them not to bottom paint it and they did. They tittled the boat a 1995 even though they replaced the hull in 2001. Alls that it takes is a little fighting and persistance and you will get what you want.
George

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Thanks for the info George.

I hope; with SeaCraft and Mako both being owned by Bass Pro Shop their polices about hull replacment would about the same.

The Asst. Manager has aready said he went over the boat and couln't find any thing that would make him beleive it was damaged during use. They replaced (BPS Houston) the hull on a 32' SeaCraft when I was buying mine, he had hit something. The boat had a hair line crack in the gell coat along the center line under the boat and some kind of impact mark. They repaired the hull and he came back a month or so later cracked again. So they replaced his hull.

I hope to be so lucky!

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Whoops! [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Thanks for posting my photos. My mom taught me better manners than that! Sorry

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I sent another photo to Trayder this morning and would like to know what you guys see in it.

Thanks.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Lets see if this works.


If it does you can see the first bulk moving forward in the bilge area. Because of the water in the bilge I set the camera about a foot up from the center line. Thats why it's not level. Here at home it looks very dark, I hope it doesn't to y'all.

If you look closely you can see an upside down Y that drifts off the right. Also if you closely there seems to be a crack or something on the left side between the bulk head and the bottom of the hull.

When BPS seen the photo they said it didn't tell them much????????????? They said sometimes the guy doing the figerglassing gets sloppy in unseen areas and that maybe what we are seeing. YEAH RIGHT! He did say that SeaCraft would want to take the hull back and open it up. My next question was ...Well are they going to give me a new hull? His reply was "I don't make that call." So I re-worded the question...Do you think they will replace the hull? Yes he said.

Any way here is the picture. Go to the link if it don't show up.

http://www.theboatzone.com/gallery/c...foreward_bilge web page

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

http://www.theboatzone.com/albums/cs...ward_bilge.jpg

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Capt.,

That's a shame. My Lawyer would be handling this for the fun of it.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Go ahead and start your legwork now because its going to take a long time. Manufacturers love to drag their feet.
Call your insurance company and let them know about the problem then back it up in certified letter. You may be able to use their legal dept to help you fight this battle, especially if they know you are coming after them with a claim if unsatisfied by the manufacturer. You shoud follow their instructions , but I imagine they will advise you to
Have a lawyer inform the manufacturer of your problem and let them know that you aren't going away without satisfaction.
If they know your serious right away they may tackle the problem more quickly. Those are not mere stress cracks in the pictures, those are failures of materials (laminate, coring ect.)
A letter from a lawyer may be a couple hundred bucks but that will seem like pennies if you try and battle this thing over the phone with people you don't know for a few months.
Dig up a copy of the hull warranty for the Lawyer and keep notes on everything.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

Excellent advice! I would be sooooo pissed!

Update 1-29-04
 

I went by Bass Pro Shop yesterday after going by to talk to my insurance agent. My insurance guy said he would call them if I need someone else to lean on them, he said that was about they could do.

At BPS; they went in and took more pictures and the guy who is handling it said he now feel the crack is where the bulk head broke off and he feels the area above the crack is really the fuel tank. It didn't look like that to me but it sounds better than "just a crack". He also pointed out that SeaCraft has built up the transom on the new boat they have in their showroom. They have mounted a 4" angle of alumunim across the top of the transom that the top engine bolts go though, plus they have installed a "knee" from the stringer to the top of the transom. So it give me the impression they have had issues in this area, but he said if they have they have kept it very quite. He also said these additions were from an engineer who was at Boston Whaler that now is with SeaCraft. The boat on their showroom floor was built in Florida. He also said the NC plant is not putting out any products yet. That surprised me, I thought they were?!?

The estimate he received from his fiberglass guy to repair the transom alone is $14,000. Thats without finding the cause of the crack in the bulk head or the reason the PVC show'd up in the bilge. He also explained the process we will have to go though.....From him the imformation will go to Tracker Warranty, after they decide it's more than they want to repair they send all the information to SeaCraft. When they decide what they are going to do, they will report to Tracker who will tell BPS.

The guy at BPS told me that if the hull goes to SeaCraft he was 99% sure I'd never see that hull again and sending it to them is what he is pushing for.

Right now it's in Tracker hands...the guy at Tracker who is looking at it, is their big cheese and BPS said that was very good because it would move faster if he is handling it. BPS also said Tracker is real slow right now so it shouldn't sit around long at Tracker.

I also mentioned to BPS that I had a number of sponser lined up for Texas Kingfish Asso. and Southern Kingfish Asso. tournamnets (seeing if I could get them to hurry every chance they got) and he said it would be a done/finished deal in time for them.

So it's looking pretty good right now...

Re: Update 1-29-04
 

$14K to repair just the transom!! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Someone is trying to line their pockets. Keep us updated.

Re: Update 1-29-04
 

I guess I should have used the words "replace transom".

Re: Update 1-29-04
 

Wow ....what can you say

Like Scott said that does seem like an incredibly steep estimate for "repairing" the transom....sounds more like a replacement [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] edit : missed your comment above !!!

Hope things work out for you and that you get a new hull with the improved transom ..... If that repair is deemed as faulty workmanship and or poor design(which it sounds like it is based on what you mention above) I don't know how they CAN'T replace the hull !!!

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I've been following this and heres my two cents: Document everything and confirm everything in writing. If you don't get satisfactory results immediatly, get tough. Your pictures indicate faulty workmanship and defective materials. I'd insist on new boat or take the money and hire a first class shop to fix it right, unless that will void the warranty, which leads me back to insist on a new boat or cash back...good luck and give'em hell.

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I see this stuff all the time on newer Makos...which are made in the same factory by the same people.

Document everything and keep in constant contact with the dealer and the Seacraft rep. Also, you should hire a lawyer...someone with marine experience.

With that said, I don't think $14,000 is unreasonably high to fix the exterior cracks and the major interior crack. A lot more work than most of you think.....plus, the boat absolutely has to look as good as new, or the manufacturer won't pay the repair guy.

If I were a betting man, I would think you will probably get a new hull. If you dont, get the existing one fixed and then you may want to think about selling it.

Ed

Re: I have a little problem?!?
 

I'm not sure I want the liability of selling something that I don't feel is safe.

I posted about my boat on The Hull Truth and got referred back to this site, this thread. So it doesn't look like they have had this problem before.

Not sure if that is good or bad??????

Update!
 

I sent Tracker and SeaCraft registered mail this morning. In it I sent a summary of what I feel is wrong and a detailed time line of events leading up to taking it to BPS on 1-17-04. After I got back I received a call from Bass Pro Shop, they said Tracker was waiting on a estimate from a company in Arkansas to re-do the transom. I ask him about the other issues and he said they were going to take them into consideration on the estimate as well. I hope the registered mail gets there before they make their call.

I'm not too big on it being repaired because I alomst would bet money there are other problems other than just the loose transom.

Any one know of a fiberglass company in Arkansas