Wiring Panel
 

Guys,

I could use some advice. I need to clean up some wiring. The best choice that I see is to buy a Blue Seas 8 position electrical panel #8261 and mount under the steering column. By adding this panel, I can clean up a lot of wiring, fast.

I am hesitant to do this because I fear that this size of a cutout will weaken the area around the steering helm. I do not want to end up with the steering helm in my lap in heavy seas! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

My other thought was buy individual switches/fuses and make custom panel where the gauges are presently mounted. This would be more pricy/work and possibly be too crowded.

Any other options? There is not much room around the helm on the 20' Seafari's. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Thanks in advance …. Nick [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

csick- I used the 8 gang blue seas and like it a lot. Im not sure about your location though- I would be afraid of hitting switches with my knees when running ???they are very easy to clean up that wiring. Maybe you will end up replacing the wires for everything you hook up and then end up rewiring the whole boat like I did [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]. Ive posted this pic (so dont bash me,lol) before but Ill post it again [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

wiring from the back side
New rewiring job on the back of the console

front look
front side

closer up


wondering how good shes gonna look with my new leaning post!

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Having built a custom console with limited space. I had to work hard to cram all the stuff in that area. Here's the pix's of the mockup.

http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/bw24.htm

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Thanks for the pics guys.

Are those fuses or the reset breakers?

Also, curious on what you guys have wired to the 8 switches.

Still thinking, not sure what to do yet ....

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Where's that guy with the Grady....Gw20..something...[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] .He redid his panel from scratch.. Nick. .ask him...

Re: Wiring Panel
 

nick..i happened to have a picture of my sefari helm on file. I will try and post here so other people can see what yours looks like and come up with some ideas as to where to mount more switches etc.. Safari helm

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Hey Csic- I have wired- fwd and aft bilge pumps, bilge blower, anchor and running lights, cockpit lights and courtesy lights (lots of different lights,lol). Those are fuses over top of the switches. I put a seperate line of fuses coming down the left side of the gages- they are for electronics , bait well,trim tabs, etc- so you dont have to go digging behind the console looking for a fuse in the middle of the night.I have a 35 amp breaker under the console feeding into the main hot wire coming off of the batterys for when all else fails, hopefully the engine will still run [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Yes fuses, This is the one I have.
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?P...1=7958&l2=6609

Re: Wiring Panel
 

"NOTE: Water resistant panel labels are not backlightable"

Thats about the only thing about the switches that I do not like- [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

I agree.

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Nick,

Don is correct. I replaced one of those goofy simulated wood grain panels on my Grady with some black Rowmark engraving stock. The original toggle switches and separate indicator lights were replaced with illuminated rocker switches. All circuits are fused. My implementation was more involved as the panel also contained all of my gauges. I will try to post pics or a link to the project tonight for you. My ISP completely screwed my website and I haven't had the time to fix it yet.

It's really not that difficult, just a bit time consuming. The wiring was tedious as each wire is custom sized and all connectors were crimped then sealed with heat shrink. There's only one thing I would do differently if I had to do it again. When I did the heat shrink over the female spade connectors, I did not place it over the entire connector, just over where the wire got crimped. It's not a big deal, but covering the whole thing would protect it a bit better.

I thought about using a pre-made panel, but it just wasn't right for my application. I am extremely happy with the way it turned out and I've gotten many compliments.

I finished my second panel a few months ago on my brother's 19 Grady and I should be doing a third this winter for a 29' Proline.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have.

I'm not gonna take credit for the Rowmark engraving stock. I got that idea from that Mako guy. Ring-something.... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

In the not to distant future I will be starting my wiring. I've always enjoyed doing that part of the job and pride myself on doing clean installs. I think I'm going to add a new deal for me when doing the wiring.
You can get good quality clear heatshrink tubing from these folks. http://bestboatwire.com/
Use the computer and note pad to make labels for the wiring.
This will add more time to the job, but there is a hell'va lot of wire going in this boat.

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Here you go Nick.... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

http://cablespeed.com/~briandm/projects/project4.htm

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Thanks guys!

Brian great job! That helps alot.

I will get a pic of my helm area for suggestions. It is not a large area, so will need suggestions on how to fit and layout. It is slightly diff than Catman posted, but close ... thanks Catman.

It will probably be pushed to a winter project, but need to get a plan together.

Thanks alot guys ..... i bet it is helping others too! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

- Nick

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Nick,

When you get a chance, post some pics of of the helm as well as the cabin-side of the bulkhead behind the helm. I've got an idea rattling around in my somewhat empty head.... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Here is a few pics, lets see what you can do ... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-342F.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-341F.jpg

Re: Wiring Panel
 

You got me on this one. You have some nice electronics there.HeHe Same one's that are going in mine. That rake of the windshield keeps you from being able to build a pod.

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Nick,
Can you mount the new switch panel where the VHF is currently? If so, you could relocate the VHF to just inside the cabin door and run a remote speaker to the dash.

Re: Wiring Panel
 

OUCH.... you're right. There ain't much room there.

My preference is to not have to reach around anything to get to switches so I would personally not put them behind or under the steering wheel.

What I'm thinking is to rearrange the entire gauge panel and concentrate the gauges to the port side, leaving the stbd. side open for switches. Also, since real estate is so limited on the panel itself, don't worry about putting your fuse holders there. Install a fuse panel on the bulkhead inside the cabin.

Can you take a shot looking straight down on the instrument panel so I can see how large it is? Also, if you get me some dimensions, I can try to lay something out for you.

I'll post a few pics of the helm I did for my brother's boat this weekend. It's original configuration was very similar to yours so you might be able to get some ideas from it.

We'll get you straightened out. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

I know you guys will come up with something, just keep the cost down. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Scott, your suggestion would work. The 8 switch/fuse panel will fit in that space. I was planning to get an additional VHF to mount in the cabin, so i could run a remote mic to the helm area. This would be fairly simple. Maybe not the best to reach through the wheel, but i could layout the switches with less use in the steering area and others more used outside of the wheel.

I need to get a new guage panel, so i should re-layout for additional switches/fuses anyway.

Here is a closer pic, i will take some measurements tonight;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-343F.jpg

Brian, when you mention fuse panel on the inside, do you mean "on" the hinged cover or "inside" the hinged cover?

If "on" could it be wired to still remove the hinged cover easily if needed to.

If "inside", would that defeat the purpose of easy access to check or replace fuses when needed.

Also, curious on using fuse panel versus push button breaker type. I was leaning towards push button breaker type.

Thanks guys .... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] - Nick

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Take that hand held and mount it inside the cabin, place the new switch panel where the hand held was. get some of those combo gauges (ones that house two gauges in one or even 4) and redo the gauge panel.

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Here's my initial thoughts.

Ditch the fuel gauge and use the Navman to keep track of how much juice you have left. That will free up some space. Then move the hour meter to the bulkhead above the handheld. You don't need to be constantly staring at that anyway. Whala, more space. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Put the fuse panel inside the hinged compartment. You are right, it would take a bit more time to get too but it will be protected from the elements and curious little fingers. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] That will also keep wire runs short.

You should then have room on the right side of the panel for a minimum of 6 rockers or 9 toggle switches if you keep the gauges centered on the steering wheel. Maybe another 2 rockers or 3 toggles if you push the gauges as far to port as possible, while maintaining enough spacing between the port-most gauge and the edge of the panel so it doesn't look wierd.

You'll probably have to relocate the VHF mic mount though.

One of the best things I can recommend you do is cut a piece of cardboard to the same dimensions as the panel. Then cut a few circles the size of your gauges and a few more pieces the size of th switches you want to use. Sit down and play with them until you find a layout you are happy with.

I don't know much about breakers so I can't help you there. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Does any of that sound good?

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Yeah.. what he said......

Re: Wiring Panel
 

I like still having the fuel guage for filling the tank at the gas station. But you have the Navman to really show how much fuel is left. I'd move the fuel guage and the hour meter side by side under where the VHF radio is now. Easy to look at when it's on the trailer, yet out of the way.
I like Brian's idea of keeping the rocker switchs high over to STB. Easy to reach & see.

I got the Blue Seas 8gang Horizintal panel. For the main circuit breaker panel I got the Blue Seas 8023 panel. It will be mounted on the bulkhead inside the cuddy.
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_id=24837

https://ais.eporia.com/AIS/company_5...0,250&cvt=jpeg

Re: Wiring Panel
 

all good ideas- i would also put the vert switch panel on the stbd side. Id also about remove the handheld (like Don said)into the cabin-remove the standard vhf and put it on the bulkhead right beside the fire extinqisher. Then the fuel tank gage, temp etc. in that space. I would leave my tach over, navman under, basically in the same position they are in. I would lose the compass directly in front and move my gps to that spot(still have a spare to the right,or exchange it with the other one if needed,lol). I would then have my bottom machine at a 45° coming over the cuddy door. (is that permanently fixed closed ?) I would take like don and Brian said and make a cardboard template of the area where your instuments are currently and lay it out until you like what you see. I prefer to be able to look straight on to the items I visit the most. Tach, navman, water temp, bilge light?, gps and bottom machine. radios and other stuff can be tucked out of the way but still easily accessable and help save space. Just my opinion, good luck. And if you are like me, once you start wiring the new switch panel- then to the new gages, then to the accessories then onto the rest of the boat, I think it ended up around 600 ducks for my redo. (give or take 100 dollars or so)

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Nick-

Is that a hard top on your boat in the picture by your sig? In the past I have mounted my radio and gps hanging off the bottom of the electronics box so they are easy to reach. That may free up some space on your dash. Is this possible?

Strick

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Another option on the circuit breaker panel is to build another small box for it to fit in and mount that under the removable box inside. Run the wiring in a chase tube up into that cavity.

That way you can remove the big box and get it out of your way to work in there and the Breakers will be at a handy site, but still out of the way.

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Guys thanks ... keep the suggestions rolling. I need to think it to death before starting to rewire. I am scared to start because of the tight space and other electronics stuff that i would like to add in the future. Starting to take notice of how other boats electronics (new and old) are layed out. I need to see more examples of do's and dont's!

My buddies SeaVee is layed out nicely ... but that is a diff animal with plenty of glass space! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

My hour meter is dead, old guage with the old Yamaha. The new Suzuki guage is a multi with the hour meter displays through the tach meter prior to startup. So this hour meter guage will get tossed for space!

Fuel guage, nice thought to mount down low. I will consider moving it there, i like having it as a backup to the Navman.

That should free up some space on the guage panel.

I do have a hardtop, but no electronics box. When Don (PipeMan) made the top, i wanted to keep the top at a min height. An electronics box would cut into the headroom and obstruct viewing. I could get away with mounting the VHF to the top though ... good suggestion!

Warty, a box within a box is also a good thought!

I also was curious on why you guys picked this fuse panel;
#8261
instead of the this breaker panel;
#8371

- Nick [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

OK, got some pics of the panel I did for my brother on his Grady Tournament 19 .

From the factory, the boat came with a very small panel mounted inside a molded plastic tray with a flip up plexiglass door.

http://cablespeed.com/~briandm/misc/mytime/frontold.jpg

My brother and I decided to completely do away with the tray. This allowed us to make the new panel much bigger. Once we came up with the design, I cut everything out. The space on the lower right later got a trim tab rocker switch.

http://cablespeed.com/~briandm/misc/mytime/cutpanel.jpg

Then the hole in the console itself was enlarged.

http://cablespeed.com/~briandm/misc/mytime/console1.jpg

Next, I installed the gauges, switches, fuse holders and wired it all up. Then I fastened it in place with a few stainless steel machine screws.

http://cablespeed.com/~briandm/misc/mytime/newpanel.jpg

http://cablespeed.com/~briandm/misc/...alconsoles.jpg

http://cablespeed.com/~briandm/misc/...ortrearqtr.jpg

Hope that helps some. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Glad you are complete. When are we getting started Brian? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

One panel is Waterproof and the other is water resistant.
In the common everyday world water get's sprayed at the dash to get the salt off of it at the end of the day.
The waterproof model say's it's perfect for a fltbridge with no cover. [I read that some where?] That was good enough for me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Don't know if this will help your cause or not, but here is a shot of my helm taken today...

http://homepage.mac.com/kevinfarrell...D7F14A11D8.jpg

Good luck!

Re: Wiring Panel
 

That's super clean Kevin. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Something that bug's the crap out of me is the way the door is hinged on cSickNick's boat.
The hinge's should be on the port side. The door has to stay shut all the time, but when you open it it is right in the way of the helm. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Nick
I apologize at the length of this
Are you concerned about waterproof to water resistant ??
Given your mounting location I would think either would be fine. If they were less protected as in a deck location or even some exposed center console application I would be more concerned.
Breakers over Fuses or vice versa I think are just personal preference. They both have pros and cons . In my experience it seems that all the fused switch panels I have seen are considered water “resistant” or “splash proof”. I’ve personally not had the best of luck with those fuse panels with corrosion and conduction problems (that too can be helped with a little Vaseline or your favorite conducting grease) The fuses were a mess on this boat such that a couple of the fuses were stuck in the receptacle and the push / pulls were green behind the dash but that’s another story.
Fuses you can replace cheap, easily and everyone has a “few” kicking around on the boat. Breakers can be too, but they are more expensive than a box of fuses but really shouldn’t need to be replaced (takes a little more time to replace too). Don’t forget most electronics have fuses within the unit itself.
Most larger boats have “house” circuit breaker panels… Not fuses…with remote panels up on the bridge or helm. I would assume it’s a space thing on smaller boats not to mention a cost issue.

Like warthog mentions …what about a remote breaker panel then water proof switches at the helm giving you more mounting options over the pre built panels ? Give you more wiggle room too

Both of those panels you list are said to be water resistant and for flybridge or open cockpit use

DC Water Resistant Fuse Panel-Slate Gray (8 Position)
PN: 8261
Features
• Designed for flybridge and open cockpit applications
• Water resistant
• Water resistant fuse holders accept commonly available AGC (Fast Acting) and MDL (Slow Blow) glass fuses
• Water resistant Contura switches

DC Water Resistant Circuit Breaker Panel-Black (8 Position)
PN: 8371
Features
• Designed for flybridge and open cockpit applications
• Water resistant
• Rated IP66 - "Use on Shipdecks"
I.P 66 4 Either indoor or outdoor use to provide a degree of protection against falling rain, splashing water and hose-directed water; undamaged by the formation of ice on the enclosure. Hosedown, corrosion test, icing, dust

• Ignition protected - safe for installation aboard gasoline powered boats
• Push Button circuit breaker with waterproof boot
• Water resistant Contura switches
NOTE: Water resistant panel labels are not backlightable

The only panel I have ever seen called WATER PROOF was a circuit breaker panel by Paneltronics. However they are expensive. I’ve talked with an engineer down at Paneltronics and they can build a custom panel to your dimension/color etc etc…

Paneltronics waterproof circuit breaker panel

The Paneltronics breaker panel claims to be water proof, on – off indicator lights and its also backlit ( don’t know if that matters to you). The Paneltronics uses booted toggles to help achieve the waterproof claim. It seems as though the “contura” type switch cannot be waterproofed?? (even thought some catalogues list them as such).

This one may be way more than you need, but I think it would be my choice in a real wet location

I like the style of the contura switch ….The boats we have had or that I’ve worked on have had the booted switches, rockers and the push/pulls …. The push/pulls and rockers never seemed to last. The booted switches however never had to be replaced. Even the engine on/off switch and the ignition switch were booted toggles. In fact the Viking had small one and two switch Paneltronics in the cockpit for saltwater and freshwater wash downs, cockpit lights and the Glendinning shore power storage system. The cockpit saw tons of salt and fresh water and the switches never had problems.

Warthog …That wire you list above in that link …How do you like it ?? and how does it compare to Anchor (besides price ) ??

Re: Wiring Panel
 

I was asked the same thing in another forum.
The stuff I got on the only order that I made was GREAT.
Compairing it to Anchor? I would say if you took some acetone and wiped the names off of the insulation, there's no way you could tell a diffrence. I'm planning on a big order for BestBoatWire.com. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
http://bestboatwire.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=23

Re: Wiring Panel
 

cSickNick-

What did you end up doing for the wiring? I was fixing up my new 1970 Seafari yesterday, and the backside of the console is a MESS! typical old boat throw some wires in there for this, and that, for 34 years.....yikes! I'm going to totally redo mine this winter.

Another question- what can you tell me about that arch/hardtop (?) on your Seafari? Looks great!

Steve

Re: Wiring Panel
 

I'm interested in the radar arch also, how about some pictures and dimensions if you don't mind?

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Guys,

I have my wiring project planned to "design/layout" during the winter and start to "rewire" early ... early next spring. That's the plan, with other questions along the way.

This post was a great help and i have been talking to other boaters about likes/dislikes of their electronics layout.

I am also trying to grasp what's new with future electronics stuff, so i can allow space or wiring chases for them. Gotta love the electronic stuff! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

As for the hardtop, Don at PipeDreamMarine built it!
Search the site, there should be a informative post on it.

BTW: I am very pleased with it!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Well, after giving it plenty of thought over this winter, I made my decision this spring. I will admit this setup "may" be a little overkill, but after much thought and a few too many shot's of OUZO, I decide that I wanted 2 isolated screens with the most redundancy in radar/chartplotter/fishfinder. Since I had already have a Furuno 7" NavNet, below is the main stuff in what I did;

- Sold my 1850WF on Ebay, turned the $$ in for a new 7" VX2 NavNet
- Installed an Airmar M260 1KW transducer in-hull
- Installed 2 BBWGPS antenna's for each NavNet on the hardtop
- Installed 2 BBFF1 sounders one set at 1KW for the M260, one set at 600W for the P66 transom mount
- Purchased a fiberglass shallow angled E-box from FASTECH
- Made a new dash panel out of starboard
- Installed an Icom 402 and Polyplanar MRD-60 with MA905 speakers in E-box
- Installed Icom command mic and Polyplanar remote to dash
- Made a new glove box cover out of Starboard with flush latch
- Installed BlueSeas #8261 fuse/switch panel
- Installed 2 Blue Seas 6 circuit ST blade fuse blocks #5025
- rewire, rewire ….. Rewire …

I have low hours running this setup over the last 2 weekends, and so far I really like what seems to be endless flexibility of the displays. I was aware that there could or would be interferences with running both sounders at the same time. They do interfere, at times, but I wired them to the switch panel so it can shut one off. The M260 seems to perform well(as it should for the $) it can hold bottom at WOT. I also stuffed the wiring to one side the inside cabin helm box on purpose, in case an AP pump decides to find a home in there also.

Here is a few pics, oh …. Thanks to Jim at BOE for the great prices and service!

Before;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-586F.jpg
After;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-653F.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-642F.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-641F.jpg

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Wiring Panel
 

Good job! Looks a lot neater now, mine looks pretty good also but I'll make it even better by installing a white Paneltronics 6 switch ckt/brkr panel soon. It will probably go on the left side of the pilot's bulkhead. If I may ask, how much was the arch from Pipedreams?