Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

I'm a newbie here so let me begin by apologizing for anything that might sound foolish. The SC 23 is a fantastic hull. Yet when I read the forums here I am struck by two thigs. Lots of guys here are into project boats with a low initial cost for the hull (maybe 5K or so) and then lots of sweat labor/equity. While I enjoy reading the ins and outs of the project boats, I don't think I either could or want to devote every weekend for a year to working in fibreglas doing $8 an hour grunt work. My 60 year old lungs spent a long year in VN and that was enough punishment. The second thing I notice (again, I'm a newbie) is that most SeaCraft of this vintage are going to need a new transom,new liner, new tank,new console, new gauges, and new stringers. Wow. (If this were a Land Rover, it would be called a body-off-frame restoration but if the Rover needed a new frame, as the SC might need new stringers, it would be called maybe a "frame up restoration"!)

What's the cost of this massive restoration? The real cost? Well, lets see. The hull, an engine, gauges, panel, tank, etc. all can add up. The $8 buck an hour free labor can take a year out of your life when you could be fishing, jogging, drinking beer or doing any number of life's simple pleasures.

Now, and here comes the real difficult part, compare whatever figure you came up with with the price of , say, a used 26' Edgewater. I (think) I see them for the mid-30s here in New England with admittedly a pair of two stroke engines but with only moderate hours. What is an impeccably restored SC 23 worth after all this work? IMHO maybe mid-30's.

YMMV

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

I think you are confusing "some" for "most" in your conclusions. My experience looking at 30+ boats from the 70s is that work on transoms is common. Often there are soft spots on the floors too. Rarely would it need the rest of the things you've mentioned, though many may elect to get guages and consoles. I have not run into any personally that needed stringers or new liners. Not to say that "some" don't go through that, but it's certainly not "most."

Also, $8 an hour for glass work? Not anywhere in New England, try $30 to $60.

FWIW, I have under $20K into my 20 which included a 1.5 yr old Honda with 50 hours, 6 month old 5000# aluminum trailer, new transom, new gelcoat on hull and gunwale cap and numerous minor glass repairs inside, new flush mount hardware all around and more.
All I did was rewire the boat and installed the flush hardware. I think is was worth it.

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

BlockIslandGuy I don't think you will find anyone here that will disagree with me on this. "It's a labor of love". It's not for everyone that's for sure. No one is in it to make money on their own boat.

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

To do a project boat is for some people Something Special and for others it’s something Stupid. Truly It Is A Labor Of Love. And IT’S NOT CHEEP EVEN IF YOU DO IT YOUR SELF. And if you have someone else doing the job will you probably could buy a new boat for what it will cost to have someone else do it for ya.
Here’s the deal. What ever you think it will cost add 50 to 65% more to the cost and you got it right and what ever the length of time you think it will take double it and you are in the ball park and YOU BETTER LIKE DRINKING BEER OR YOUR NEVER GET DONE.
This is not a Logical Decision one makes, this is a Labor Of Love. People buy antique paintings for millions of $$$ and old cars for hundreds of thousands of $$$ we do boats for one of two reasons WE LOVE OUR SEACRAFTS, or GOD is punishing us with a lot of work for something we did to make him mad.
I put in over a year / 150 days of work and $32,000 to do my boat. If I were to think about this thing logically I could have bought a real good 5 year old boat that didn’t need anything done for approx the same amount of cash.
We Are One Sick Group Of People Here and if you hang around long enough you could get infected with a obsession that will never get better so you just got to give into it and do one your self. Bottom line is this there are a lot of guys here that could buy any boat they want others want a great boat for approx 50 cense on a buck but after you do one your self you will be more proud of your accomplishment and boat that if you got a new one of any boat manufacturer on the market. That why I really look at my boat as a
23’ SeaCraft CUSTOM BUILD BY KEN. I know that might not make any sense but it is true never the less.
FellowShip [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

Thanks for the thoughts. In an effort to keep the cost down and yet speed up the work, what about using a body shop for some of the work? Would they be less expensive yet more professional than a boat yard? Here in the Northeast bodyshops get a labor rate about half that of a boat yard and are used to cranking things out quickly. Just a thought.

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

There are guys that want a 23' anything, and then there are guys that want a 23' SeaCraft. Most of the guys on this site wanted an SC and did what they had to do to get one.

Many times I think of these boats just like the Bertram 31 guys think of theirs - a classic that is worthy of the time, money and effort they may need to become seaworthy again. Strick and Fellow-Ship hit the nail on the end when they said "labor of love".

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

BIG, Do you have a boat you're thinking of, or are you testing the waters? There are some independent glass guys in RI that are good and more reasonable than going to a boat yard per se.

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

Just picked up my 79' Sceptre which is finally finished after being held hostage in a L.I. glass shop. At that time I agreed to a $10,000 cap on restoration, mostly cosmetic. During the project we discovered it needed a new fuel tank, and I added bottom paint w/boot stripe. After many months of delays, the boat was finally done. During the project, I paid them $10,000 as they went along, so I thought I'd owe around $1,200 on completion. When they handed me a bill for an additional $20,000, I thought it was a joke. P.S. I have spent 2 years and thousands in legal fees to recover my boat with a Federal Court order. Took my first ride about an hour ago, and suddenly I am grinning from ear to ear as though I won!! Lots of lessons here...but worth the pain. P.P.S. Does anyone have any idea as to replacing the pedestal helm chair with something else??

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

BIG,
I like you didn't have a years worth of weekends to work on the boat. Nor could I afford to put it in the hands of a yard for a complete restoration. Some work was done in house (family), and some was out sourced. I bought the boat, a 23' CC in Sept. 2003. It was totally stripped in house in Oct.- Nov. Out sourced to a good glass guy to repair decks and transom in Dec.- Jan. Out sourced to a good paint guy to Awlgrip interior and exterior in Feb.- Mar. All the rest of the work, gas tank, hardware, rubrail, engine, rigging and what ever else you can think of was done Apr.- Jun. It was launched on Fathers Day 2004. Not to shabby! All tolled it was half the cost of a new one, but twice as good. There's nothing like owning a vintage SeaCraft.-PF [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

Aj

I realize you may not want to mention the name of the glass guy that did a number on you, but I am looking to get my transom redone on Long Island.....are there any particular towns I should avoid? Does anyone know a good glass shop on L.I. that is reasonable?

Thanks B.F.

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

Blackfin, a good guy on LI is Pat Canary of Sandpiper Marine in East Rockaway/Oceanside. I don't have his number but I think infomrmation could help you. Although I've never had work done by him, I hear he's reasonable and excellent craftsmanship.

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

OSGOPH for short...

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

I'll put my 2 cents in here. There are some people that enjoy fishing and there are some people that enjoy working on boats. Then there are some people that enjoy both fishing and working on boats. We have all three groups here on this site. I see the guys across the street tinkering with their Harley's all the time and I just cant figure out what they see in those bikes... I'm sure they think the same about me when they see me tinkering on my boat. A brand new 23 SeaCraft or Regulator with a hard top/leaning post/Livewell/aluminum trailer and all the goodies is going to cost between 60K and 75K these days. Who has that kind of money laying around to spend on a boat? and IMHO taking out a loan on a boat is foolish.... but to each his own I guess. I got my 75 SeaCraft for 13K. I put another 10K worth of fiberglass and countless hours into it and so for 23k I have a boat that will do and go were the new 70K boat will go. Plus it looks just as good and ITS PAID FOR. finally time and money are of minor concern when you are talking about a labor of love.

Being able to turn this:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/DSCN3275.JPG

Into this:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/georgiania1.jpg

And knowing that you did it your self. Can give you a very warm fuzzy feeling every time you look at it. And I look at it almost every day [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Strick

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

Block Island Guy,

Welcome to CSC. I can certainly appreciate your perspective, and you are absolutely correct. You obviously have not been bitten by the "SeaCraft Bug", a hidious affliction that robs you of time and money and perhaps even relationships. But this is, in fact, a site for those that have been, will be or want to be.

I have to agree with Strick that, although I am first and foremost, a boater, I absolutely love to work on boats. Further, I personaly feel that the SeaCraft hull is the best hull design in it's class and has been since the early 1960's when Carl Moesly won a zillion Miami to Bahamas races in the very same hull design.

In a nut shell, you've got to WANT to do this stuff. It doesn't matter what motivates you (cruising, fishing or renovation), because, at the end of the project, you got a the best boat you could have - and you did it!

Best of luck with your choices.

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

i donno if its been said cause i hate reading. but the ultimate benefit is that you get exactly the boat you want when your done. theres no compromising

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

Block Island - I know a guy who does awesome work - Bayshore area LI. He gets good $ for his work, so if you are looking for the cheapest guy around - he is not it - just the best around. He has done quite a few SeaCrafts resto's and is truly a craftsman.

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

Strick, That T-Top is truely outstanding!

Re: Repair/Restoration Costs vs. Benefits
 

Thanks! I just had to put that big pic in there [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I just installed a radar this weekend. Next weekend it's out to the bay for halibut and stripers.

strick