Transom replacement???
 

I have a question for you experts, I was going to replace my transom because I was going to a bracket. The original is in great shape. What a surprise!
I think because it was on a rack and covered it stayed nice. Should I just ad-on to whats there? It would sure be a lot easier then pulling a solid no rot transom.
It's a 86 walkaround.
I will also build up the stringers and rewinforce the transom for the brackets. Any thoughts?

Re: Transom replacement???
 

BigMike,
Even though that transom may appear in good shape, there's probably some dampness in the wood core. After 19 years, it's bound to happen even if the boat was rack stored and the moisture meter didn't pick anything up (they're not always accurate). You might want to drill some core samples first to see how good the transom is. If you don't get any damp wood or water weeping out of the holes, you could probably go ahead with slapping the bracket on. Are you just leaving the transom open or enclosing it? If you're enclosing it, then you may want to redo the entire transom at the same time.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

ScottM Said it pretty well. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The only thing that I would add is if it does prove to be dry Hemco has a filler panel to close it in.
http://www.hermco.net/bracket.htm

The addition of a livewell back there may not be a finished off enough piece to suit you. Then it would be a custom deal.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

I agree too with what Scott said. The other thing to consider is dry rott. Over time that seems to happen. Tough an '86 is probably a little new for that.

My thought is, if your going threw the trouble of putting a bracket on, and all that goes with it, just do it right the first time. Putting in a transom ain't no big deal.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Maybe for you...

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Then why do you keep hassling Patton to help you out tough guy? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Sorry gents....but I am going to disagree (politely).

Even if the original transom is in good shape, he cannot simply slap on a bracket. The transom was not designed for this.....and the combination of the bracket's weight plus the vertical, horizontal, lateral, stress that it will place on the transom will cause it to fail miserably.

The original transom will need to be reinforced from the inside with additional supports (knees, crossmembers, etc)before the bracket can be added.

In my opinion, you should start from scratch and rebuild/rengineer the entire transom so that it can support a bracket.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Simple...he needs someone to hold the open the beer can and slip the straw in cuz his hands are covered with epoxy and fiberglass [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Thanks guys, I agree with Ed on the reinforcement and thats what I had planed. The knees and a conecting platewith an aluminum channel to even load across the stringers.
I quess my thought is if the orriginal is in good condition wouldn't it be hard for me to get the same adhesion to the boat(more air pocketd and thick resin areas) behind the new transom.
I noticed Hermco cuts out the whole transom sometimes. I think in sears scale of good better best, Thats best.
I don't know of a hermco type company out hear (I wish) and even with all my boat experience I could not do the buetiful job they do.
I will core the hull but the bolt holes were dry and clean.
I may rethink the hermco ad-on.
Thanks , you guys are the best. I know of no other website except maybe classic miko site that has this great kind of knowlage. I go to a lot of boat making sites too.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Good point Ed. That part had slipped my mind when thinking of this.
Installing tose piece's is pretty difficult if the floor hasn't had some cutting on it.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Wait till you get our bill...

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Cause I need a second pair of hands putting in the core. Ya punk! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Scott sent me some good info off line that was appropriate to post on the thread.
I will be checking out the potter bracket from Hermco. Has anyone put one on by themselves? Any feed back?

Re: Transom replacement???
 

I thought you guys would like this little thread I ran into today regarding transoms I don’t know these guys but Sh** happens.


http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/078027.jpg
Friend of mine just sent me this photo of a 1989 Grady White that was repowered with brand new F225s a few days ago. They took the rig out for a sea trial and after about 2 hours the motors made for the bottom of the Pacific Ocean somewhere a few miles west of Los Suenos in Costa Rica. Appears that the transom was rotten and everyone is now pointing fingers at someone else. Repower there cost $38,000.00. I do not have any further facts.

FellowShip [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Transom replacement???
 

I disagree. The use of a bracket will spread the load bearing area and stiffen the transom. Is a fact,not just my opinion. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Transom replacement???
 

One of those "Coulda' been worse " Deals. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Transom replacement???
 

My brother say's the exact same thing and he's a mechanical engineer w/ a PE. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Transom replacement???
 

I know that the bracket is better and going to stffen the transom if attached well, my reason for distributing the load to the stringers is because I have a longer and rougher trip to the ocean then you guys.
A trailer boncing the motor up and down on a bracket pulls away from the hull. The bolts will compress the wood and become loose. That's why I plan to ad on some wood and braces up the hull on the stringer and ad the knees because the deck will be cut down to get rid of the outboard well. It's small not like the big ones some of you have, about six inches. But still it will support the deck and I will create a flush below the deck cross brace. Then a flush hatch and I get a little more fishing room. That's my guess anyhow...

Re: Transom replacement???
 

BigMike, IMO redo the the transom, and instead of using 3/4" or 1/2" ply use 1/4" or 3/8" and put two layers of mat in between. The more glass you get in there the stronger it will be. The transom will then be bullet proof.

BTW, the knees won't help you any. If you have excessive flex they'll give.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

I was wonderin about that. If I did I would bag it on the table first. Then install it. Double bullet proof.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Hi Don-

I know you have a ton of experience restoring boats and transoms and obviously you have a business that sells beautiful brackets which promote a "bolt on" application. I also can definitely see why adding a bracket distributes the load over a greater surface, especially on a new boat.

However, I still think that "blindly" recommending that one simply bolt on a bracket to an existing 10, 15, or 25 year old transom without doing anything else is unwise for the following reasons:


1) Liability and safety- many people who visit this site don't have a ton of experience (or are continually learning, like myself) with this stuff and I would hate to see someone loose their hard earned money (or their life)because of a bracket/transom failure.

2) While many older transoms appear to be okay on initial inspection, often upon closer inspection they are in dire need of replacement due to water intrusion/rot, termite/worm damage, delamination from hull, etc. Overlooking these potential areas of concern and slapping a bracket in my mind constitutes a band-aid approach.

3) Finally, if you are going through the expense of adding a bracket to an older boat, in my opinion, you're better off spending the extra money/taking the extra time on rebuilding the transom so that you can start off with a clean slate.

Call me overly cautious.....but this is how I was taught to do it and I would just sleep better knowing that I spoke my mind.

-Ed-

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Hi Ed, Maybe a bit hard on Don, we have decided that a good inspection of the transom is necessary before it could be left on. I think the fact that he makes or sells a product has nothing to do with recomending it as it is in his mind a good product. I think it is and may get one.
On some of the marlin sites I belong to I sometimes recomend my stuff because I thinks it may be the best for someone.
I know tapping on wood is the way many people test the transom but I know from many years of repaireing boats the best way would as i've done checked around the through holes like the engine bolts and scuppers and of course the drain plug.
Those being like new, I will drill small holes in the corners and along the top.
If still clean good holes I won't take out the whole transom just fill in the top and step scarf the piece in.
My method to conect the bracket to the hull more and the transon less should give me strenth I want.
I got a lot of good info from emails that are a real help. And some great on line stuff. Thanks guys, I'll photo log it as I go.
BigMike

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Actually, I was not trying to be hard on, Don. He has my complete respect and is an asset to this community. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to judge "tone" on email/websites, etc. and often what is simply a matter a difference of opinion is often miscontrued as a personal attack.

What I was trying to do was give you the most information to make the best decision that was right for you while also making others aware of the pontential problems associated with old transoms.

Put it this way, if I ever add a bracket to Mako (or maybe even a pilothouse), Don would be the first person I called.

Ed

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Speaking of which. Is there a new Pilothouse to fit the 8ft beam boat's?
I throught I'd read something about that in the past, but never asw any pix's or more imfo.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Ouch! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Guys....
 

this is sometimes the problem with Internet chat, two guys who have the same intentions, getting a little lost in the verbage - you're both on track, methinks.

BigMike - I was wondering if your boat is a OB, or IO, and if OB, do you have the single wide, or double wide motor cutout ?

Also I wanted to point out that there is alot of difference in brackets - for instance, my bro converted a 23 Sea Bird from IO, to bracketed OB - he used a single engine Armstrong bracket, which at the point it connects to the transom, has a fairly small footprint, not that much bigger than an OB's attach footprint. Conversely, a double motor bracket, and especially something like the Hermco/Potter bracket, has an even bigger footprint.

The bracket attach footprint is important - because that directly translates to spreading the load out over a greater area, which results in reducing the forces, and functionally strengthening, the transom.

In my brothers boat, it had an old OMC first generation oudrive, and a 350-V8. He pulled the motor, pulled the outdrive, and then plugged the original hole in the transom, with plywood and fiberglass. Then they went inside, and glassed in a big plate of 3/4" plywood, covering probably 2/3 of the transom area - much, much bigger than the plug put into the old outdrive hole. Then bolted up the armstrong bracket, thru the transom and support plate, adding a beefy pice of aluminum angle iron inside the transom - further spreading the load uniformly across the transom. He's been running this boat with no problem in the seas off MV for the last three years, since doing the conversion, and I can attest that it scoots nice with a single 235 on the back.

I'm not familiar with the bolt up pattern of the Hermco bracket, and in the early stage of this thread, BigMike mentioned something about possibly fabricating his own bracket - either way, I think remembering the key element of spreading the load out across the transom will be significant - and if it were me, I would be adding probably two, or maybe three knees, to further spread the load forward and down, into the hull/ stringers, as well - probably depending on whether I was going to hang a single, or twins, off the bracket.

and Mike - given what you said about nasty trailering conditions, I'd also keep in mind an idea about using a transom saver support rod, or two, for the trailering - though that might be a bit difficult to rig up with bracketed OB's.

just some stray thoughts.

Bill

Re: Guys....
 

Bill, Thanks for all your info, I wasn't trying to offend anybody but I wanted to say that I didn't think that Don was blindly recomending anything because we had talked about transom condition right off.
Back to road conditions...Baja sucks road wise. I've found it easier to tow off road then on in some places. Picture driveing over speed bumps or parking stop. Add to that dead cows around some of the curves and live ones plus throw in over aged over crowded buses on two wheels doing seventy MPH around those mountain top curves. While the people inside are cheering and holding livestock.
I was going to make a brace to hold the outboards up but I really believe in a belt and susspenders in cases like that.
Loading accross the transom is good but the strongest places on the transom are on the bottom and side as well as the stringers. Because I'm taking out the back of the deck it allows me to get the best access to the stringer wich to some extent are the most important components to the boat being strong, like a keel on a wooden boat.
If you look at the pictures on Hermco site, I believe that's the best way. The diference is that I will use the aluminum to save a few pound per side and as I said I will try to keep bolt compression to a minimum. That is that the wood could compress and let the bracket work on the transom.
If I do replace the transom I will cut it completely out, Not just recore it. That's my plan anyhow. I haven't found any rot so far.

Re: Guys....
 

You know, I am still thinking about putting a bracket on my 20' Seafari some day. (I love the Potter Blue bracketed Seafari hull on Hermco's web site!)
I know Ed had "good" intentions on posting his opinion on valid points and he even apologized to clear up the "tone".

So why does Hermco re-quote with Ouch? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I can only hope that Hermco can reply(glad he is OK after Wilma!) to clear this up. It looks like we are all on the same page(as OldBluesPlayer mentioned). If money was not an issue, no debate, rebuild to full transom. Since most of us are on a budget, we consider other options and phased approaches.

If I go this route, I was planning on the phased approach. Bolt up the bracket and see how things work out and take it easy … near the end of a season. The rebuild transom to full over the winter and then resplash in the spring.

Did not mean to keep pissing on the fire ... sure I do, I clicked on the submit button! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Finster: do you (or any of the CSC members) know of "carbon fibers" to reinforce the transom on the inside? Thanks for your info, aaf

Re: Transom replacement???
 

aaf Do you mean where to buy it? Or has anyone used it?

http://www.fibreglast.com/showproduc...0Tapes-15.html

Re: Transom replacement???
 

I mean has anyone used the carbon fibers? I don't recall having read anything on these fibers in the postings. How are they inbedded in the fiberglass, and where should one place them for maximum transom strength on a boat w/bracket and 225 hp outboard? - Thanks for comments, aaf

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Carbon fiber is used mostly like fiberglass cloth. I dyed some glass to look like carbon with indian ink. just for cool factor. Fiberglass cloth would still be my choice for a transom. The kind of strength you want, carbon won't really give you. Also, pricey big time.

Re: Transom replacement???
 

Thanks for info BigMike. -- aaf

Re: Transom replacement???
 

I dont think it would be first choice for a fishing boat transom. It's mostly used in hulls of go fast boats. You see it a lot in the dash or instrument panels of boats. Here is a old link; http://www.classicmako.com/forum/top...chTerms=carbon,fiber

strick

Re: Transom replacement???
 

I think I rek'on'ize the Oil Platform ! Man0Man, miss that fish'n off em' too ! Nice "Red Snapper" !

My dash had the epoxy poured over the dash when I got it & after a few Hard runs it started cracking,bubbling & popping off. Looked really Bad.But then it was in pretty bad shape everywhere.Thanks for the Pix! Can You believe I got dunked ! No pics from Bartenders-Coluumbus- Well there ain't a Fantasy Fest this Year yet.
Scream'n Reels'
Tug [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
Yhere's a fellow down here that will carbon fiber bout' anything Ya give him. Mostly auto parts.Havn't seen him in a while,did great work.