Seafari Stern
 

Im sorry to beat to death the "stern seaworthiness" of the Seafari. My 23CC was virgin, and had the well around the outbord. This was very effective if a wave washed over the stern. The 20seafari does not have such a well designed stern protection. I think I want to build something to minimize this problem. Any suggestions?
I inherited my dads 18 foot 1964 Imperial a long time ago. This is pretty much an unknown boat, but it was extremely well built. Actually built in Hollywood FL.
There was no bilge, a totally sealed deck. But there was an upwardly angled cover where the motor was mounted with outlets so that if a wave did wash over, most of the water would hit the transom and wash off and what was left would drain out.
I took this boat in heavy seas, and since the bow was covered, and it had a "step v" it took on 4-6 relatively well. If for some reason my engine had stalled, and I had trouble putting out a "sea anchor", I would have been ok for a little while had my stern turned toward the oncoming sea.....
This probably all sounds stupid, but I do plan on crossing to the BS, and Dry Tortugas, and in my dreams Cay Sal. I have done it before in the 23 (not Cay Sal), and the 20seafari seems very sea worthy aside from the stern problem.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
By the way, whoever sent me to info on the 140 4 Johnson- thank you- that is a great price.

Re: Seafari Stern
 

If you look at these specs on this site(link below), there is a splashwell made for the 20' Seafari outboard;
web page

Mine has one and decided to leave it off for now. I have yet to see a wave crash through the well area.

Last Sat was a good test heading in from Stellwagen with the NE blow right on my a$$. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

- Nick

Re: Seafari Stern
 

G -

I agree with CSN - I hadn't had an outboard since 1988, been I/O ever since, till now with my Seafari, and I was worried about the OB cutout, and apparent lack of freeboard back there - mine is still cut for a 20" shaft motor.

But, I've been out trolling in what became 4-6's, including stern to, and quartering on the stern, and have yet to take on water (knock on wood). When I did my rebuild of the transom, I thought alot of building an inner splashwell wall, and may still do it, but after a number of outings, I'm much less convinced I that even need one.

Of course, I have a V4-115 hp Johnson, lighter than your 235 - didn't get a chance to reply to your other post before, but yes, I can hit 30 mph (gps measured) easily in smooth water, with me, my 240 lb son, and a full tank of gas, the battery is in the starboard rear compartment, the port rear compartment is a built in fishwell, not removable, and was full of water and fish (blues), so some extra weight in the back as well.

Bill

Re: Seafari Stern
 

Bill/G,

Mine is a 25" shaft Zuki DF140 at ~420lbs. The previous motor was a Yami V4 115HP (looks the same as the 115HP Johnson, was there a lawsuit, cant recall)which moved it along nicely.

Anyhow, i need to think about it more this winter, but i may raise the rear boxes to the gunnel height and make a folding splash well door or close in the transom/bracket idea.

In my opinion, these boats needs some work in the rear more to keep people in the boat [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img], rather than seas out.

- Nick

Re: Seafari Stern
 

CSN - where do you boat out of? keep it in the Saugus River? - how long a run out to Stellwagon ? I assume you were out chasing little tunny? I have, so far, mostly launched out of Hampton, NH, but have also come down to Gloucester and launched from there.

this whole Seafari stern topic is certainly interesting = wonder if we can get Don/ Hermco to get some direct insight from Bill Potter on the performance of his bracketed Seafari?

Those half height seat boxes in the stern do present some interesting thoughts, if one really wanted to get into some major redesign/ rebuild. Mine has an integral fishbox on the port side, when I redid my transom, I thought about cutting that out, as it slopes inward, inside of the port stringer, and has a drain out thru the transom, near the center. removed, I could have put a second battery on the port side, balancing the one in the starboard side, and then also had a clear shot at putting two knees in, off the stringers, up to the outboard notch - that would have been the ultimate stiffening redesign, but I wanted to preserve the fishbox and the original design - but in use I find those rear seats just about useless, nobody likes sitting back there with the engine noise right next to you.

I really like what Peter Alari did with his 20 CC, and now I'm brewing a thought, along the lines of, raising the height of those seat boxes by about 6 - 8 inches, maybe a little more, but not to full gunnel height, still low enough to be able to reach down in to the hull to work on stuff, and then building a wall across between them, to increase the splashwell height. A lot of cogitating yet to do on this.

Love to hear thoughts from other Seafari owners.

Bill

Re: Seafari Stern
 

Hey Bill,

I boat out of my driveway, then Saugus River [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. It is ~25nm to NW corner of Stellwagen.

My opinion is that the low stern seats need to be raised. If full gunnel height, access doors can be built so reach down would not be an issue.

I am not sure if all 20 Master Anglers are the same, but they seem to have full height transom boxes. Add a splash board for the motor well, done. Check them out.

For me it is about landing the "big one" on this boat. I need to work off one of the aft corners to have something to lean against and the extra storage space would help!

Let see what others think ....

- Nick

Re: Seafari Stern
 

Nick -

take a look in the For Sale page - the 18' CC - good pix of the stern layout... that what you're talking about ?

More food for thought !!!

got a long/lat for the NW corner of Stellwagon ? found it on the charts, but hard to tell what you mean by NW corner - I see that referred to frequently in ReelTime ecellant fishing site - looks like an easy run from Gloucester.

Bill

Re: Seafari Stern
 

Yeah,

That 18' transom is what i am talking about!
What do you think? Or other Seafari guys think?
Don't be shy ... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

NW corner is roughly 42 23.790 N 70 28.015 W
Out of Gloucester is ~12 miles.

Good spot to troll around for tuna during the season along with a good whale show! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

- Nick

Re: Seafari Stern
 

Thank you everybody for your input.
I see a few of you go out into the Gulf of Maine/ out of MA.
So, apparently the Seafaris handle the ocean well. I think I told you guys that I live in Maine, but I am moving back down to Miami. With my 23CC I used to fish a great deal, but, now I'm more concerned about making the boat seaworthy.
I plan on going offshore/Bahamas/Dry Tortugas etc. (not that the two are mutually exclusive) I will mostly be diving.
So some of you mentioned that the 115 was sufficient? (as I said, I do not care about speed, but reliability, and economy) So, I think then I will consider the V4 130. That sounds like plenty. Do any of you have a 4 stroke V4? Are they truly more reliable than the 2s? These all seem like idiotic questions but I have been in Maine for 5yrs now, and have not even thought about all this since. I'm totally psyched to restore my boat. Since everyone has said that the 235 is relatively light, Im trying to figure out why the guy filled in the scuppers.
Thanks everyone

Re: Seafari Stern
 

Just don't troll your expensive tuna gear on top of the bank, the blues will have a field day. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: Seafari Stern
 

That 235 is still heavy enough to allow water in through the scuppers, especially when two 175-200# guys are standing in the back. EBEACH has a 20 Sceptre with a V4 130 Yammie. Combined with the light weight of the engine and the added weight of a full windshield and deck, his scuppers didn't let in much water when him and I were out tuna fishing last summer. I would think that same engine on the 20 Seafari would create similar, if not better, results.

Re: Seafari Stern
 

G - as mentioned by Scott, I would think a V4-130 would be the ideal engine for a 20" Seafari. Yes, mine is a 115, and gets up and goes nice - WOT is ~30mph, I don't care about speed either, but a good 24-25 mph cruise on a calm day, in these soft riding boats, is nice to have - and with the 130, it would be easier on the motor to achieve, which should mean higher reliability for the motor that's not working so hard, so, yeah, when I go to repower, I'll be looking for a V-4, 130 - 140 hp, and it will be a two cycle, to stay lighter than a 4 cycle.

CSN - yeah, I like it !!! Only thing is, that boat has a square cut outboard notch, the sides are verticle, whereas mine has sloping sides.... but I think something can be done !

and Scott.... so, my man... ya got a problem with the blues [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ???

"oldbluesplayer".... love the blues on guitar or fish - when I was a wee kiddy, growing up in Conn, my father used to take me and my brother out in LI Sound blue fishin, we've been hooked ever since. My next first upgrade, will be a decent, dual axle trailer, so I can feel more comfortable towing this rig around.

G- and that takes me back to you - and economy. The 20' Seafari, with a 115 - 130 motor, is a lite weight package, that has amazing seakeeping capability, a soft ride, good fishability, and is a reasonable rig to tow. I haul mine with a 6 cyl Jeep Grand Cherokee, and can cruise down the highway in level terrain at 65 without killing anything, and with a full tank of gas in the boat (47 gal tank), out fishing for 8 hours, and come back in with plenty of gas to spare. Given the gas situation this past summer, I'm plenty happy with it. Sure, having a 23 would be nicer, but not needing the bigger motor, the bigger tow rig, or the bigger gas bills, is also pretty darn nice.

Bill

Re: Seafari Stern
 

All the 20' M's Ive seen have the full height transom boxes as do the later 20SF's of My 20 MA has a molded 1pc full height splash well thats a bolt on. I think it was a factory option. I like the 2 pc. gate better because you can let at least some of the water out and it doen't intrude into the cockpit area.

Re: Seafari Stern
 

Only when they interfere with SBFT, stripers and albies. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Seafari Stern
 

gaulois - Roy's Zancudo Lodge in Golfito Costa Rica has 10 boats powered by twin Suzuki 115's. They claimed to be logging 2000+ hours on the motors w/o any problems (that was a year ago) and cut fuel consumption numbers in half.

You might email them and get details.

Re: Seafari Stern
 

here are some pics of the back of my 1971 20'. because it had duals the transom opening is very large. I have had waves crash in and taken on alot of water in rough seas while reversing and never had a problem. Water comes in hits spash door and gones out. A few times I had water come in with door down but still drianed out. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...e2/inside2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...sure2/back.jpg

Mike_D ...
 

Would you have a picture showing the stern, from the inside, with a larger / wider view - showing the whole rear end from side to side - preferably with the cockpit floor in the forground ? Are there any seats, or other enclosure, either side of the motor cutout/ splashwell area ?

That would be appreciated -

I'm noting that it looks like your double wide motor cutout, is even wider than Nicks, whom I thought had the double wide, but still has seats on either side, as opposed to mine being the single wide motor cutout - interesting variations

Thanks

Bill

Re: Mike_D ...
 

I have this one,

Mike http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2/DSC00207.jpg

Mike - Thanks !
 

just the shot I was looking for !!!

That makes three variations on 20' Seafari sterns -

yours I'll call a wide double, no seats/boxes adjacent

Nicks is a narrow double, with adjacent seat boxes

and mine is a single, with adjacent seat boxes

Curious. Yes, with that much exposure in the rear, I can imagine you've taken a few across the stern, and from the last pic, I see you still have the original thru hull scuppers intact, and you report they've worked fine.

I'd be interested to know, and probably Galois would, how yours performs with that Suzi 115 ?

Thanks

Bill

Re: Mike - Thanks ! / Bill are you sure? .....
 

Bill,

I think my stern is the same as yours?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-216F.jpg

I would say mine and yours are the single/ adj boxes and Mike's is certainly open for a double.( I would call it the NE tuna door option! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

I wonder if the double option was on early years only and then went to the single only on later years? Mine is a 1979.

Does that leave only 2 original transom outboard configs for the 20' Seafari?

- Nick

Nick -
 

What I notice in yours, is the port seat hatch hinge width, is much narrower than the starboard side hinge width, like by about half; not the case in mine. Also noting where the upper motor mount bolts are, in relation to the rest of the splashwell structure, granted the Suzi and the Johnson may have different motor bolt patterns, though I would guess not all that different - I'll have to measure mine for the length of the bottom of the transom cutout - It also looks like your transom doesn't provide a full back to the seats.

I wish I had the same pic available, don't right now, but have these two which I think will show some of the difference -

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/000_0276.jpg

I'm out of town tonight, but will shoot the comparable interior / transom / seats pic this weekend and get it up here - I'm convinced there are 3 variations showing here. By the way, mine is a '73.

Nick - do you have a built in fishwell under the port side seat, like mine, or a lift out baitwell, like the specs page talks about, or just open storage?

I think maybe from this pic, you can see that there is darn little addional width on mine, past the motor.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...edandready.jpg

If you go to the home page here, and look at the 20 footers, I'd say mine looks just like Hammer's 20 CC, while your's appears to be just like Tim Dugans 20CC.

So back to rebuilding the stern section, doing away with the seats, and building an improved splashwell / gate, kinda like that 18 cc - if you put in a subfloor, or extended the cabin sole, so that the batteries, one on each side, were raised up, and easier to get to, would that have a significant impact on balance, or create other issues?

I'm beginning to like this design concept alot, and am tempted to lay it out over the winter, but really want to figure out the variables and get it right - as it stands, looking back on my recent transom rebuild, there are a bunch of design related things I wish I had done different, rather than just rebuild the way it was - just for example, putting a larger radius in the lower corners of the transom notch, and then having the side of the notch be vertical, rather than sloping....

groping... and learning... and having fun

Bill

Re: Nick -
 

Hum ..... very interesting. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I see your point. From looking at others in the 20' section, I would say as a guess that transoms changed later in 1973? I think only Mike D transom style can take dual motors, I doubt that my opening could take dual motors?

As for the port stern deck box hinge, that pocket was probably for added clearance for the solid rotory cable steering system versus the older mounted cable/pully system mounted in the splashwell.

As for my stern boxes, i have mounted the trim tab hydraulic pump and SS racor filter in the port box and use the star box as my emergency anchor locker.

I cut a Bomar hatch in the middle of the splashwell, made a shelf on top of the main middle stringers and mounted the 2 batteries inside with a dual battery switch.

- Nick

Re: Nick -
 

The suzi 115 has been great. I had it in the 30's on gps and it pushes fine with five men on board. Ill post some more pics this weekends of cutouts in the splashwell where the battery is and so.

Mike

Re: Nick -
 

Mike D- Thanks for the info. Your "Zuke" 2 cycle has not given you any trouble such as reeds, electronics, etc?
Im wary of 2cycles, other than the 1979 70hp rude I had.
But my merc 225 was great for about 2yrs (new engine), then the problems started- reeds, electronics, etc etc etc.
Also, the post about the splash board is great. I think I will probably do that. Im jealous of your functioning scuppers however. As soon as I get down to Miami, Im going to analyze the situation. Someone had mentioned that Whaler sold kits.
Thanks everyone. It seems like the Seafari group is a pretty tight bunch, which is great. I had the 23CC, and no doubt they are incredible boats, but like one of you said- the Seafaris are- less weight, need less hp, are seaworthy because the bow is covered, and....you can sleep in them, which is great. Ive got about 3 weeks left before I transfer out of Maine. Cant wait to attempt to solve the seafari probs.

Re: Nick -
 

Oldmanblues-
Mine is also red. The original gel is in great shape, other than the oyster gashes on the bottom. Thats an old 115 you have. Its still pushing the boat ok you said (w/200lb son!).
Ill send pics as soon as I get back to Miami.

my inside / stern shot
 

for comparison with Mike D's, and CSN's (which are back on pg 1)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...nside-rear.jpg

I did some measuring, my seat lids are 19" wide, and the bottom of the transom cutout is 21 1/2" wide. Nick - would be interesting to know what yours are, in comparison - just from the two equal pix, it looks like yours is considerably wider - I'd be willing to be that two 70's vintage motors of 60 - 70 hp could be mounted in there.

So getting back to the original question by Gaulois - doing something to improve the stern seaworthiness is really going to depend on which flavor you have - Mike's is the most wide open, yet already has a good splash board, Nick's is pretty open, especially for how far out he goes, yet he's reported no problems, and mine is really alot tighter than I thought, and I've had no problems, so far, even trolling in 4 - 6's..... but I still don't really feel comfortable with it.... and on one occasion when my son hooked up with a big bruiser, which was stripping line out fast, and my first inclination was to back down on it, but then I looked at the swells, and turned the boat to chase the fish.

Nick - your placement of batteries, fuel filter, trim tab pump, etc, makes alot of sense, also tells me that you don't have the fishbox under the port seat - here's a pic of mine -

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2.../fish-well.jpg

It's amazing how much different these same boats are!

G - yes - thats an '83 Johnson 115 V-4, this was a one owner boat before me, guy bought it new in 73, repowered with this motor in 84 (leftover 83) he was probably 50ish when he bought the boat, now in his 80's, hadn't really used it much the last 6 years, and wasn't a troller, was more of a drift fisherman - the old chum bucket was still in the boat when I got it - I don't know when they changed power ratings on outboards from at-the-powerhead to at-the-prop - but it gets up and goes nice - a shade over 30 measured by GPS, which is plenty unless it's flat calm out.

Bill

Re: my inside / stern shot
 

As far as taking waves over the stern, it was a concern of mine as well so I had the original battery box and livewell raised full height when the new transom went in with the idea of putting a "gate" forward of the engine but have yet to do so (when conditions are that sloppy in S. Florida, I simply do something else that day). So far, the new floor being nearly 3" higher than original has taken care of most water issues entirely. Anyhow, here are the redone stern area compartments - the base of the livewell is at floor level so it drains via gravity:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/a1.jpg

Re: my inside / stern shot
 

ikan - were can i find some more pictures of that thing, she looks like a beauty.

Re: my inside / stern shot
 

Hey Bill,
Your boat is practically identical to mine aside from yours having bottom paint. Mine is a 73 also and has the exact stern that yours has with the stern compartments/batteries.
My port side box was converted into a live baitwell. Im not shre what Im going to do about that. I used to troll in SFla and would troll w/ fresh ballyhoo, and keep live bait in the well. When I hooked into schoolie dolphins, I'd drop a deep line w/ live bait fish for any possible hunting Wahoos below... Ok, so back to reality- Im analyzing this all virtually as I am separated from my boat. But from all the help on this board, I have come to the conclusion that the scuppers were leaking, and thats why they were pulled and glassed/texed over. To restore scupper action, likely the best is to route out the stern, but Ill have to think about that. As for the stern seaworthiness, I think the idea (I forget who it is) of building a foldable splashboard is the simplest near term solution. Its too bad that Im leaving, otherwise I would shoot over to NH and check your boat out. I live near Biddeford on the Saco River, not too far from NH.
Ikan-Besar- You did a beautiful restoration job. V. impressive. Where in S. FL? Looks like fly rods you have. Do you fish in Florida Bay at all? I used to go quite a bit with a smaller boat I had, and then I did go with my 23CC, but its a bit skinny in a many spots, and I was limited as to which basins I could access. Didnt want to damage the turtle grass for future fly fishig generations. I also used to put frequently at Flamingo, and cross Fl. Bay to lower Keys, Key West, then on to the Marquesas.
I would agree with you that if you choose your days, there is no reason really to be obsessd with waves washing over the stern, but since I plan on going offshore/crossings quite a bit, the weather can change very quickly way out in the Gulf Stream. It can be frightening, and if your engine quits, which according to Murphy is always a possiblility, a protected stern would lessen an already deteriorating situation.
Ok, Ive babbled enough. Great input, thanks everyone.

PS- One other question. Looks to me as far as re-canvassing the bimini goes that the best is to use the original design where the canvas snaps to the windsheild. Seems as though it would avoid some splash/spray...

nicks stern
 

Hey Nick,
You have the same model stern that I have. Even though Mike D's stern is different, his folding splash board would work.
I like that idea- a rather simple solution. The rattling is probably nerve racking....
What kind of engine do you have nick? Is that a Suzuki 2 stroke? If so, is it reliable?

Re: my inside / stern shot
 

Ikan Besar,

Interesting picture you posted. Don't mean to steal the thread, but do you know how high the top of your rail is above the deck, mearsured at the fly reels, and is it 3" higher than the original deck all over, or does it pitch up towards the bow?

Re: my inside / stern shot
 

some more pics
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2/DSC00552.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2/DSC00558.jpg

Re: CSickNick
 

My '72 Seafari is like yours, Nick. Anchored up in a strong current with a following sea, my bilge pumps run constantly as water gets past the cable boot around the steering and control cables. The original hole for thse cables is below the level of the transom, so when the engine well fills with water, the boot is underwater. In these conditions, EVERY wave comes splashing into the boat. That's even if I leave the fishwell under the port transom seat dry. I have a '91 Merc 150, plus a 10 hp Force kicker. It's the main reason I installed a second 750 gph pump with it's own float switch 2 inches higher than the main 1000 gph pump. (It's only kicked on once, when the float for the main pump failed.)

Re: my inside / stern shot
 

Mike, the stearn of your boat looks just like my fathers SeaBird.

Re: my inside / stern shot
 

does this side view look like this, just kidding nothing will look like this. But would love to see it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...sure2/side.jpg

Re: my inside / stern shot
 

Steve,
Does he have the 21' or 23'? I have a 1972 23' CC, but my transom doesn't look quite the same as Mike D's because the boat was orignally an I/O converted to notched transom.

Gaulois - re the top/ bimini
 

mine, and I'm guessing from what you said, yours, looks just like Mike D's, the straight off the windshield frame, which leaves you without standup headroom - mine has a zippered hatch above the helm, which you can open up, so that you can stand up straight at the helm.

In the Pictures forum, there's a thread on seafari pix, and part way down is a shot of a white seafari with a blue top, re-done with a vertical isinglass segment, then the bimini, so that there is standup headroom underneath - that is the way I'd go / will go when I redo mine.

I saw this one down on Martha's Vineyard this past summer- damn sure looks like a seafari, especially from other views, I circled around it to be sure, even though the name was removed from the side, transom redone to 25", and a big Merc hangin on it...

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...MV-Seafari.jpg

Bill

Fr. Frank -
 

First, I just wanted to thank you for that mariners' prayer you posted awhile back - I liked that...

On your seafari, with the 150 Merc, are you still at a 20" transom, or did you up it to 25"?

What are you running for a kicker, how mounted, shaft length, etc??? and is it emergency only, or do you use it for trolling? Do you have the steering linked to the main motor?

Where do you have your battery(s) tucked in the starboard side seat well, in the stock location, or relocated like CSN's? With dual bilge pumps, I'm assuming you run two batteries ?

Thanks !

Bill

Re: \"Lets change the subject again ....\"
 

To answer prior questions;
- A four stroke DF140 25" shaft, great motor ... no issues.
- My stern top lids boxes measure ~19" also

Here is a few more pics of my stern setup;

Bomar splashwell hatch;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-881F.jpg

Dual batteries & 1500 bilge pumps & switch;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-880F.jpg

Port box with Racor filter & trim tab pump;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-871F.jpg

Star Box with anchor & main fuse;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-873F.jpg

Inside;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-882F.jpg

Outside;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...k/MVC-883F.jpg

Thats it .... Nick [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Gaulois - re the top/ bimini
 

Yup, that's a 20 Seafari alright. Is that inside Lagoon Pond?