worn out 150's
 

I just purchased a 78 23cc that has a pair of x-flow 150 johnson's that have are still running but worn out, won't idle etc, not worth overhauling. The boat runs pretty good with the worn out 150's 40mph at 4200 rpm, any way due to my limited budget a new motor is out of the question, but I have found a pair of '96 90hp johnson's that have very low hours and are affordable just not shur how the boat will perform with this config. wondering if any one has any experience with a pair of small 4cyl john/evinrude's on the 23 cc ?

Re: worn out 150's
 

scothawk55, I would have to say your going to be under-powered with those. If I were you I'd hang tight til you could find something in the 135 to 175 range (for twins) or a single 225-250 single. I think the boat would be hard pressed to preform well with 180hp.

That should give you plenty of time to do cosmetic's. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: worn out 150's
 

needs some cosmetic's, but not to bad for its age, already paid a friend/glassman to take care of the ugly. dying to go fishin in that boat had a 20' robalo before this, never have i had or been in a better riding boat than the 23cc plus the weather here in galevston tx is just gettin perfect for fishin low 80's.

Re: worn out 150's
 

also these are the original 150hp outboards that came with this boat and i saw on the spec sheet on classicseacraft.com showed the 23cc was offered with twin 70's 85's 115's and so on, also these hp ratings were at the power head not the prop, I would love to do a major overhaul to the boat but us blue collar guys gotta take what we can get or what she'll let us get.

Re: worn out 150's
 

That's a tough call. The twin 90's ill give you enough torque to get upon plane. Try it, you'll be the first I know of with that kind of HP on a 23. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] At a guess I'd say you'd top out at 28-30kts and cruise at 18-20kts, best case scenario.

Re: worn out 150's
 

How about the 250 Yamaha in the for sale section of this site. Its got everything you need.

Re: worn out 150's
 

Scothawk55, go with the twin 90's.. the 150's in 78 were rated at the power head so you looking at maybe 120 at the prop when they were new. The 90's are rated at the prop so, yes they are less power by 30hp but less weight by at least a hundred pounds each motor. I say its a closer swap then what others may think. I'm sure you'll see a top end well in the 30's and a nice 24 to 29 knot cruise with those motors. plus your fuel burn will be better then those old loopers. I took a 1975 115 off my 19 and put an 1989 88slp and only lost two knots..

Re: worn out 150's
 

Once again the flux fumes have gone to your brain. You do realize your going to owe me a case of beer over this. Your numbers aren't even close.

Re: worn out 150's
 

I own a 90 225 johnson and have access to a 250 yamaha for a good price but after a few trips with the old 150's and coming home on 1 motor both times I just really think i want to have twins and according to the performance data spec sheet, that I assume was a original seacraft document, the 23cc that came with 115 omc 4cyl's had a top speed of 42 mph and those 78 115's were making 100hp at best at the prop. I know the 90's will work, and do better than 30mph, I was simply trying to get feedback from someone if there is any one that has had experience with small hp 4cyl john/evinrudes on a 23. And there is a 45lb difference between the 4 & the 6 cyl omc's and as I stated the boat went 40 at 4000 rpm's with the 150's that have a whopping 80 lbs of compression across the 12 cyl's and pipedreamsmarine is correct about the 150's making 120hp at the prop new and with 80lbs of comp. maybe 100hp granted the 6's even worn out will make more torque I am convinced the 90's will make 40mph wot and cruise at an easy 28-30mph

Re: worn out 150's
 

Hey Scothawk55- I agree with twins for offshore and cruising will be acceptable with the 90's. I understand that original specs called for power packages like what your planning. I'm on the side of the ideal set-up being twin 200's on a Seamark bracket, but like you said budget decides your plan. Finster may be buying Don a case of beer if he loses his bet. Also, you gotta remember that it's 32 degrees at Finny's house and when he hears that your fishing in 80 degree weather, and he is looking at scrapping ice off the windshield tomorrow AM, your going to get a bad attitude [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: worn out 150's
 

32 degrees stinks, we may see that 15-20 days a year on a cold year but the down side is may thur sept 95degrees and 100% humidity which equals unbearable fishing weather and i have had the boat 4 weeks 2 trips and ready to fish and come back too.

Re: worn out 150's
 

scothawk55,

nice to know that you are in galveston, i have a 23' too in Houston. any pictures of your boat?

Re: worn out 150's
 

just the one but i'll post some more soon. where do you fish

Re: worn out 150's
 

I really live in santa fe but no one knows where that is gal is easier.

Re: worn out 150's
 

Ok ok, I believe you'll get those numbers too, but your gonna need to be running on fumes in following sea with a 25kt wind to your back. You fill that boat with 100 gals of fuel, stick a couple of fat azz fishing buddies in and see what you get. You'll need to over compinsate with additional beer for the lenghty ride out and that's gonna add even more weight.
Yeah I know all about the omc 88 being an exact 110 after the rating change, Ive had them both. Just remember Merc always rated'em at the prop.

Re: worn out 150's
 

I don't drink or take fatties fishin, usually just me and the my 11 year old son and we mainly bay or jetty fish, i go offshore 3-5 times a year and that only requires 20-30 miles one way to catch. Most of our fishin trips consist of a 5-10 mile trip 1-way. And once again if I had an unlimited budget of course i'd close the transom and go with the 4-stroke 200's but unfortunatly I am a blue collar boy with a limited budget.I work part time nights and weekends with a marine salvage company to support my habit, the up-side to that is at any time that drunk fat azz fisherman you insinuated i was will run his $50,000 boat up on the jetties soon and if we get the salvage maybe i can pick up those 200's you want me to have so-bad.

Re: worn out 150's
 

Welp it sounds like you got it all figure out. Why ask the question if you don't like the answer? Don't matter to me what you put on that boat.

I threw,

Dirk

Re: worn out 150's
 

and after this so will i. in responce to don't ask questions if you don't like the answer, I ask clearly twice for advice from any one who had experience with small 4cly OMC's on a 23, not that I don't appreciate the response but after our conversation i would have to beleive that the experience you have with the 23 seacraft is... well I don't know not with the combo I spoke of. Opinion is just that, thanks for yours.

Re: worn out 150's
 

The 90's will be fine. in the early 80's, when I was at Waterway marina in Palm Beach Garden's Florida, we sold several '23 Seacrafts with twin 115's, and even one with twin 3 cyl. 70 hp Johnsons.
I believe the one with twin 70's did about 28-29 knots (33 mph) at WOT and cruised easily at 23-24 knots. It would NOT, however, get on plane with only one engine. The twin 115's would still plane on a single engine, as long as you tilted the other out of the water.

Re: worn out 150's
 

Frank, thats kinda interesting. What'd it do with the 115's?

I still stand by my numbers for a loaded boat. Sure bare bone's 23, kid on the helm pop on the bow, little fuel....
I don't mine being proven wrong, but I want to see 40mph outta twin 90's on a full 23SC.

Re: worn out 150's
 

One things for sure- you should have dry feet with those lighter engine weights. Fr. Frank- does your church sit near the water? What a storied past for a man of the clergy! Scothawk55-As you have gotten fron this thread an others you have been a part of, the crew here isn't bashfull with their oppinions. That makes the value of info. strong. Briguy has 115's and swears by them. To each his own [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: worn out 150's
 

I believe that bigger is better.

twin 115's may be cheaper and nice, but it's always nice to have the extra ponies behind you when needed.

I have a buddy that has a 25 white water with twin 150's and when its loaded it's a dog.

He has tried to sell it twice but the motors he has was the deal killer.

I know that budgets dictate what some can do, but why not spend a little bit more and not be disapointed.

You can't go back and trade up once they are hanging on the boat. Unless the budget lets you.

on a 23 I would not go below twin 150's

Just my opinion

Re: worn out 150's
 

"40mph at 4200 rpm"

What's wrong with the 150's? If the answer is just that they don't idle well (clean/rebuild carbs, replace/rebuild the fuel pumps, replace fuel filters, decarb the motors, and replace the plugs). Couple hundred bucks in parts (might be less) and a few hours of time and you'll have some happy motors.

After the late 80's the outboard companies started putting all these stupid sensors/computers on their motors to meet EPA requirements . . . IMO these extra friggin electrical components are always screwing things up.

fuel+spark = power (keep it simple) get rid of the other crap.

For Parts:

Brent Gill
www.DiscountOutboardParts.com
Mon-Fri 9am-6pm CST
PH. # 713-910-6294

(These guys are in Texas)
---------------------------------------------------

Re: worn out 150's
 

well the 150's are the original 78's that came on the boat one will run and idle the other will run and idles when cold both motors have seen at least one over haul but the both have low compression on all cyl's 80 lbs + - 2lbs per cyl. The first thing I did when I got the boat was carbs and water pumps, but I have come up with another solution to my problem I have picked up a 1985 150hp that runs real well and is clean with great compression so I will take this motor replace the weaker of my pair and still be able to fish and i'll take the weak one and rebuild it. I sould be able to juggle the three motors at least long enough to save up to close the transom buy the aluminum to build my bracket and for shur by then a clean pair of outboards will come through the salvage yard.

Re: worn out 150's
 

Thanks for the reply Frank think I have my problems solved at least for now. Definetly valuable info and appreciated.

Re: worn out 150's
 

I picked up a 23 SF this summer with a pair of 86 Yamaha- 115. I bought the boat expecting to trash the engines in favorer of a 4-stoke at the end of the first season. To my surprise the motors w/1000+ hours run strong 36 knots WOT, 28 cruse, start easy and are easy on fuel. I troll with one motor and seem to be burning 12-14 GPH on average.
I think 90’s mite be under power but 115-130 will get it done all day!

Re: worn out 150's
 

Scot,

i fish out of both galveston and freeport. my buddy use to keep his boat at the yacht basin. prefer freeport as i could start to fish and troll at 10 miles. my boat is a major project.

Re: worn out 150's
 

I've allways thought that twins were more for Torque / Power? Knot saying They Ain't fast -- Speed would only be picked up bout' 3 knots or so.? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]?
Single engine gets more of Your boat out of the water & less drag of 2 engines.I'll agree that 2 engines are better than 1 when traveling outside. 2 engines Your burning fuel for 2-More upkeep 2wice the maintenance - more weight-You can go in shallower water w/twins.smaller twins vs 1 large single. The good ol' daze 20's with 2win 75's (SF's)! Island Hoppers fo' sho'! Fast & made it thru the nasty stream.23' with 90's? right props ,seems small but then-Go with whats in Your budget cause Ya wanna use it not watch it!Just give us feedback on it
Scream'n reels'
Tug [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
By the way I've seen Snow at Pelican Island & Sabine !

Re: worn out 150's
 

Definatly want to stay with twins decided to spend a little to prolong the life of the 150's so i can save up for bigger and better things. Finster if you see this your persistance played a part in that decision. AS far as the weight issue i have a jon boat for the shallows, gotta love the shallows but we have a huge bay system here and the twins will hopefully insure my return both there and on the trips offshore.
P.S. the snow was great we made 6' snowmen at home in santa fe and on the beach at galveston, thats a once in a lifetime opportunity here in south east texas. Our first and possibly only white x-mas.

Re: worn out 150's
 

scott,

don't blame you, i would prefer 2 well maintained old ones that 1 new one if going offshore.

Re: worn out 150's
 

You would not be happy with twin 90's, the expense of twins completely over rides a single 200 or even an older 235 Rude will work fine. But a Sea Tow membership for 120 and don't do twin anything. The boat runs much better on a single since I had twin 150's on a 23 and switched to a single V8 300HP Rude, the boat was even close same HP but picked up 15MPH and handled so much better. It was a dog with 150's and your going to the expense of mounting twin 90's not a wise move IMHO, find a used 200+ something and a Sea Tow membership [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: worn out 150's
 

I would have to agree coming from commercial background of replacing engines frequently. There is no replacement for displacement. Having an under powered boat is like buying a corvette driving it with all 8 firing then taking 4 of the plug wires off and running on 4. I would keep looking around or find a reputable motor rebuilder and have a chat with him. I have always had a single engine on all of my boats. The only place twins saves you is on a mechanical failure. Most of the time it is a fuel problem which would in turn affect both engines at same time. I purchased a motor form a rebuilder up here in the northeast and ran the motor for 3000 hours before the hour meter broke. Cost of the rebuilt motor 2800 for single 200 johnson. I am a finatic for maintenance and synthetic oils.

Just my .02

Re: worn out 150's
 

I work part time for a salvage/towing company so a seatow membership regaurdless of the cost is kinda out of the question. But who really wants to break down and have to get a tow anyway. Anywho i've already replaced the worst of the 150's that came with the boat and since we've had three good trips one in 20 mph wind with 4-6 footers running about 20mph the boat preformed so good i think it rode as good as the 31 stamas and better than the 26 whaler we salvage with. Anyway for now the power issue is solved so i'll be begining to overhaul the hatch covers one at a time between fishin trips.

Re: worn out 150's
 

What did you do to the 150's so far???

Re: worn out 150's
 

Replaced the worst of the pair with another i had that was in real good shape and went fishing. I have started the teardown on the on the removed motor also and a little reserch on the motors to find that they have 85 power heads on them, that makes me a little happier the titles for the motors say 1980 so atleast they have been thur at least once.

Re: worn out 150's
 

Just as a side note to this topic. I was talking with the gentleman who was New Jersey largest Sea Craft dealer a few days ago and his comment on this topic was that the 23 was at its best with twin OMC V-4's and he sold more Sea Crafts then anyone else... BTW he's a member of this site..

Re: worn out 150's
 

Thanks for the response I felt that the 4cyl's would have worked fine for me but in keeping the 150's I will be able to still fish and spend the cash on some cosmetics namely the soft hatches. I also will be rebuilding the transom soon and closing it up and building a custom bracket the money I saved buy not buying the 4cyls will pay for all the transom materials and the aluminum for the bracket.
I get to see and work with lots of different power/boat configurations at the salvage yard and even though never any sc's w/4cyl's but our 26 boston whaler guardian came with looper 140's and would run 38mph loaded and by the way the guardian's hull is 4inches thick, although i don't have its weight its a very heavy load behind the f350 truck we pull it with. Also ive seen several grady's with the x-flow 4 cyl's on 20 to 25 ft boats that all seemed to preform acceptably.

Re: worn out 150's
 

v4s b/c of the weight?