Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

I refinished the inside gunnels last year on my 23 with gel coat, applied with a foam roller. It came our great with a slight orange peel finish. I guess I'm looking for more gelcoat duct to injest, as I am thinking of knocking down some of the orange peel high spots, so the boat will clean up easier. My question is what type of sander / paper should I be using and is there any special technique (sander speed, etc. ) I need to know about. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Rich

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Knocking down the orange peel should NOT involve ingesting ANY dust. Simply get youself a bucket of water, some 400 (or finer) Wet-R-Dry sandpaper, and a 6" rubber sanding block, for the initial work, and some medium or fine grain rubbing/polishing compound for the next step, and of course some good quality wax for the final finish step.

Mount the paper on the sanding block, dip it into the bucket, then sand lightly, keeping it as wet as necessary to keep the paper from fouling, using alternating direction strokes in a "reasonable size" (12-18" square) pattern.

Every so often, stop, flush the surface off with clear water, dry it, and inspect the surface, to ensure you have removed sufficient highspots. If you're in doubt, go ahead with step 2 anyway, to see what the results are...

PS: Don't be alarmed when you dry it off, as it will loose it's shiny finish from the wet-sanding step. This is just to remove the highspots that show up as orange peel. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Once you've gotten the majority of hte highspots off, break out the compound, and using an absorbent cotton rag/towel, rub the just sanded spot in circular motion, until you have polished out the microscopic hazing/sanding marks left by the wetted sandpaper.

You should soon begin to see the surface begining to get a nice sheen/shine, with no residual orange peel.

If you're not satisfied that you have removed sufficient orange peel, repeat the steps, until you are satisfied with the results.

Once you have the hang of it, you can move on to finish the entire area, then perform a final waxing of the entire surface to help seal it, and make it easier to clean. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Good Luck [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

If I used ob1jeeper's technique on the hull of my 20 I would still be sanding.

I think his technique is great for small areas but for the inside of your gunwales break out a Porter cable 6 inch DA 320 grit and a bottle of DYKEM or similar cutting dye.

Douse a rag with Dykem and rub it on your gunwale. start sanding at low speeds until you get the hang of it. Once you have sanded through the blue dykem you rubbed on the gunwale you are even with the lows in the peel.

keep the sander flat.

after the 320 do what ob1jeeper says.

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Hey Dink-

Here is a post I made several years back in regards to wetsanding and buffing....


"Wet sand the entire hull with 600grit wet.dry sandpaper. Keep the surface very wet while sanding (a spray bottle works best), and squeegee the residue off the area you're working on. Be sure to keep the paper FLAT against the hull and be careful around corners/chines/strakes. If your boat is really old and you don't know how much gelcoat is on the hull....you can skip this or try and do it with 1000 grit paper. The problem with really old boats is you don't know how much gelcoat you have to work with and you DON'T want to burn through it.

AFter you're done with the 600...go back and repeat with either 800 or 1000.

Step 2-

If you don't already have a professional buffer....Go to westmarine or boat us, and buy a 3M wool buffing pad (about $20) that fits onto a standard electric drill. Then, either buy the 3M rubbing compound (red in color - comes in a tall skinny plastic bottle) metioned earlier or even better...use 3M's high gloss gelcoat polishing compound (white/gray in color - comes in a paint type can). Spread some of the compound onto the pad, and then turn the drill on very slow and spread the compound over a 3foot by 3foot area. This will prevent the compound from "slinging" all over the place. Now turn the buffer onto high speed and while pushing hard, work the area left to right and then top to bottom. BE SURE TO KEEP MOVING THE BUFFER SO THAT YOU DONT BURN THROUGH THE GELCOAT. As you work the compound in this fashion, it should start to dissapear.....when it does, DECREASE the pressure on the buffer and it will polish the surface. Wipe off the excess from the entire hull.

Step 3- Now take Starbrite TEFLON polish (or Collinite wax) and rub it HARD onto the hull in small circles with a standard applicator pad in a 3foot by 3foot area. Let the Teflon polish dry to a slight haze (don't wait too long) and wipe off with a soft & CLEAN terry cloth towel. This will remove the swirls caused by the buffer and will also make the hull shine very well. Add a second coat of TEFLON polish in a day or two. I prefer the TEFLON polish over the Collinite because in my experience....it goes on easier, and lasts longer.

Although your arms may feel like they're going to fall off....it will be well worth the effort. Just be sure to take your time and watch what you're doing. I just did this to a boat that looked like it had been left out in the Sahara desert for 10 years."

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Trayder,
The only problem I have with recommending use of power sander to a neophyte, is the likelyhood that they will do more damage than good is pretty high... While it will take longer to do this by hand as you correctly noted that I had recommended), is the likelyhood of accidently creating gelcoat damage that will require re-gelcoating is GREATLY diminished, wehn this type of work is done by hand.

JMHO & $0.02... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Like mentioned earlier, wetsand with 400 all the way to 1000 grit and then hit it with 3-M Super Duty Rubbing Comound.

I wish gelcoat wasen't such a PIA to clear out after applying.

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

If I understand your question correctly - you just want to smooth out your non-skid a bit for easier cleanup. If that's the case, I'd use some 600 with a sanding block to tame the high spots. That'll knock down some of the high points in the finish.

If my assumption is wrong - well - never mind.

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Thank you to everyone that took the time to respond. I understand the pros and cons to each approach.. I am talking about a fairly large area; approx. 3' high by the inside circumference of the boat , probably 40'. That is a lot of hand sanding, so I think I will try both approaches, starting with trayder's first up under the gunnel, so if I cut through the new gelcoat it will not be noticable and I could always reapply when it gets warm. For the tighter places where power sanding will not work the block and wet sand approach will apply. Thanks again. Rich

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Rich - How many coats of gelcoat did you apply with the foam roller?

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

TheDink is not however a "neophyte" even if he was, the use of a cutting dye as a guide eliminates much of the worry of sanding through.

Then again if you do sand through....its pretty easy to re-apply.

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

TIM

I applied 1 fairly heavy coat. I was treated to 50 degree weather today and wet sanded a 3 by 3' area . It started getting dark so I will have to wait until tomorrow, buff it out and see what I have. I will try to take and post a picture or 2 if the weather coorporates. Rich

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Trayder,
Obviously I do not have a sufficient knowledge base of the folks on this site to be assuming there may be lurking a neophyte or two amongst those posting questions requesting information/advice. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

thedink,
If I have offended, in assuming you may not be expert in knocking orange peel, I apologize to you as well. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Best wishes for a successful orange peel correcting experience... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Dink-

Either method will work. I personally don't like using DA's for finish work because if you look carefully, they leave small orbital scratches in the finish....more evident when then paper gets dirty.

Personally, I would try a 2x2 section the old fashion way (600, paper, water and a squeegee) and see how it looks. If it does not knock down the peel enough...you can break out the DA and get more aggressive but even then I would still go back and do a final finish wetsanding by hand.

If it makes you feel better...I have wetsanded and buffed by hand an entire 30 Pearson Flyer. (My arms were like jello though)

I've wet sanded an entire 3o' Pearson Flyer with a spray bottle, 600 paper and a squeeg

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

ob1
I'm curious to see how Rich makes out with the process. I personally can not imagine wetsanding rolled orange peel out of my entire hull !! The area that he is doing is just about equal to doing the hull side ...cept there is alot more nooks and crannys to deal with. I've wetsanded several hulls , including mine, for cosmetic reasons to bring back gloss. There's no peel involved and its still a monumental sp? task ...I HATE IT. Then trying to fair out peel(that was rolled on) with 400 ..WOW. I too have always used a DA to sand gelcoat prior to wetsanding and buffing out. Its always faired out beautifully. Even if you screw it up, sure you'll need to recoat, its not that big a deal. ...I would think doing it all by hand would also lead to variations and irregularities in the surface ... you can get variation in wetsanding(for cosmetics) as I mentioned above and you dont even have to worry about getting the surface smooth.

How many hulls have you finished like this,just wetsanding ?? Talk about alot of work !!! YIKES

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

I tried the wet sanding approach yesterday and I was not very happy with the results. Too much rubbing for too little results.

So I will try the sanding approach!

I do not have any dye. Can you tell me where I can get some and how do you apply? With a small brush? From what you posted, I was assuming I brushed it on and then sanded it off. Also, where can I get 320 grit paper , hook and loop for my 6" porter cable sander? I couldn't find it at the local Lowes or Home depot. They only had up to 220.

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Dink-

I am sorry the wet-sanding did not work.

There is a ton of mis-information in this thread. I strive to keep the info on Classicseacraft.com factual from experience but many people read something on a web-site and then regurgitate the info when they see someone requesting similar info. I see it all the time and shake my head.

The Mako boy's method is dead nuts on when it comes to refinishing oxidized gel-coat.

Unfortunatly, as you now know there is no way you will efficiently cutlarge areas of orange peel from newly applied gel coat with 400 grit wet/dry.

To answer your questions:

Dykem is a cutting dye used by machine shops and places that cut sheet metal. You can buy it at industrial material shops, one place I know that has it in stock is Aquidneck fasteners in Tiverton RI. I have a full bottle in my shop and am happy to let you use it, PM your address and I will get it up to you.

You apply the dykem with a rag, much like applying stain on wood. saturate the rag and wipe on the are you plan on finishing. put it on thin and test it in a small area.

let it dry for a few minutes and then with the sander on 1 or 2 hit the area until the dykem goes away thus leveling the highs/lows, immeadiatly move on once the dykem is gone. It is imperative you keep the D/A flat to the surface you are re-finishing.

You can pick up Mirka brand (my favorite) hook and loop sanding sheets at Burns Power Tools in Fall River Mass. Try not to speand too much time at Burns or you will quickly deplete ant budget you had left for the boat (the place is power tool Mecca)

After you have leveled your area start with 400 wet and dry and work you way up.

A few notes

1: you may need a thicker base of gel-coat, one rolled on layer may very well break through

2: Since I know you used Signature finish on the other areas of you boat you can always fall back on that to refinish this area if your gel is too thin.

3: To all other folks out there (and you know who you are as we exchanged unpleasant PM's) please do not post your methods unless you have actually done them.

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

dink,
I too am sorry the wetsanding with 400, followed by lots of elbow grease with rubbing/polishing compound is more work than you had hoped for.

I'm the "know-nothing" that Trayder is referring to as having ZERO experience. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

No more posting or responding to folks here is NO problem at all...

It's a shame for your members, you don't believe opinions and experiences other than your own, may have some validity. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

PS: Quite the contrary to what you saw as unpleasant PM exchanges, I thought they were pretty informative [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] You simply chose to dislike the answers [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

I am bowing out of this conversation and have decide to refrain from offering future advice.

Dink, good luck with your project.

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Yikes! Talk about a bunch of Mary's getting their panties in a wad....Jeeze. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Dink, I've worked on more boats than I care to remember and I have to say Trayder hit the nail on the head. That's a aw-full large area to cover by wet sanding. Though very effective for small area's.

There are countless boating websites that deal in nothing but read knowledge/opinion. We try to keep the integrity of this site high and there for peoples feelings get hurt from time to time. But if you want the no BS skinny you've come to the right place. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

OB1jeeper

I have posted many times as a novice SeaCraft owner for over 25 years, hoping the knowledge I have gained would benefit others. If I'm wrong,then I'm wrong, so be it!. I take it in stride. That's what forums are for to exchange ideas not turn them into a court battle... however, your post is OUT-OF-LINE! Remarks or comments made within a PM should not be posted.
PM means PRIVATE.....

As one of the SeaCraft Forum Moderators I ask you to keep personal feelings under wraps [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

My technique is Much Easier than all stated above. After I had some one else roll the bottom of my hull with gel coat for me. Then I started using my boat again and think about all the time and work it would take to sand the bottom of my hull which I personally HATE working above my head, then the rubbing compound and waxing process. I Learned To Like It Just The Way It Is with the orange peel, plus if I get any nicks or damage I just need to pull out the roller and go over those arrears again.

FellowShip

_______________________________________________

My motto: Just for the Grins [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

Ken

I totally understand your comment about leaving it alone. Afterall I've lived with it for a year and other than the fact that the low areas hold dirt and stains, I wouldn't be thinking of making it better. I'm now thinking that if I do a lousy sanding job , I could always call Tom at Fabulon and pick up some more Signature finish. Rich

Re: Knocking Down Orange Peel
 

hi dink my sore numb fingers go out to i owen a small fiberglass shop on the cape and i do a lot arelgelcoating of boat the last was a 40 sailboat completly i suggest that you get a product call drycoat from 3m it a black powder that when put on the hull will show all the mistakes then wet sand till your fingers cant take it . then compound w/ ether aqua tech cut and buff or 3m super rubing compound / then a less agressive compound good luck and ? please call bill at offshore systems 1 508 759 1177