Here We Go Again
 

I've got the boat restore bug once again. Theres only one cure for that. So I picked up this 1969 20 sf a few weeks ago. This little boat will make a nice skiff for fishing the upper Sacramento/San Joaquin river during the fall/winter striper runs. I also intend to use it for some lake fishing that the 23 is too big for. As of right now my goal is to make it look like my 23's little brother. I really like the lines of the 20 sf but like others on this board I dont like the two piece construction so I will be making some modifications. Here are a few pictures of the condition it was in when I bought it.It sat half sunk at the local marina. The boat had water up to the bottom of the floor.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5091.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5094.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5095.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5096.JPG

I snapped some lines and got intimate with my saw saw.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5180.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5181.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5182.JPG

note the factory lifting eye for lifting the hull out of the mold

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5183.JPG

My original goal was to get the entire liner out in one piece but that was not happening so I decided to section it off into two pieces. we used a come along and one of the arch entry ways to my property to pull up on the floor and break it free from it's cabosil weld. Theres jared standing in boat. He's serving his seacraft apprentiship right now.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5184.JPG

It broke free without too much difficulty... I also know were theres some ocean front property for sale in Arizona.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5185.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5186.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5187.JPG

The stringers are hollow and they will get filled with foam. I will re-use the floor and top cap. To my suprise there was no water in the boat. And very little rot. Here she is gutted.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5188.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5189.JPG

More to follow

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Well I kind of figured you would not stay still for very long.

So let’s see, since you already showed us all up on how to re to a 23’ now your going to put all the 20’ owners in their place as well.
It’s a good thing you are all the way over on the left side of the U.S. If you were closed I think some of us guys might have to come over to your house and Graffiti some of your stuff.


FellowShip

_______________________________________________

My motto: Just for the Grins :D :D :D

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Chuck,

Nice work and great images. Arguably, a proper renovation should start with a full teardown like that. It eliminates the mystery. At least you didn't use a chain saw...

What is your plan for the fuel cell?

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Ha Strick

Are you going to raise the height of the stringers a couple of inches and then Re Use the inner after some customizing work??? That would be a new approach to the job.

FellowShip

_______________________________________________

My motto: Just for the Grins :D

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Great pictures.
Does anyone know what the hole on the right side of the forward bulkhead is for? I think I've seen it on pictures of other boats (not mine, a 1976 20SF).

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Deck plate access to the thu hull drain for the fish box on my 20.
Strick,
Very cool. I have the same setup as you, same rub rail even. I will follow with much intrest. great work!

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick - Those cuts are perfect for your design. How the heck do you make everything look so easy??

Re: Here We Go Again
 

He's used to surgically extricating moles from the asses of Chihuahuas - a 20-23 hull is no big deal...

Strick - looking forward to your work !

Re: Here We Go Again
 

The inside of the hull has been prepped for fiberglass work. It was roughed up with the grinder today by one of my Amigo buddies from Home depot. I've decided to give my lungs a break and let some young guy do the dirty work for me. It looks nice and clean. My camera battery is dead so no pic's today. Hopfully this weekend I will pick up the necessary fiberglass supplies and start some glass work by next week.

My plans are to raise the floor like everyone else here has done. I will re-use the original decks (front casting and main deck) and cut an access hatch in the floor for access to an under deck fuel tank. Right now I'm thinking of coring the the sides of the hull and laying a thin fiberglass skin over the core to finish it. That should help firm up the sides of the boat. The stringers will get holes drilled in the top's and foam filled then a layer of glass over the stringers. The gunnel cap will then go back on the boat with a thick coming pad. Hopfully this will allow enough toe space for a 3 piece feel. I will put some under gunnel supports maybe teak like those that are on the 23 hull. The consel will gat replaced... I'd like to find one like Trayders. Thats kinda the route I'm thinking. Any input is appreciated.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Here are a couple images of the hull after a good sanding to rough it up so the epoxy will stick better.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5190.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5191.JPG

I took a pry bar this evening after work and peeled off the inner skin of fiberglass so as to give access to the plywood that makes up the transom. Note the dark rotted areas near the bottom of the transom.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5192.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5194.JPG


Next thing on the list is to cut back the stringers and remove the old transom and install a new one. Remove all the hardware on the gunnel cap and check the coring on that.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

That’s the best looking 37 yr old transom I have ever seen. Mine looked like chocolate pudding when I did mine.

FellowShip

_______________________________________________

My motto: Just for the Grins :D

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick Marine Liquidators has the exact console Trayder has check there site

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick, would you be interested in selling me the console out of your 20. I am restoring a 20 also and I don't have a console. I would like to keep mine original. Give me a call 609 374 0466 thanks Don Miller.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Great idea w/ the come-along, Strick. You sparked some thought while I was debating how to remove my deck. I slid a 2-ton car jack under the floor, and a few pumps later in a couple spots, I managed to pop the entire deck from its bedding! and pretty cleanly too. Saves me alot of cutting and chiseling :D

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I thought about the floor jack also but was worried about punching a hole thru the bottom of the hull so I went with the come a long. Glad it worked for you.


Anyone who is in to SeaCrafts and hunting is a friend of mine. It's yours. Lets figure out a price and you can donate that money to the site. You pay the shipping. I'm thinking we may be able to strap it to a pallet without having to box it up.

Here are some pics from a recent backpacking trip into the back country of N. california. I've been hunting this area for over 20 years and with any luck I will be deer hunting here mid september. We had the entire basin to ourselves. It's 5 miles back to the lake and another 5 to were I hunt. Hundreds of hungery trout were jumping out of the water and catching flies in mid air. we had no problem catching dinner each night.


http://www.casdvm.com/photos/trinity/iceberg.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/trinity/lake.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/trinity/lake1.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/trinity/lisalake.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/trinity/trout.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/trinity/trout2.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/trinity/bear1.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/trinity/bear2.JPG

The bears out here are a wild as they get and they respect people. I got to within 30 yards of this fella before he winded me and high tailed it.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Awesome Strick - just mad eme remember a trip i did one year ago in Montana. We had this to ourselves as well. Thanks for the Good Friday morning start....

http://www.s4avant.com/coppermine/al...l_DSC01709.JPG
http://www.s4avant.com/coppermine/al...l_DSC01720.JPG
http://www.s4avant.com/coppermine/al...l_DSC01726.JPG
http://www.s4avant.com/coppermine/al...l_DSC01723.JPG

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Excellent pictures guys! Makes me jealous, wish S. Florida had at least some freaking hills besides the garbage dumps! :rolleyes:

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Im with you botpeje. there aren't very many hills up here in north florida either. would like to investigate a possible host program were members could trade trips in other areas of the country.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Called them yesterday and it's $595 plus about $300 to ship it to calif.... which will make it a $900 consel which is absurd to pay that much. Looks like I'm going to have to make my own.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

:D It will be just like you want it then.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

"Quiet please, class is in session" Strick-Thanks for taking the time to explain and document your process. Lifting the deck after screwing the 2X4's down looks ideal to keep from tearing it up.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I figured you would make your own anyway. Now you got the excuse you were looking fore. You can customize the old one and then use it for a mold. After all why through $$$ at something you can do your self and after woods be proud of.

FellowShip

_______________________________________________

My motto: Just for the Grins :D

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Some of you guys are funny. :cool:

Not much done this weekend, was teaching the kids how to ride a bike. They picked it up really quick.

I removed the all the hardware off the deck cap and deck. They did not make it easy to remove the bow rail because they glassed over the bolts.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5198.JPG


The cap cleaned up well. There is no coring except on the front part of it. I will core the rest of the gunnel cap all the way back.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5199.JPG
http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5200.JPG

In the above pic if you look real close you can see were they glassed in the wires for the bow light. Lord knows you cant have those wires flopping about. I cut back the stringers to allow room to remove the transom.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5203.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5204.JPG


I was able to save one of the 3/4 inch pieces of plywood that made up the transom. It came out intact. It was simpley nailed to the first piece that was glassed to the outer skin. I will use this piece for my template for the new transom. The skin was sanded so it's now ready for the new transom.

I moved over to the deck and started filleting it with the saw saw.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5205.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5212.JPG


I'm cutting off the back end of the deck were the scuppers are molded in. I'd like to reuse this piece and move it aft and allow another 8-10 inches of deck space. I'll fill in the floor were I took it out.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5210.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5211.JPG


so far my plan looks good on paper but I'll see how it goes when it's time to put it all back together. I did not get to pick up fiberglass supplies like I wanted to this past weekend So Hopfully I'll be doing that this Thursday and doing some more work on the boat this weekend.

Well it's getting late and I dont want to miss my opera singing lessons. Heres one last pic of the King getting on it.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/35...%2520elvis.jpg

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Still slow going. I took the old transom core and used it for a template to make the new transom.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5218.JPG

It will consist of 2-3/4 inch pieces or marine ply. I'm using vinyl ester on this project mostly because the price of epoxy has increased dramatically since doing my last project. I Put down a layer of 1708 on the inside of the cleaned out transom and let it get tacky. Next I moved over to the the new core and put a layer of 1708 on one of the two transom cores. I smeared a good ammount of vinylester mixed with milled glass fibers and cabosil over the surface and layed the other 3/4 inch core on top of the first.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5222.JPG

This should provide a good bond between the two. I put a some 1- 1/2 inch screws in the core to get it to suck together.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5224.JPG



I had to cut a bevel in the new core to get it to sit in as close to the edge of the corners of the transom as possible.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5220.JPG

Here it is ready to be installed.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5221.JPG

The 1708 that I layed on the inside skin of the transom was still tacky which is what I wanted so I then smeared a good amount of vinylester/cabosil/milled fibers paste over that
and I also made a bed of this paste around the sides and bottom of the transom for the new core to sit into.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5231.JPG

To get the new core to bind tightly with the outer skin I used 2x4's and long carriage bolts to suck it all together. The plastic sandwich wrap will prevent the 2x4 from sticking
to the sealed core.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5230.JPG
http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5227.JPG

Here is my sandwich job. It's nice and straight. I'll let it set up and cure before I finish the inside of the transom.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5229.JPG

Next I cut some foam to extend the stringers back

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5232.JPG

It was kind of a pain getting them to fit right . I had to do a lot of cutting and rasping. But they fit OK. Nothing fancy here. They will get cabosiled in place and glassed over.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5234.JPG

Thats it for now.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

pretty work,your pictures and explanation are very good.How do you no what weight cloth (1708)to use for the different parts of construction?transome,deck,etc.What is cabosil?
Looking forward to seeing your progress. Thanks Keith

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Keith - 1708 is 17oz a biaxial cloth with an 3/4oz mat behind it. Their is 2408, 1808, 1208 etc. If I remember correctly 1708 usually is glued together 1808 is usually stitched together (w/o glue).

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick, You are doing a fantastic job. I'm sure that this project will turn our great. I wish I lived on the left coast so I could get a birds eye view. Do all the 69's drain the deck as yours does? I didn't know they used that configuration on the floor drains. All the ones that I have seen go through the deck not into the aft seats.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

My 69' Seafari had the same drain config.
Strick, I was wondering what you used to seperate the top cap from the hull sides? I beleive you mentioned it was glassed to the hull, like mine is? I thought just running a cut-off wheel shallow along the inside corner might do it.
Also, I noticed you've left the boat on the trailer. Ive read several times that the hull might go floppy, or may not be square on the trailer after removing the cap, and its given me pause before I take that step. Any issues in that regard?

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Leverette- Fiberglass work can be a complicated or as simple as you want to make it. I like to keep it simple so I use three kinds of fiberglass material.

1. 1808 gets used with epoxy because it is stitched together instead of glued together so the thick epoxy penetrates the material better. You can still use 1708 with epoxy it just wont wet as easier.

2. 1708. I'm using all 1708 on this project because I'm using vinyl ester and it wets the 1708 easily.

3.3/4 ounce mat for finish work or as a first layer over a mold.
The 1708 or 1808 is used for structural work to give strength.

cabosil is some very nasty lightweight airborn material made out of silica. It is mixed with your resin to make a paste for adhearing two parts together. You must use a mask when mixing it.

71kidcasper- I think only the mosley boats had that drain configuration.

NoDoze- There were two places on my boat were the top cap/liner insert was glassed to the hull. Under the anchor locker in the bow and at the transom. I used a combination of the saw saw and the die grinder to get thru it. The hull should maintain it's shape as long as the stringers are intact. Trailer or not.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick, I have always been told you need to use epoxy when bonding to existing fiberglass structures, like bonding your new transom to the existing transom skin. Since this is all I have ever known I have never tried using vinylester for repir jobs, only for new parts. What do you know about this? Have you used vinylester for repairs before?

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I used to think the same way but apparently we were wrong. It's true that the epoxy gives a stronger bond but the vinylester is pleanty strong. The problem comes in when you try to use epoxy on part of the project and then vinylester on another...you have to be careful not to vinylester over an area that you already epoxied...I did not want to have to worry about that. I think it's best to stay with one type of resin on a project. This is my first time using vinylester. I've always used epoxy. Other then the fumes I like working with it as it wet's out the material well. Theres also the cost of the two... my supplier wants $450 for a 7 gallon kit of epoxy versus $160 for a 5 gallon kit of vinylester. Thats $64/gallon of epoxy versus $32/gallon for vinylester. Thats probably the reason as to why you see all the Pro repair shops using vinylester. So I guess well see how the vinlyester works on this project. Your boat came out cherry BTW nice job :)

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

I realize that you are already well into your project, but you can get a 6.6 gallon kit of epoxy from US Composites for $209.00 plus shipping. I just recieved that exact kit on thursday shipping weight was 66 pounds.

Your project is turning out great. I need to figure out how to post pictures so I can show mine as well.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Thanks I'll look into it. I usually am too disorganized to order on line. I had a feeling that someone was going to reply with something like that :D I wonder what their vinylester runs? I may order some epoxy for the bracket. Kidcasper- start a thread on your project and e-mail me the pics and I will post them on your thread if you like.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

http://www.uscomposites.com/polyesters.html
http://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html

$141 + 20 + $50 shipping

Uscomposites charges a $20 hazmat fee when shipping 5 gallon pails of vinylester or polyester.

I like their thin epoxy.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

OK I'm back in the saddle again. I've been busy at work and I took 5 days off to go deer hunting. If you are a deer hunter then click here to see Bambi's dad: http://www.casdvm.com/photos/Trinity%202006/ If you have hunted blacktail deer before you will appreciate this buck.

The transom is finished on the inside. There is a layer of 1708 and a layer of woven roving. I meant to put 2 layers of 1708 but I ran out of material and Bigshrimpin was kind enough to let me have a little of his woven roving to finish the transom. Next I glassed over the foam stringer extensions with 2 layers of 1708. Here is a shot of the transom and the stringer extensions:

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5250.JPG

I drilled a few holes in the existing fiberglass stringers and filled them with foam making a good mess in the process.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5276.JPG
http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5275.JPG

After cleaning up the excess foam I ripped some strips of 3/4 marine plywood the width of the stringers. I'm going to use these to raise the highth of the stringers. These pieces were then cut to length of each the stringers. I used screws and 5 minute epoxy to glue two pieces of the 3/4" strips on top of each other. The tops and sides were routed leaving a smooth bevel so the fiberglass would comform to the contour leaving no air pockets. I mixed some cabosil and glued the plywood strips to the top's of the stringers.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5320.JPG
http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5319.JPG


Having completed that I then cut some 1708 to cover the tops of the stringers thus encapsulating the new plywood strips.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5322.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5324.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/20sf/DSCN5332.JPG

This week I hope to get a little more done. I have to tab the stringers to the transom and start working on the floor. It's going a little slower then I had planned.

strick

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Strick, That's a great looking blacktail. I'm not use to seeing anything other than whitetails, and I do mean deer. Is that possibly a cross between a mulie and a blacktail? Boat looks great also. Keep the pix coming you give me new ideas all the time.

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Man - this is a study in beautiful workmanship - Nice !!

Congrats on the deer - beautiful country - looked like a good place for my .257 Roberts - it's kinda lost out here in the New England woods.

Interesting bit on the vinylester vs epoxy resins - I knew that epoxy runs about 30%, or better, stronger than polyester, in glassing to existing fully cured glass, where all you're getting is the secondary bond - any idea where vinylester runs in that comparison ? I've never worked with vinylester before - how do you rate it for ease of mixing / working pot life / wettability / temperature sensitivity / etc- the usual resin characterisitics ???

thanks

Bill

Re: Here We Go Again
 

INCREDIBLE DEER we whitetail hunt in the al blackbelt. The boat is coming along great also. congrats !!!!!

Re: Here We Go Again
 

dats a big'un mr strick. shoot i stufed up in ole buck lest year nex 2 meemas poorch door. jed pissed cause he wants to eat it.sezz the dat tail be finger lickin good

http://momentoffame.com/photopost/up...s_doorbell.jpg

Re: Here We Go Again
 

Thanks fellas for the comments about the deer.. including yours spider crab. It's an honor to have you reply to one of my posts. We busted our butts up there. Backpacked about 8 miles into the Trinity alps wilderness. We had to pack water 2 miles to our campsite which was situtated 5 minutes from the two canyons we hunt. That enabled us to get to our hunting area well before daylight. Only other people we saw were on horse back. Got snowed on which was a suprise but made hunting conditions easier. The buck was killed well within the boundries for pure blacktail deer. The Alps are known for their pure high quality black tail gene pool. He scores 129 6/8 points which is 6 2/8 points away from making the all time B&C Records of North American Big Game...which is why one may be inclined to mistake him for a muley hybred.

Old Blue- I dont really know much about all this technical stuff bond strength difference's etc...Like I said in an earlier post I'm used to using epoxy for the most part. I've been making sure that the area that I'm laminating to has been rough sanded so the stuff stick's when I put it down. So far no problems. The vinylester is very easy to work with. Easier then epoxy. It wets well and the pot life is long enough for getting the job done. I've been mixing 1-2 quarts at a time. Everything seems to be holding together so far. No progress tonight.... drank two beers and just stared at it for a while trying to get ideas.

strick