Hook in the Hull ??
 

Have a 1984 Sceptre and am trying to fix some handling / performance problems. Recently repowered with 4 stroke Suzuki. As I was dialing in the correct prop, noticed the need for more bow rise, even with the heavier motor. After looking at all possibilities, mechanic suggested I might have a "hook" in the hull in which a sagging transom acts like a permanent trim tab. Thought this would be evident in broken stringers, etc but no sign of that. Anyone heard of this in SeaCrafts?

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

Yes, I was talking with Mr P a few years back and he told me something about this so called "Hook" in some early 80's model Sceptres. I don't recall the exact years but it had something to do with using a "retired" mold from another model. He showed me how to look for it by placing a straight edge down the inside chine from the transom towards the bow. If I remember correctly,it was on the Port side.
I think ScottM was with me the day this was discussed. Maybe he can recall as his Dad has an early model Sceptre ????

I guess with some grinding, glass and faring this hook can be fixed. :(

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

another cause of a hooked hull is using a trailer or lift where the bunks don't extend all the way to the transom. I know a shop in Florida that has fixed a lot of hooked hulls that became that way due to bunks that were too short :D

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

Most all boats manufactured have hooks at the stearn.
This is intentionally done to keep the boats from having
excessive bow lift. Some times when the boat was removed from the mold "Hot" the hook becomes more pronounced and
irregular. Capt Chuck hit the nail on the head. Put a good
straight edge on it. It can be glassed-out.
See ya, Ken

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

Yup, I was there. I remember the topic of discussion but not the entire conversation. Not sure if it's coincidental or not due to prop spin, but my dad's '82 lists to port while underway if you don't drop that tab. Would a clockwise motor cause a port list?

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

yes, it definitely can. mine was pretty extreme when I got it but I played around with adjusting the angle on that little fin behind the prop and it helped a lot - not perfect but a big improvement.

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

My 80 septer with 250 suk tracs good with skeg haif way over but needs some trim still bow hesvy i weigh 250 which doesnt help

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

My 23 listed to starboard when I had a left hand prop, when I changed engines and went to a right hand prop the list changed to port. this is very common in single engine boats.
Robb

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

Thanks for the responses.

Think I found the issue. The trim tabs were mounted incorrectly and not able to get full negative trim. This leaves about a half inch of plane deflected which will have a small bow-down effect. This is part of the problem, but not the main issue.

The helm and passenger positions are further forward than in a center console combined with the normal heavier weight of the Sceptre's nose makes a bow-down bias will cause relatively more bow steer and greater torque lean.

The biggest contributor to the problem is my selection of a left hand turning motor during my repower. The counter-rotating motor leans the boat to starboard and the lean is accentuated by the weight of the driver at the starboard helm. Instead of the driver weight at the starboard countering the lean of a standard motor, it places both the driver weight and the lean to starboard in a counter-rotating requiring full port-bow-down tab increasing even further the previously mentioned bow-down bias. Moral of the story: A counter rotating motor is nor the way to go in a single engine Sceptre application. This is an expensive lesson.

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

schooner,

just for curiousity, how does you boat sit on the water. if you stand by the deck drain with a full tank of gas, would water come in the deck drain?

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

" back in the day ", early outboard powered boats were designed so that the "driver" had his weight to stbd to counteract the torque of a standard-rotation engine. Thats why all the old starcrafts, woodsons, North Americans, glasspars, etc. were set up like a British car instead of what the "Americans" were used to...remember cables and pulleys and "take-up" springs?

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

My brother has a Center Console with a large single counter rotating motor and the boat has no issues with torque steering. He doesn't even have trim tabs. It's hard to see how a boat as large as a 23 seacraft with trim tabs has this problem. When you stand in the middle of the boat or put two people on the opposite side does the problem go away???

I can understand the torque issue with little starcraft or MFG with all the weight forward . . . I still think there is something else going on here . . . other than the counter rotating engine torque.

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

schooner my 250 suk is a counter is no worse than old moter cheak the tab good luck

Re: Hook in the Hull ??
 

Thanks everybody, for the replies and suggestions.

edloh: The boat actually sits better in the water now with the heavier four stroke. The prior 200 2stroke let the water run forward away from the scuppers when washing down. Now the water runs aft slowly. If I stand in the back, then the water runs aft like I think it should. Scuppers are about 1 inch above the water with no one on board. I have the deck mold with channels P&S that drain toward the scuppers rather than the thru-deck scuppers I had on my 20.

Bigshrimpin: I am hoping nothing else is going on. There is not any way that I can determine for any "hidden" weight to be in the bow. I used to run a 32 Blackfin with Cats that would tip to the side you set your beer when running up on the vee. A DV boat will lean into the wind,etc so My guess is the effect is because of the hull shape more than the size. My guess is that the forward helm location on a Sceptre is closer to the forefoot where the vee is steeper and the waterplane narrower than the helm location on the 23CC and that the effect of weight on trim is greater...both front to back and side to side. Plus, since I need to tab the port bow down so much to get the boat level, that pushes the bow even further down and increases the torque lean even more. You can feel this in your steering and trim if you overtrim bow down.

If I have one additional passenger to port, the lean is reduced but not eliminated. If I am alone and turn loose of the wheel and stand to port, the boat trims perfectly P&S and I don't need tabs at all.

Anyhow...indications are that a counter rotating motor in a Sceptre has a different impact than in a CC because of the weight of the deck and passengers forward rather than aft, the starboard-forward location of the helm, and the lack of console weight center-aft. I was happy that there is no "hook" or deformation in the hull and indications are that I don't have a structural issue exacerbating the problem.

Thanks again, I appreciate all the suggestions.

Jack