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65Bowrider 03-21-2007 08:33 AM

Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
I am painting a bowrider and having some difficulties getting a nice finish and would like some help.

Located in So. Florida, boat is inside a hanger, using Interlux paint, rolling & tipping, using a foam roller & foam brush. The topsides & bottom turned out great, using some of the recommended 333 brushing fluid to thin the paint (2 oz). Instructions say 3oz / qt is max.

Now painting the sides of the outside hull (a vertical surface). And now I'm having problems.

With two oz of 333 thinner, it appeared as though the paint was trying to run...with horizontal waves running the length of the boat. Last coat backed down to only 1 oz thinner, and now it shows the brush strokes! So, is the paint drying too fast? or too slow??

The boat has 4 coats of red & still needs more coats for good coverage, so we're putting the paint on thin.... maybe too thin?

Also, when you tip, how much pressure do you put on the foam brush? Do you just barely touch to smooth out the bubbles from the roller ? or do you put enough pressure to glide thru the layer of fresh paint? Should you 'brush' more than once on an area? Rolling vertical, brushing horizontal from dry area to freshly painted area.

Any helpful hints will be tremendously appreciated.

doug7488 03-21-2007 09:39 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Hi, Carla -
Red is a tough color to cover with. It sounds like the paint may also be to thin.
Did you prime the boat before painting?
I use a good quality badger hair brush to "tip" the paint - just drag it lightly over the rolled on paint - not to much pressure, just enough to break the surface. Also, make sure the brush is wet, not dry. Don't "work" the paint, just pull the brush though it once.
If I remember right - 216 thinner? - is another one to use.
I forget which is which, one is for hot, the other for colder temps.
Usually working from the dryer (first applied) to the wetter (newly applied) leaves a better appearance.
Thats my experience - hope it helps.
-Doug

Capt Chuck 03-21-2007 10:11 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Carla
I have not used Interlux paint. This following method is what I used using Signature paint (similar I suppose):

Tack Rag the surface first. On a verticle surface I used a foam roller rolling from the bottom up (chine to rub rail) each stroke. Never stroke horizonal or from the top down (this causes sagging or runs). A foam brush pulled along the edges and tight corners first. After approx 2' of coverage I rolled back over with a "Dry Foam Roller" this smoothes out the roller lines. Don't go more than 2' as to prevent setup of the paint.

continue ----> drag brush edges---> roll wet paint bottom to top----> smooth out with dry roller............. a couple of days after the final coat, I sanded with 1500 grit wet/dry and buffed with 3M Perfect-It. This rid any undesired runs, bug doo-doo, heavy strokes or orange peel.

Now "Fellowship" has experience with Sterling brush & Tip. He can give some pointers also I'm sure ;)
Good Luck

joey 03-21-2007 10:31 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
I have just used the Interlux Toplac for the first time(I am really a huge AwlGrip fan)and rolled and tipped it.I found that by far the badger hair brush is the way to go,as mentioned earlier tip it by one stroke with a slightly wet brush.I found that the Toplac alows the slight brush marks to level out while drying.I used Interlux's primer and several coats of thinned topcoat.Also if use a disposable razor and shave down the tip of your brush to make a nice crisp edge,it will do an even nicer job.

Fishjack 03-21-2007 01:56 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Capt Chuck gives good advise -

I also used the (1) wet and (1) dry foam roller method. This worked better for me than "tipping" with a brush.

BUT I was using the Sig. Finish paint - it goes on REALLY thin. 9oz of paint/coat to cover the sides of the boat (if I remember correctly).

FELLOW-SHIP 03-21-2007 04:42 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
I used a different paint but everywhere I read that said use a very good quality brush either the badger hair on china something brush.

FellowShip

_______________________________________________

My motto: Just for the Grins :D

65Bowrider 03-21-2007 06:53 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Everyone makes it seem so simple to get it perfect!
Reading the first two responses before heading out to the boat, this is what we tried....only on the transom.

BTW, the boat has been primed, sanded, primed, sanded...etc.

I rolled a little thicker coat of paint for only about 1' at a time(taking it smaller), rolling from bottom to top, then re-rolled with a dry roller, also from bottom to top. There were too many bubbles still left, so then I tipped with a VERY light touch. 1/2 hour later, NO BRUSH STROKES...that's good. But it did have an orange peel appearance. Hopefully overnight it will level out.

I have a china bristle brush (recommended too), maybe I'll go back to trying that again...with a very light touch.

With the 2nd dry roll, did you get bubbles? Did you squeegie the roller between paper inbetween sections to help keep it 'dry'?

Like I said, you make it all seem so easy....
I'm determined to win this battle of getting a good "smooth" coat!

65Bowrider 03-21-2007 07:29 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Just wanted to include a picture of the topside...
used the process of 2oz thinner, foam roller & tipped with foam brush. I was pleased with the way it came out.

Red must be a different creature....I'll keep practicing on the transom, using your suggestions...
Thank you.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...aintred004.jpg

Bryan A. 03-21-2007 08:00 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
WOW!!!! That is roll and tip?
Looks good. :cool:

Capt Chuck 03-21-2007 08:00 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Looks Terrific to me :eek:

Quote:

But it did have an orange peel appearance

The thicker the paint the more orange peel you will get. Your better to go according to manf mixture. I don't know about the paint your using so I can not comment.

Quote:

With the 2nd dry roll, did you get bubbles? Did you squeegie the roller between paper inbetween sections to help keep it 'dry'


I use the "Shur-Line" 3" Trim & Touch-up roller (that's right 3") to put the wet paint on. I get 'em at Home Depot. Make sure you wipe and roll the cloth roller first with duct tape to remove all dust and fuzz. It just takes a little more time vs using a 6" or 9". I dry off with the 4" Shur-Line Foam Roller. I keep extra rollers all set and clean in case you drop one. I use 2 or 3 per side to keep them from absorbing too much paint.

"Bubbles" Maybe your rolling too fast? Maybe the tip method with the shaved bristles like Joey mentioned is your best bet? Some of the cheap foam brushes will break down in the urethane thinners. The ones I use have "JEN MFG" on the wood handle. Get 'em at Ace Hardware. They hold up a little longer. Can several coats of your paint be applied in a single day? If so, then by all means go thinner and then apply a second thin coat after dry/tack up. Also FYI, being painted indoors slows the drying time. Air movement over the paint removes the fumes and quickens the tack up. I know Mike at Wildfire paints inside and uses big fans when he sprays PPG Concept paint. I just hate to steer you wrong Carla as I can only comment based on my experience with the Signature paint application.

I'm positive after your all done and made and corrected your mistakes, you'll be a pro !!

65Bowrider 03-21-2007 08:59 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
"I'm positive after your all done and made and corrected your mistakes, you'll be a pro !! "

Thanks Chuck, but I want to be a 'pro' BEFORE I get to the last coat! Hmm orange peel means I'd better go back to thinning 2oz per quart, which is what I did on the topside.
I'm using 4" foam rollers, will stick with that. Maybe slow down on rolling per your suggestion for bubbles. Also maybe need to experiment more with the 'tipping'.... foam brush (also used on topside) and try the China bristle we have.

If all that doesn't work, maybe stand on my head & paint upsidedown!

Bryan A...thanks for the compliment. The topside was so much easier than the outside of the hull! Same paint, but different colors.

Fishjack 03-22-2007 12:51 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Pro? From the looks of that pic your close to being there!

Red (and any other dark color) I believe shows more imperfections. Granted no "roll and tip" will every be as perfect as a pro spray job but I still have people look closely at my boat and cannot believe it was "rolled on"...

Keep up the good work..

Blue197320 03-22-2007 08:33 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
65Bowrider,
i am trying to roll and tip my my console but its not working very well for me. i am using the same paint and thinner that u are using. i roll it on with a mohair roller and went over it with a china bristle brush but had bad brush marks. i went and bought foam brushes to try. do you apply the paint thick initially then tip?

65Bowrider 03-22-2007 10:29 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Blue,
I've mixed 2 oz of 333 in the paint. On the topside, I rolled with 4" sponge roller, EVERY direction getting a good even coat, doing only about 2 sq ft at a time. Then went over it with the sponge brush with decent pressure...not too lightly ... and not digging thru the paint. Tipped only in one direction, one time.
But that was on the topside, which is mostly a horizontal surface. Did the bottom this way too and had pretty good results. I liked the foam brush better than the china bristle.

Now I'm doing the sides of the boat(hull). It's a vertical surface, and that's where the finish is not smoothing out as much. Your console is a lot of vertical surface too.

I've gotten a lot of good tips on this thread and trying them out. WHEN I succeed (and I will!), I'll post.

I'm taking the day off from painting to attend the Palm Beach Boat Show. So Friday I'll see the results from yesterday's attempt.

Good Luck & let me know if you figure it out using Interlux.

65Bowrider 03-22-2007 10:51 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Blue,
Regarding how much paint to roll on... enough to give it a solid coating only, not more... remember on the deck, I rolled over 3-4 times in ALL directions to get the solid coverage. HOWEVER, note what Capt.Chuck recommends, only rolling in ONE direction...bottom to top. Hope this helps!

Blue197320 03-22-2007 06:32 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
65,
thanks for the tip. so the verticle surfaces are giving the problem... luckily for me the console is out of the boat so i can try to lay it on its side and let gravity do the work?
also is there any particular brand of foam roller that u prefer ?

65Bowrider 03-23-2007 08:20 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Blue, whenever you can let gravity do the work for you, it's easiest. Rollers are 4", white, from Home Depot. They have the sponge brushes also. Like Chuck said, wipe with tack cloth before painting to remove all dust particles, also at Home Depot.

I learned at the boat show, talking to Interlux people, the red & yellow are the hardest to paint with. The chemicals have been changed and emolulents (something like that) has been removed due to EPA restrictions. On vertical surfaces, recommended tipping 'down' or 'up'. I'll be trying that today...and will let you know how it works.

Blue197320 03-23-2007 07:21 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
i went to home depot and got the capt chuck 3" roller and the foam brushes that 65 reccomennded. i am practicing this technique on the primer.(interlux pre-kote thinned wiht 333)
i roll it on, let it sit for a minute or two then go over it with the 2" foam brush. i still see brush marks! maybe the primer is not the same as the actual paint or its too thick? please help im gettin kinda few up with this.

willydewitt2 03-25-2007 09:42 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
I work on a 175' Feadship, I use topcoat brushes and foam rollers made by a company called 'Corona'. I prefer 3" foam rollers and 3" brushes for rolling and tipping. They work the best on varnish as well. I always tip out vertically just light enoguh to elimanate the bubbles. If you tip horizontally, you have greater risk of sagging. More thin coats are always a safer bet to avoid brush marks.

Red is a tough color that requires more coats.
Good Luck

Blue197320 03-26-2007 01:17 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
im going to give it one more try and if that does not work out im going to have my console sprayed. :(

65Bowrider 04-02-2007 03:30 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Update: We have put enough coats on for good coverage(7), but I didn't make "Pro". Last coat definitely was the best, using Chucks wet roll & dry roll method.
Unfortunately, there's a slight orange peel, but can only see with lights & closeup.
So, can I just perfect it with the 1500 sandpaper & 3m Perfect-It? Does the 1500 leave any scratches?
Also, what KIND of 3m Perfect-It? I googled and found several, compound, swirl remover & polish. West Marine had Super Compound...if I use that, do I need to sand?
And then just follow instructions or any special tips?
If I goof this up, then I'm facing another complete sanding and painting... :(
Any detailed hints will be TREMENDOUSLY appreciated!

Capt Chuck 04-02-2007 04:26 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Carla

I use the "Perfect-It 3000 Extra Cut Compound. Black container with blue stripe on side. # 6060
It will remove scratches 1200 grit or finer in Hard paints.(I actually have used 800 with a DA then 1500 then buff)
I would try an area back on the transom without sanding first. If you feel there is still too much orange peel then use the wet dry 1500-2000 grit. Remember when that boat is in the water you won't see that orange peel so bad as looking down the sides or directly into it. I have not used your Imron and again I don't want to steer you wrong and I be the cause of you repainting :( I think there are many fine experienced painters on this forum that can help you. I hope they give ya some pointers.

BTW:I have seen orange peel in many gelcotes on boats out of the factory ;)

Blue197320 04-02-2007 05:14 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
65
I am glad that it worked out for you. i tried the foam brush and was still not happy.. so i went to spray route instead. i need to wetsand and add a few more coats but will have to wait until later this week as i became sick after going to the flea market. again i am glad it worked out for you.

65Bowrider 04-03-2007 09:13 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Blue...you took the easy way out! I'm still working at it.

Chuck...did you have to come back with anything after the Perfect-It 3000 extra cut or did that bring the finish to a high gloss?
I appreciate all your help on this.

Blue197320 04-03-2007 05:34 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
65
i couldnt pass up the opportunity. some one is letting me use a good gun and drier for the air so i figured why not? and ive got the console its own "spray tent" so no leaves and stuff get on it..

Capt Chuck 04-03-2007 07:27 PM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Quote:

Chuck...did you have to come back with anything after the Perfect-It 3000 extra cut or did that bring the finish to a high gloss?


No, thats it. Buffed to the high gloss. ;)

65Bowrider 04-04-2007 08:36 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Thanks Chuck! Headed out to the boat today with the 3M 3000 Extra Cut... I appreciate your guidance on this.

Blue... post a picture when you're done! Sounds like you have a great set up...& it'll be beautiful!

apneadreams 12-29-2009 10:56 AM

Re: Need 'Roll & Tip' tips
 
Try a search on youtube....Interlux has a bunch of how to instructional vids for painting boats, also I think jamestown distributors has a bunch of how to's for all boat refrabrications / restoration (on youtube)....GOOD informative Vids. :D


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