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Tsunami/bracket power options
Still looking at the options for powering my '74 Tsunami....
I'm planning to build a bracket with minimum setback for the engine choice. It'll be twins and this is the list so far. Weight is from the manu websites. Prices approx from Ed's just for comparison. I'm not sure what the difference is between the Yam HPDI and the VMAX HPDI. Merc Optimax 135, 150, 175HP same block and weight weight 431lbs $7500, $10000, $11000 Smartcraft available on all Zuke 4S 140HP weight 415lbs $8000 Evinrude ETEC 115, 150HP weight 375lbs $8000, $11000 Yamaha 150HP HPDI weight 450lbs VMAX 150HP HPDI weight 450lbs $10000 Yamaha 4S 115HP weight 390lbs 150HP weight 450lbs An offshore trip here in Charleston is about 60 miles one way plus trolling all day. So I'll get the largest fuel tank I can reasonably fit. I plan to remove the in-deck storage/fishbox and also move the tank back a little. I really liked Strick's tank with the rigging channel down the side. I'd like to be able to get to 140-150gals of fuel. I'm going to put a hardtop on it and that will add more weight to the front....but I'll keep it as light as possible. Moving the tank back should offset that, along with mounting the engines farther back. I'm a little worried about the floor height....but I don't plan to raise it at this point since it's solid all around. On the Merc's, they all use the same blocks and have about the same weight. I think I'll be fine with any of them with a flotation bracket. Very powerful engines for their rating from what I read. My question now is what's reasonable performance WRT to fuel burn and weight. Would twin 115s be a total dog...?? The twin 135 Optimaxs are probaly closer to 150HP from what I read....but if I'm going to have the weight why not get the higher rated and go with 150s. I really like the Smartcraft technology, I have it on an I/O on another boat. Everything I hear about the zukes is good....price is about the same as the Merc 135s. Not sure about computerized guages for the zuke. I think 115 in a 4S would be too little power but it is 120lbs less weight. The HPDI 150HP are more weight than the Merc's, but the engines have a good rep. The ETECs are the lightest, but most expensive. I'm not sure about the rated HP versus performance on them and whether twin 115s would be enough ponies in the ETEC. And like the mercs, if the weight is the same why not go bigger... except for the $6000. Again not sure about their guage/computer technology. At this point my two choices are the zuke 140s or the merc 150HP or 135 optis. But I'd really like to hear about anyones experiences, performance, etc. If the performance of the 135s is actually pretty close to the 150s....may as well save the $5000....... |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
BRP is sandbagging on the ETEC HP ratings! The 150 (which weighs 427 lbs dry)is really ~165 and the 225 is really a 240! (This is from the HP/Torque curves in BRP brochures) NMMA requires the advertised HP to be within +-10% of measured, so I'd guess the 115 is closer to a 125.
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
I must have been looking at the 115 ETEC for the weight...thanks. I'm leaning to the Optimax....
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
The June 2006 issue of Powerboat Reports had a 150 hp shootout on identical 20'boats, ETEC & Optimax vs Suzy, Honda & Yamaha. I put all the results in a spreadsheet that I can send you if you'll send me your e-mail address.
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
Given the distance you have to travel to fish, it sounds like your looking at twins. I know 2 guys that have switched from transom mounted single 250's to twins on a bracket that have said if they had it to do over again, they would of gone with a single 275/300, for fuel burn, balance, maintenace, and cost. One went with etecs, the other with suzukis. Make sure you have alot of floatation on the bracket, especially for following seas. If you lose one motor, with much weight in the boat, I doubt you will get it on plane with a single 150 engine. IMHO, the 23' do better with a large singe engine, but if you need the security of twins, with a BIG floatation bracket, you will probably be happy. Most of the etecs I have heard of either crap out in the first 50 hours, or run forever, with no problems. Price wise, it is hard to beat the suzukis, and the optimax's are pretty strong too.
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
Thanks JohnB......I just like the safety of twins. I currently have a 24 I/O WAC that I added a kicker bracket to....just so I can aim for home even if only at 6 knots.
Twin 150's would be good power I think, especially in the Opti. I'm building the bracket ala Strick and Big, so I'm going with a wide tub that roughly follows the contour of the hull about 3-4 inches up at the keel panels, less at the mid panel. I haven't calculated the flotation yet, but it should be at least 2-300 lbs, and with the extra width it'll add up fast as the stern sits deeper. |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
I am not a marine engineer, but I would think 400 pounds would be the min. for floatation. These boats have a funny way of squating down in following seas. I think I remember seeing some specs on the Hermco twin brack that it had 400 pounds of floatation on the twin bracket.
Almost all the engines your looking at are south of 400 pounds, 2 will be over 800 pounds. Personally, other than the gas consumption, I like the merc 250 efi, weighing in at 472 pounds. About 50 pounds more than most of the 150s. I put a post up on trying to find the "optimal" bracket height for the armstrong I am putting on. There seems to be a lot of discussion, but not much real world experience. |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
I've looked at the Hermco bracket.....Mine should have a little more flotation because I'll angle it down at the
point between the inner and middle bottom panels. I think when I calc the flotation it'll be okay. A pair of old 150 evinrudes came off it....they were probably 300lbs each. With a bracket 28 inches long and 52 inches wide, once it's dep enough to have that size rectangle submerged, you displace 52lbs of water for every inch it sinks. |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
The unknown is, how much will it sink down. :rolleyes:
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
With my twin 250's at about 460 a piece my sceptre does
well even in a following sea.the advantage to the bigger horses is the bottom end power when you need to trim that bow in and come home when it gets rough.the height of the motors is trial and error i put my 250s where my 200s were and they are a little to low but i have enough ajustment travel to corect the height. |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
My Sceptre-to-Savage project is up at G-Crafts with Bobby now. I was thinking about a stainless marine bracket with twin 115 4 stroke Yamahas. Top end in the high 30's will be fine with me. Yamaha's web site shows performance data on a 23'6' Sailfish with twin 115's. the "sweatspot" is 4000 rpms, 26 mph, 9.5 gpm and 2.85 mpg. Whats wrong with that??
Took my other 23 Sceptre to the Georgetown Hole last Friday. burned 110 gal with the old 225 Suzuki 2 stroke. Total trip distance on the gps was 156 s-miles (including trolling). 5 nice dolphin and wahoo (first trip in the boat) This discussion has me thinking about twin 150's but just how many days do you meed to go 40 mph offshore?? Phil |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
I would go with the 150's. There is almost no weight difference 402 vs 466 pounds. The issue isn't so much of speed, but of how hard you work the motors. The 150's would probably last longer, and may get better gas milage at the same speed over water as the 115's. Once any of these motors hit 4000 rpm, they start sucking gas, fast.
I know someone that put twin 115's suzukis on a 23 sceptre, and regreted not going with the 140's. I am still having problems with the thought of putting over 900 pounds of engine on the back of these 23's. The boats were designed/balanced for 350-450 on the back. Maybe the brackets make it work, but from a balance perspective, I would like to ride/drive one. |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
John-
I agree on balance with twins. It is over the intended weight. Fellowship has good points on that topic. That is my only hang-up with my 890lb twin 225 set-up. |
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Hey JohnB, I'm 90% sure that's my old Sceptre in your post.
If it is, how's it doing?? I sold my 32 and am looking into another Sceptre. The 32 was fun, but I still like the 23 better. |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
Don't worry so much about the weight aft. Don't forget the 23' CC and Sceptre was available new with twin I/O Mercruiser 165 sterndrives, with a combined weight of approx 1200 lbs, and the 23' SeaVette was offered with twin I/O Mercruiser 5.7L V8 260 hp, with a combined weight of 1600 lbs.
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
What about a Single Diesel or (bracket with a single 250 Suzuki and a yamaha T series kicker) . . . bayracer will sell them for $13K.
It's a LOT less expensive to maintain one motor . . . if you use the kicker for trolling then you don't put the hours on your big motor, you save lots of fuel, and you have redundancy :). |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
Thanks Fr Frank..... I have seen those around on the net....but I didn't know the weight specs. I didn't think there'd be a difference in the inner liner/floor either, but wasn't 100% sure. I'm moving along....progress is pretty slow due to work..... :( But I'm feeling better about the bracket/engine plan.... :D
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
Bigshrimpin,
I remember you busting my chops over buying from Bayracer a couple of years ago...now you are stumping for them! JW |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
I think BigShrimpin is right. A single driving outboard with a good sized kicker will do the job. AND cost a whole lot less up front and down the road.
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
My 23 sceptre went 119 nautical miles( nearly 2mpg) on 65 gallons of fuel with a single carbed 225 johnson Runner back when I owned it in 3 to 5's most of the way. I had a 100 gallon tank. I have twin 150 Fichts on my 25 now and I get 1.7KMGP with those dinosuars. I compeletley understand the desire for twins and would seriusly look at 150 ETEC's if I were looking again. The local Coast Guard and Marine patrol here are uing them and I've heard very good things about them. They have great warranty's too. I like the low end torque they have over most 4 strokes. I ran a 23 with 140 Zukes in Nicaragua and it ran well but was much louder than I expected at cruising RPMS ( 5000 rpms). It could have been underpropped though. I run my 150's at 3500 getting 26kts and they are hardly working and burn nearly no oil at all even though they are 9 yr old motors.
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
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As for the twin motor, I haven't heard of anyone going from an efi, dfi, or 4 stroke single 225+, to twins, that has gotten better fuel milage. IMHO, single biggun with seatow and a satilite phone is the way to go. |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
Bayou,
I have a 72 Tsunami with twin yamaha 150's (that easily push my boat on one motor 20kts), a full hardtop and a 150 gallon fuel tank. Sounds alot like what you are trying to do. I acually have mine transom mounted with no extra floatation. No issues in following or head seas. I did however raise the transom. I dive and fish 100 miles off shore in it and run it in spearfishing tournaments loaded to the hilt and have no trouble with weight. I too am looking for newer power and have looked real hard at the DF140's. I just don't think they have the balls needed to get it done. The DF150's seem to be the best choice from everything that I can find. The E-techs are great lightweight motors, just pricey by comparison. I've recenetly considered a single DF300 with 30" shaft with a small 8hp 4sroke kicker mounted in the cabin. Is there anyone outthere running twin 150's 4 strokes on a Tsunami? In addition, I would not push your fuel tank towards the transom to offset the weight of the hardtop. It's not necessary, secondly, if you put twins on your boat you will have plenty of weight aft. I actualy pushed my tank 8 inches forward and have been very happy with the results. I rarely use tabs even in seas. I keep reading about twins on a 23, but its mostly from the guys with Center consoles that don't take into account the amout of weight a Tsunami has forward. An apple to an orange in my opinion. Looking forward to running into someone with a twin 4s setup. If not, I guess I'll be the first. Best of luck. Jason |
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Jason, I saw a classic 23' CC Saturday on the Homosassa river that had twin 4S 150 Yammies on the back, that were transom mounted. From how the boat rode in the water at idle, I'm guessing he had the transom raised, as he had about 5-6 inches of freeboard at the transom. Very quiet, even when he shoved the throttles and planed off. Never got to talk with the guy.
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Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
Jason,
Where did you get your 150gal tank..??....and what were the dimensions?? I'd like to get at least 130gallons... maybe a little more if I can fit it in. /d |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
Sorry, I haven't logged on in a while and didn't see your question.
I think the tank came from local guy in St. Petersburg FL. I'll see if I can dig up the specifics for you. Best of luck with your rebuild. |
Re: Tsunami/bracket power options
Thanks. No worries...things were moving slow due to work...now they're stopped due to a cut extnesor tendon in my left thumb.... :mad: I keep adding to the fleet....looking at a 25 Seafari twin I/O.....
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