77 23' Savage
 

Just got her today, straight from Virginia. Transport company unloaded at the marina and she was all mine. Didn't REALLY want a project boat, wanted something I could at least use while I cleaned it up a bit but that's not the case. Mechanic says motor is shot and not worth trying to get running. Oh well, I had budgeted for a new motor but was hoping I could at least run around in it for a little while before hand.

I'm sure I'm going to have a lot of questions along the way, I've read every single post on this site (I'm not kidding), and have learned a lot! However, I ALREADY am in need of help...

Where are the bilge pumps on the inboard Savage? I can't seem to find them anywhere, only the batteries are in the stern. There is a removable deck that runs from the center console to the stern (the majority of the floor), that looks like it covers up the two fuel tanks. I hope they are not under there!

Here are some pics...

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010024.jpg
Right off the trailer from Virginia, arrived Florida this morning.

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010025.jpg
Here it is after I removed all the junk including two buckets full of birds nest from the battery compartment in the stern. I also removed all the old cushions and bimini tops (2 of them). I'm planning for a T-Top so don't need the biminis.

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010026.jpg
The previous owner had already removed the bow pulpit. I have it but think I'm going to leave it off. Hatch needs to be replaced, will need to do that soon to stop the water intrusion into the cabin.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Bryan,

Great to see. Why don't you give us a list of the projects that you will be taking on?

Peter

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

I'd like to do only what is necessary to just be able to use it for awhile and figure out what I like and don't like before making any major changes, so this first list satisfies that goal. Afterwards I'll look at paint, possible console replacement and T-top.

• Replace motor - It's got a PMC (Pleasurcraft) motor in it now which is the original motor I've been told. It has not been run in 5 years, and when it was running last the carb was leaking fuel into the bilge and on the motor. Mechanic pulled the plugs and said they were rusted, so motor probably not worth pulling apart. Looking at this Crusader for about $7000.
• Restore and repair gelcoat on hull. Lot of little dings and things that need repair. May also get quotes on wet sanding it.
• Remove all the old electronics and crappy old speakers, and plug holes somehow.
• Find the bilge pumps!
• Bottom Paint

Let me know what ya'll think, I'm open to everyone's suggestions.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Regarding the motor. There is a possibility of saving some $$ on a new motor. If the extras that hang off the motor are good, then you can buy a long block. Also before buying a motor make sure the transmission is good. Rebuild the tranny before buying a new one (very expensive). If buying a new inboard at least get one that is fresh water cooled. If your old PCM is FWC save the tanks and have them boiled out. New ones are at least $500. Any thing that is good on the motor that you do not use or want put on ebay.

Have fun :D

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Found the bilge pump! It was in front of the engine under the console. There is also a hole for a drain plug up there, weird that this is in the middle of the boat. I'm not even sure you can get to the drain plug without tilting the console forward. There is access under the front console seat, but don't think it would be possible to reach.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

where are you located in Florida,would like to see your boat
looks, like she will be a great fishing machine.We need
a Savage atthe florida gatherings to bridge the gap between
center consoles and cuddies.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

I'm in Satellite Beach (on the East Coast south of Cocoa Beach). The boat is at a marina in Palm Bay, will be kept in a water slip. Should be about a 20 minute run to Sebastian Inlet from there :)

Would love to attend the next Florida gathering as long as I can get to it by water, don't have a trailer.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Hey Bryan,
We have quite a few CSC people in East Central.
Capt. Brad is in Melbourne, Capt Lloyd is in Merritt Isl.
I'm right on the Volusia/Brevard line.
Capt Chuck is in Stuart and 65 Bowrider in N Palm Beach,
plus there are a bunch more. Maybe we should plan a
Brevard are get together.....
Good Luck with the Savage. Ken

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

BRAYND,
The easy way here is buy the long block and rebuild the carb or buy new. Fresh water cooling is a good way to go, it saves the engine, two years ago I put in a new engine and trans. looking back I would have just had the trans rebuilt, I gave the whole works to a friend of a friend for his SEACRAFT and he has done nothing with it, but it was fresh water cooled and still a 76 unit running good. I was going to pull the motor and update it, when my wife said, "what are you stupid", I made the comment if I had to pull the engine/trans I would put a new engine/trans in. I put a new unit in and I put 3" spacers in to help keep out water ingestion into the engine, I think is the way to go. I went from a 351 233 to a 350, 315 hp good move so far, I have two friends each with 225 four sroke on 23 foot boat's and while running at 3200 rpm I get the gass milage they do.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

A whole bunch of us Seacraft owners here in Brevard. Well hopefully I'll get to use mine soon! I can't wait to get it going.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

I bet I'm going to have a BUNCH of questions for you :) First off what does the 3" spacers mean?

The motor I'm looking at is a 350 carburated rated at 300hp. I could go fuel injected for an extra $1000 or so and get 330hp. I think I like the simplicity of the carb though.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Ken,where is it going to be and when,The tall one only
camps in hotels or the motor home and it's ready to go

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

That is defintely not the boat I was looking at, The one I considered was white and it was running, But you have a great boat there! I hope you got a good price on her, and I hope you show us pictures once you're done! Congrats!!!

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Ok NoBones...you just committed to organizing a gathering on THIS SIDE of the state.
Just tell me WHEN & WHERE...WE'LL BE THERE!!!

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Spacers.......on inboards and I/Os the engine is down in the hull.....the exhaust manifolds have risers on them...they go up...and then down to the exhaust...through the prop usually for an I/O, or through some muffler system and transom for an inboard. The spacer raises the height of the riser even higher....that's so a wave doesn't force water into the engine through the exhaust...there are flapper valves in the exhausts as well....but it's all to keep that evil water out.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Good luck. Having gutted a 1975 IB which is basically the same setup, I can respond with some experience:

Tanks under aft deck, 2 @ 50 gals +/-. If original replace. Keep them for fabricator to use. They are in tight and you may want them to be made 1/2 shallower because the decks sometimes ride on them. Also moisture collects under them so get expoxy coated tanks.

Drain plug is where you found it, not easy to get to. I suggest a rear bilge pump also near shaft log.

Your shaft should be 1 and qtr inch, if original, could be an issue with new engine torque....

If you can afford it, get a new bob-tail fuel injected engine. Also check and make sure that the EFI engine has a "cooling pot" for the hot unspent fuel to return to...

Most trans are 1 and a half turn. By the time you find everything to replace, easier and perhaps cheaper to go all new. Also, this is a heavy boat and you may want the EFI to save fuel.

Original engines were mostly Ford 351's, mine came with it.

Good luck, great boat.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Thanks Jeff...

Yep, have already pulled up the hatch and seen the two tanks there. Being aluminum is it not possible to just pressure test and use them if the test ok?

Was planning on 2 bilge pumps, there is an access hatch just behind the console to the shaft so that sounds like a good place to put another one.

I'm really on the fence with the new motor. $$$ Just keeps adding up when I add FWC and EFI. Mechanic here doesn't think the raw water cooling is such a big deal, says he sees more engines die for other reasons then that, plus the one in there has been going for 30 years with raw water cooling.

Would like the EFI to but again more $$$.

I think mines a GM. I have to check that tomorrow, engine guy said GM's had distributer in back, and Fords are in front (I think that's right).

Sigh... I'm really just at the point where I want to tell the mechanic to pull the old one and order the new one. I've been reading and researching untold hours and still unsure of the right thing to do.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Here are some pictures of the existing motor, looks like it's definitely a GM block with the distributor in the back.

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010033.jpg

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010034.jpg

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Looks like a small block chev to me, with dual plane intake, holley carb.......brings back memories of the hot rod years!!

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

And the exhaust manifolds already have the 3"/4" extensions between them and the risers.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

I know this is a hard thing to do. However stand back and take a deep breath. Don't do anything for at least a month. By then every thing will seem much clearer and you will make better decisions. :D

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Old motor came out today... new one on order. I'm going to try and use the old transmission to start out with.

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010050.jpg

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010051.jpg

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/barr.jpg

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Do yourself a favor, from some one who has been there. Rebuild the tranny and save your self future headaches ;)

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

What kind of problems did you run into with the old transmission IslandTrader? What did it cost you to rebuild, I've seen the exact transmission as I have on Ebay for $1700 rebuilt, or I could buy a brand new one from the place I bought the engine for $2200. Guy I bought the engine from talked me into trying the old one first though.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Let me explain further. I am sure you are in a boating area, and that there are people that rebuild transmissions. In my area,(Sarasota) I can get it done for $600. Yes for the price difference why buy a rebuilt. However what I am trying to save you is the headache of pulling the old engine taking off the tranny, put it on the new engine, drop it in, and find out it does not work. Now you have to pull the new engine again, and then rebuild the tranny (or buy) then reassemble and start all over again. If the boat has not been under water and has been running before, the tranny is probly good. Pull the dipstick. If the oil looks new, then I am sure you can get away with out doing anything. However I think it is cheap insurance, at this point.

Anybody out there have another take on this?

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Yea that's what the guy who sold me the engine said to do, that and check the filter and change it and the seals. Said you really don't have anything to loose. Luckily on this boat I don't think you have to pull the motor to get the tranny out. It's all very accessible when you pull that back deck up.

New motor actually arrived yesterday while I was down there cleaning out the bilge, that was VERY quick, didn't expect it that soon. Just ordered it on Thursday.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

Tanks are out now and they don't look too bad. They were epoxied on bottom and sides so may not be originals. I don't know, any chance the factory would have done that on the Savages?

Also can anyone explain how the blower system works on the inboards? There is a blower/motor in the stern on the port side, hooked up to large flexible piping. The piping goes to the rear vent and I believe the forward vent. On the starboard side the flexible pipe is there but it's not hooked up to the blower.

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010056.jpg

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010061.jpg

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

If you look at the tanks some place near the filler there should be a plate or sticker that tells when they were made.

As far as the blower, think of it as a vacuum cleaner. It's job is to suck the air out of the bilge. So one end of the hose should be in the low part of the bilge and the other to an exit point. The other hose is to allow circulation while the boat is running under power. That way the blower is not on at all times. The bilge air is then removed by a venturi process. Hope this helps.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

This is possibly a minor point, but I learned (and it makes sense if you think about it) that the blower should be mounted so that it sucks fresh air in and delivers it to the bilge/below deck areas where it will be forced out the remaining vents, along with the air in the bilge go any accumulated fumes from fuel, etc.

If you mount the blower so that it picks up the bilge air and pushes through the blower and then out through the vent, you run the risk of drawing up fume laden air in the bilge and forcing it past an electric motor that more than likely is creating sparks at the armature portion to the electric motor; a potential disaster!

Because of this, it is recommended that the blower be run for 5 minutes prior to engaging the starter or even turning on the ignition. In our boats this should provide time for about a three to five fold exchange of outside air through the bilge.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

You could be right on this. However I believe the blower motor is built so that it will not spark on start up. I think they call this spark arrested? Anyway the best test is the nose test.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

You are likely right, however. I witnessed a teenager jumping into a Donzi equiped with an I/O tied to a dock on Lake Murray in SC. He didn't run the blower and immediately turned the key. The explosion not only destroyed the boat but killed the boy and injured a near by observer.

As contributed on another thread on this site, my personal policy is to run the blower for 5 minutes WITH the engine cover lifted with no one else aboard, if at all possible, prior to cranking the engine.

As I said, Just me 2 cents.

Re: 77 23' Savage
 

in my boat I have two hoses on each side ,

1 on each side that goes between the hull and liner near the stern that naturally asperates(sp), and the other two that run directly in the main bilge and on one side I have the blower installed (exhausting outward. ) Nothing works better than a sniff test- one before starting, one before and after fueling. The bl=ilge blower motors are sealed so no sparks from them. You dont want to be turning other switches on and off while fueling though. craig

Quick Update
 

Been on vacation, but back now and boat is progressing again. Have the bilge painted and new motor in. Found a local guy to do the console and he's filling all the holes so it will be a blank canvas to re-fit. Waiting on just that now before maiden run.

Mechanic ran the engine before he put it in and said it sounds great! Can't wait to get it out on the water.

New motor with old tranny attached.
http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010170.jpg

I also pulled out all the old wire today and will start the re-wire this weekend. The previous owner had used some kind of garden hose as bilge pump hoses, I also pulled all that out.
http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010171.jpg

Re: Quick Update
 

Console painted and starting to get fitted out. Big difference without a thousand holes in it!

http://www.dolnik.com/images/blog/p1010175.jpg