20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

I'm looking at several 20 seacrafts in my area, all have been restored. The 1989 has a 2001 150 Fitch w/o bracket. The 1974 has a '94 200 Merc and a 25" transom. The 1973 has a '96 Merc 200 w/ bracket.

I'm looking at all of them this weekend and i was wondering if the 20 foot seacrafts perform better with or with out a bracket? Are there any differences in the model years as to quality, features, etc.?

Looking forward to being a full boat owning member...

Maurice.

P.S. I looked at some 23's and they are a little big on the trailer for what i'm looking for.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

When the 20' SeaCraft was designed, it was supposed to have a 115/140 hp motor on it. Usually a big 4 cyl. It seems that most guys are putting heavier 175-250 6 cyl on them now. With the 20" transom, that is too heavy and too low for most of these boats. Maybe with the 25" transom, it's not to bad, but I would stay away from a 20" transom with a big motor if for no other reason, safety.

The other option was to put a big bathtub bracket on the thing, and then hang the big iron of the back. I have heard mixed results, some like them, some say it screws the boat up. It probably depends on the bracket used, and how it is hung. It is usually a balance issue on the ones I have been on. If I was looking for a 20, I would probably look for one with a 25" transom, no bracket.

Test drive them an let us know what you find. BTW, that 150 fict weighs (400 lbs) almost as much as the 200 merc (460 lbx).

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

This was a BIG decision on restoring my 20'MA / 25" / merc.150. I researched most all w/ brackets & looked asked everybody(Mostly ol' Timers-Before SeaCrafts were cooool). from Lower Miami to 'bout Marathon_Mid Keys.Bunch of em' ,Saw maybe 2- 20's.I wanted a 20' not a made 23-You will not get that ride with a 20' But then I can go where they can't & Vice-Versa. The verdict was No Bracket. Too much weight hang'n that far back & didn't want a "SinkCraft". 23's Without a doubt. There are a few with them now.They seem to like em.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Brad & John, thank you for your advice, I think i'll lean towards 20 seacrafts with a 25" transom. I'm assuming that you measure the 25" from the top of the transom to the bottom of the boat hull, in the center???

Thank you, Maurice

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

keywasted, there are so few 20 with brackets, that its hard to say which is the way to go. My suggestion is to try and get a sea trial on both and decide for yourself. Explain to the owners what you are trying to see, they should'nt have a problem with a test run

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Ryan is right, and I closed my post with that same thought, sea trial and see what you think. There was quite a discussion over on classicmako.com about brackets on boats less than 23', the pros and cons. The general thought, at least on planet mako over there was that the brackets didn't work well on boats 21' and under. I know the mako and seacraft are different, but the issues of balance/etc would be the same on most boats in that size range. I don't know what the production numbers were, but I think there were a lot more makos, than seacrafts. There were more that had brackets put on them too.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

yall remember my 20' seafari with a bracket and 140 johnyzuke, after running it all summer in some beautiful and and some 2-3 chop days and i will say that anything under 2' the boat runs great and barely ever pounds but throw some 3's in there and its hard to stay over 22mph or so, it really starts to launch and bounce all over, kinda feels like there might be too much weight back there. anyways i love the room it affords and wouldnt change it but i have never ridden on an un bracked one. bushwaker? im in west palm lets get together sometime and see how they compare...

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

I would also shy away from the 20" transom w/ a big motor-sure to take water over the transom. I added a B-Bracket to my 20', and I believe it rides better, not to mentioned the space you gain. I did have some CG issues(If I did it over, I would use a bracket with more floatation and some lift, like a Potter bracket), but after alittle tweeking (moving batteries and adding some ballast forward) I'm happy. Try to ride on them all and let us know what you think. Good Luck!

Lloyd

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

I have a 73 20SC with a stainless Marine bracket "positive flotaion" with a mercury 200hp. Boat handles like a bigger boat. It will porposie a little at like 3200 rpm then I need to play with the tabs. Plus I can cruise at plain at lower RPM. I have pics but don't know how to send them

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

What bracket is on that boat? I think that makes a big difference. I have a 1976 18 SF I had a Potter Design/ Hermco Bracket installed on the boat a month ago. I have a 1999 Evinrude Ficht 175 that weights 435lbs. The boat had a 20 inch transom with a 1988 Evinrude 150. The boat floats and rides better. I like that the transom is closed in giving more room in the boat. Just my opinion.
Tony

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

JohnB nailed the key issue regarding brackets - balance! When the 20' hull was designed in the 60's, the biggest OB's were the I-6 Merc & V-4 OMC's that weighed about 275-300 lbs. With that setup, the gas tank was centered right on the cg so trim didn't change with fuel load. I ran my Seafari for over 30 years with a 115 V-4; it cruised easily at about 20 kts with a heavy, 2-weeks-in-the-Bahamas type load, rode well and always felt well balanced. At the Anclote Key gathering in March, I asked Carl Moesly about the design parameters on the 20, and he said it was designed primarily for inshore use, unlike the 21, which was designed for offshore use (and racing!) with much less dynamic lift, so it would cut thru big seas w/o becoming airborne. The relatively light weight and low deadrise of the 20 shows up in head seas at or above about 3', because it will get airborne pretty easy if you run much over 20 kts. With a light motor and a lot of gear in the cabin, I found I could trim motor and tabs down and plane at 12-13 kts and ride very comfortably (sitting down) in 4 and even 5' head seas provided period was about 6 sec or more. This is a big deal when you're running 165 nm to the Abaco's! The only thing I didn't like was that open transom in big following seas! On my first (of 6) trip across the Gulf stream, we had winds of only 10 kts, but it clocked from NW->N->NE! We were about 30 miles out (middle of stream, max current) when wind was N - seas were 6-8' with an occasional breaker, and seemed to be only about 40-50' apart, steep enough that I was worried about stuffing the bow into the back of a big one and pitchpoling! I guarantee that most folks in those conditions will "get religion" if they haven't already done so! (MORAL: if there is ANY wind out of ANY northern quadrant, stay the hell out of the Gulf Stream!!)

Sure wished I had a solid transom at that time, so when I finally repowered last year, I had the transom closed in, picked bracket with most flotation and lightest & quietest motor I could find, the V-6 150(165!) E-Tec at 427 lbs. I probably would have bought the V-4 115(125) which is about 50 lbs lighter but they were not yet in production. Waterline is within about an inch of original and boat is still self bailing, so the big bracket maintains static balance provided you don't go nuts with engine weight. I believe the Seafari has more weight forward than the cc, so it probably will handle a bracket better than a cc also. When you're up on plane however, bracket flotation is gone and the boat KNOWS there is a bunch more weight on it's ass, located 30" further aft! I believe this tends to hurt the ride a little, but you can compensate with a good stern lifting prop. A 4 blade prop was a big improvement over 3B. The bracket allows you to raise motor a lot (My cav plate is about 4.5" above keel) and is probably worth 2-3 mph in top end. I've seen almost 50 mph which seems to be pretty good for a 150 on the 20' hull, although I care about ride much more than speed. It WILL start to porpoise if motor is trimmed out more than about 60% (0=full down, 100=full up). This condition is most efficiently corrected by changing thrust angle (motor trim); trim tabs will also do it, but they add drag as well as lift, so use power trim to change running angle and use the tabs for side-to-side balance! Just my .02 FWIW. Denny

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

You can see how much higher out of the water a 25" motor sits

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/Tims%20...t/DSCN7007.JPG

I had this boat backing up into white caps along side the berkeley pier in nasty afternoon SF Bay winds rescuing a kayaker and his river kayak (upside down full of water). There's no way I could have done that with my 20 MA and open transom.

The seafari with the bracket doesn't corner at high speeds like the MA and the reverse handling isn't as good, but I'm seriously considering filling in the transom on the MA and doing another bracket this winter.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Can anyone give a similar description to bushwacker's about their experience with a floatation bracket on a 20SF (the center console)? I am redoing my '72 and have seriously contemplated putting a bracket with a floatation chamber on. I plan on moving the fuel tank forward and batteries under the console to compensate for the extra weight on the transom. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

I added a bracket to my '73 20cc in 2003, I love having the bracket, the room I gained, and I have never had any worries of water over the transom whether running, drifting, or backing down. And having the full swim platform is fantastic for diving/swimminmg

But I would do a few things different. The B-Bracket I used doesn't have enough floatation IMO. Also it has a 30" set back, I could have used a 28" set back (the set back allows enough room for the motor to tilt all the up without the cowling touching the closed in transom) With my Suzuki 140, I could have used the 28", and when moving that kind of wieght farther back, every inch counts.

On plane, my boat would porpoise if the motor wasn't trimmed way down and/or the trim tabs way down. I added 150 lbs of lead to the forward compartment (I guess this makes my boat a "Pig Boat")and moved my batteries forward, this helped the porpoise problem as well as the static trim.

I like Bushwackers 4 blade stern lifting prop suggestion, I will try that when I get a chance. I'm also considering building a fiberglass shell to attach around the B-Bracket to add floation to the stern, then I may be able to remove some of the lead.

I would say use a Hermco bracket, keep wieght as far forward as you can, and play with different props. Like mentioned before, the 20cc was not originally designed to have the motor set that far back, so you will have to do some tweeking, but for what you gain with the bracket, I feel its worth it! Good luck!

Lloyd

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

I have a question for the guys that have brackets on their boats. If you have a hermco bracket, is it contacting the water when you on plane? If it is, that is more wet area, and your loosing effieciency, and defeating one of the reasons to have a bracket in the first place???

I thought one of the big ideas of a bracket is you could take a 23' boat, turn it into a 27', without increasing the wet area/aka drag. This allows you to put big motors on the back and have extra floatation when at rest when you need it, and less drag/per foot on the hull when under way. If the bracket is dry when your running, it adds zero floatation. I am putting an armstrong on mine, and looking at it, it appears that it will not contact the water when on plane, and the floatation chamber only adds floatation when at rest.
Am I missing something?

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

John - the Hermco bracket is completely out of the water when you're on plane, so doesn't add any drag. It probably reduces drag because you can mount the motor higher. Of course the flotation also goes away on plane. Like I said earlier, the boat knows you've changed the weight distribution, so beware of hanging a heavy motor on a bracket. I didn't notice any porpoising until I raised the motor 2" from where Don Herman originally mounted it, and I considered that a good trade for the extra performance I got. Even now it doesn't porpoise until motor is trimmed out to about 60-65% of max (where 0% is full down), so not a big deal. This may be the result of the SeaFari being better balanced than a cc (more weight forward) to begin with.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Transom angle is 16 degree's right?

im want to put one on mine too

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

CaptLloyd - What size/shape prop are you running and what speeds are you getting at certian revs, at least cruise and top end? i have the same set up (140 johnnyzuk on bracket) on my seafari (with bottom paint and big ass top) and the fastest ive seen is 37mph but thats going with the current, i can cruise at 29 at 4200 and wide-o about 35mph on a good day, i think i may need to adujst my cables though, but please post your #'s im very iterested,

Thank
Ben

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

bushwacker,
Thanks for the reply. I think the boat manufactures figured this out when they started putting brackets on new boats, and adjusted the center of balance forward. I think they move the gas tank forward, and I also noticed the the consoles are starting to move forward too. I do think the Sceptre/Safaries fair better from this modification than the CC's from a balance perspective. I can't wait to splash mine and see what the differences are. I left my gas tank in the same place, I was already bow heavy with the top on my boat. It also had 2 "pig iron" balast weights in the back that I removed. I think they wieghed about twice what the bracket does, so it should be neutral.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

I think the big tops hold us back. My 18 with a 150 only sees 42 with everything else being correct. 15 1/4 x 19 prop. When I first tested it there was no top. It seemed a lot faster but I was so excited I forgot to look at the gps.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Transom angle on all the 20' SeaCrafts is 14 degrees.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

This is on the take off . . . if I punch it with the motor trimmed down. The boat rockets up on a plane and the bow will stay down. The sternlift from the mirage plus helps quite a bit.

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...308_Medium.jpg
http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...309_Medium.jpg

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Does that prop hold well enough to trim the motor up and lift the boat for max speed also. Thats supposed the be about the best prop for these boats. I run a Michigan Apollo which picks up the stern but really doesn' t give a whole lot of bow lift when necessary.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

It holds the water like a screw moving through wood on the take off. I need to raise the motor on my boat up a hole or two, but I love mirage plus for these boats.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Hey Big Shrimpin and Fr Frank,

Thanks for the previous advice.
I was up in Stuart Fri at the 50% off sale and got a very nice 17p mirage plus at a nice price. Can`t wait to try it. :cool: Anyone want a michigan wheel? 14 1/2 x 17p
GFS

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Good to know. That Michigan prop breaks loose and makes the boat porpoise at about 30% trim.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Ben, those numbers seem a bit low. I have a 20' Seafari, with a remanufactured Merc 150, probably putting out about 190-200 hp. I also have SlicKote bottom paint. With a new, stock lower unit, I can run about 42 mph on the GPS at WOT, loaded with 4 adults, full fuel, and the Bimini up. With the top down, just myself, and full fuel I can run about 47-48.

With my old lower unit, Bob's nose-cone w/ low water pick-up I could touch 53 mph under the right weather conditions: cold air, high humidity, 10-15 knot winds, light to moderate wind chop and running downwind. At 50+ mph, a Seafari positively dances across the chop like a ballerina :) It feels like it's almost airborne, just touching the tops of the waves; very light and nimble, like it could chine-walk, but simply has too much class and manners to behave in such an unseemly fashion.

It's truly exhilarating. Just one of the reasons I love the Seafari.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Ben,

I'm running a Power Tech Prop, 3 blade SS, and if I remember correctly, it's 15X16 (I'm not near my boat right now, so I can't confirm). Anyway, I know I'm alittle under proped, but I wanted to get good low end performance out of the 4-stroke (running Sebastian inlet, low end punch is a must) At 4500rpm I cruise 23kts(26mph), and WOT, 6100rpm and 36kts(41mph). These numbers are running light, with 30 gal livewell, a few more guys, and the rest of the stuff, I lose 2-3kts. I know I'm not setting any speed records, but the hole shot is descent for a 4-stroke. The first prop I tried was a 20 pitch, my boat would do almost 50mph @ 5500rpm, but the hole shot was terrible. Then I tried a 18 pitch, light load conditions it was fine, but with the livewell full and 3 guys, it was a bit slow out of the hole. So I went with the 16, and gave up some top end speed. I would like to try the mirage plus and see how it works.

I hope this info helps. Good Luck

Lloyd

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

BTW, I also run a PowerTech prop, although mine's a custom 15X16.5 pitch, behind a 1.64 gear ratio.

Calculated slip ratio, properly trimmed, is about 11% with this prop, an excellent, very low slip ratio. My experience is that most props, even high-performance props show effective or "apparent" slip ratios between 15% and 20%, depending on the application.

The weight of the load, depth of the prop, angle of attack, all obviously make a huge difference, as well. Having a prop with excessive pitch that will not turn up into the powerband of the motor can give you slip ratios approaching 30%

For instance, a very well set up high-performance bass boat might show an apparent slip of only 8% to 9%. A 23' SeaCraft will be doing very well indeed to get below 18%

At any rate, my max RPM behind the new lower unit gearcase now is about 5900. (Old case w/ nosecone was 6100, with slip of 10.5%) I also went with the lower pitch prop for loaded holeshot and acceleration under adverse sea conditions. The motor also doesn't strain as hard at cruise rpm of 3900 - 4000, about 32-33 mph.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Fr. Frank,

Thanks for the great info, I like the numbers you're getting. My gear ratio is 2.59:1 on my Suzuki 140 4-stroke, and I know we're comparing apples and oranges with your boat/motor setup and my boat/motor setup, but my question is do you think I may gain some overall performance with a 4 blade prop? I know we'll getting into "mystery science" with all the variables involved, but I'm curious about any experience with 3 blade vs. 4 blade.

Thanks again!

Lloyd

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

With the appropriate 4 blade, you'll gain performance in every area except top end speed. You will lose some top end.

The only exception to that rule is when running a surfacing 4 blade over hub cleaver, and even then that's only if you have LOTS of power to spare, say running a 300 HPDI on a 20' SeaCraft with a jack plate. :eek:

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Frank & Lloyd - i dont think my numbers are to far off, Lloyd do you have bottom paint? i am currently running a 14 1/4 x 19 inch prop, if yours is infact 15 inch diameter let me know, i did not think i could swing that big a prop on the 140 but if i can i will step up

thanks
Ben

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

My PowerTech is a 15.25" Diameter X 16.5" Pitch 3 blade, polished. It's a custom propeller from back when I had money. The regular size PowerTech are even inch measurements.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Ben,

No, I do not have bottom paint, it's painted with Awlgrip. I'll confirm my prop size when I get home in a few days.

Fr. Frank,

If the opportunity presents itself, I may give a 4 blade a try, just to see.

Lloyd

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Lloyd,

Sorry for the confusion (or my ignorance), but is your bracket a "floatation" bracket? I was talking to armstrong the other day and they told me they would build me one with a floatation chamber in it. I guess the only different b/t the floatation bracket vs the none would be when not on a plane (keep your feet dry).

From reading it seems like the boat does not perform very well on plane (with a bracket). I definitely have no desire to add 150 lbs of lead to balance the boat.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Zach,

I have a B-Bracket, and I do not consider it a floatation bracket. There is a small enclosed chamber, but there is so little of it in the water that it doesn't add much positive bouyancy. Perhaps there is another solution besides adding ballast to the porpoising issue I had (stern lifting prop, motor hieght/trim). But for the room I gained, seaworthiness, and the advantages of the large swim platform, I still like the bracket. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong bracket, but have an idea how to better my situation (I'll start a thread on the repair forum as I get close to diving into that project).

I hope this info helps.

Lloyd

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Ben,

I checked my prop this weekend, forgive me, my earlier info is incorrect. My PowerTech prop is 13X18. The diameter was not marked on the prop, but I measured it at 13", the 18 pitch was marked as part of the serial #. So I first tried a 20 pitch, then 19, and ended up with the 18.

And Ben, you are correct, a 15" prop will not fit on my Zuk 140.

Lloyd

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

So would that involve weldong on a chamber.....I have a stainless marine twin bracket....not much real flotation, but since the bracket structurally is already complete, it looks like adding a chamber for flotation would be simple and the chamber wouldn't need the strength to support the motors.

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

;) You're on to my plan, except I was thinking fiberglass shaped like a Hermco/Potter. Make the "tub" from a mold, then bolt it on.

Any thoughts?

Re: 20' SeaCraft - better w/ or w/o a bracket ???
 

Don't see why it wouldn't work........have to make really sure it's held on well enough and any holes were water tight.....