21 Hull #136...Restoration...Started
 

OK the time has come. Since I have never done a boat before, let me hear from all you brave souls who have gone before me :D

As you may know from previous posts, it is a Moesly 21.

I want to do a complete gut out(after 40 years she deserves it).

My first question is this. IF you were doing it how would you start? Would you attack the transom first. Or would you take out the floors and cockpit first. Or???

Need input, since the old i/o is coming out between now and Christmas, and my enthusiasm is overpowering my common sense, so slap me back into reality.

Thanks,

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Build a cradle to support the hull.

Leave the cap on.

only replace one stringer at a time (do not rip out all the stringers at once - you can cause a permanent hook in the hull)

make cardboard templates of everything before you tear it apart (floor, stringers, etc.)

Budget for the materials and time and then multiply by 5.

Buy in Bulk (composites one)

Refrain from buying boat jewelry and electronics until all the fiberglass work is done. (you can blow your whole budget this way).

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...7/DSCN6248.jpg

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Don't forget the beer!! :D

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Also if you are planning on coring things with marine ply or need temporary work benches. Sign Makers use MDO (almost as good as marine ply - dougfir AB). . . when billboard signs comedown 1/2" and 3/4" 4x8 sheets of MDO can be bought for $5 - $10 a sheet.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Why wait for them to take the signs down. I look at it as beautifing the interstate by tearing them down.
Take out a 2nd mortgage, don't let your wife see the materials cost, and whatever you do, don't count the hours you put into it. Those would be the first 3 steps.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restoration
 

Figure out how you want this to come out in the end. You can spend how ever much money you would like when restoring. The sky is the limit with how much you can invest. Figure out what you will reuse and what you will buy new. I decided to go all new and I think I could have bought a cheaper but new 20 ft bay boat for what I have into mine. It must be a labor of love.
My advise is to make a list of all the things you would like to do and focus on 1 thing then move to the next. I am restoring a 20 SF. I sometimes find myself getting staring one thig and hoping to another.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Thanks for all the sage advice.
One thing I have under control is the budget. Selling 3 boats this year has left me with a good restore budget. Now adding the power will be another question...and one that I will not have to face for a while.

Really my question is. The outdrive and engine are out. I am thinking heavily on a parallelogram bracket. Do I rip out the transoms first and then the floors. Or do I do just the opposite? Or take the transom out. Leave open, and then take the floors out. Put a new transom in and then start building the floors. :o

It is daunting. However I wanted to do this, so I am mentally ready. :rolleyes:

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

I would remove the floors and gain access to the transom and the stringers. Based upon what you find would lead to the next step. If the stringers are good, I would remove the transom from the inside. Then sand everything that is exposed. Replace the transom, paint the bilge and minor repair any stringer work and start on the deck. If stringer work is required I would remove only the stringers closest to the transom, repair the transom and then go after the stringers. Bottom line, only perform one major structural project at a time unless you can secure components. I remember Strick having a problem with his hull widening when he removed the deck (inner liner) and the sides widened causing him to modify the upper cap. So you need to consider this happening when doing major repairs.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

This is already one good piece of advice. I was so used to looking at a lot of photo's of people doing this from the outside, that I really never gave it much thought from the inside.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Terry, remember the 21's were very well built and survived some very rough offshore races w/o problems, which means they've got lots of structural margin for normal use. :) I'd be real careful about ripping something out just because it's old, unless it's obviously rotten like the front deck. At least do a little exploratory surgery first. I will forward your e-mail with the photo's to Bob to see if he had any problem areas on the Unohu that you might want to check out. Fresh water is worse for causing rot than salt water, so whatever did not rot after all those years of exposure to fresh water, is probably ok for salt water. Big Shrimpin's right, it's easy to CREATE problems if you're not careful. I'd put the emphasis on fixing enough stuff to get it operational, and then use it for awhile to get a better idea of what you might want to change. I'd hate to do all the work involved with a full restoration and the later regret that I had not made some significant modification that I thought of AFTER using the boat in it's original configuration! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I do like your idea of a jack plate instead of a full bracket, although that boat was well balanced with a 1000# outdrive, so a bracket and a single V-6 2-stroke would probably provide similar balance. If someone like Fr. Frank on the forum knows the weights of the old outdrive leg and engine, it would be fairly easy to calculate the equivalent moment for an outboard set back off the transom.

I used to have a kicker with a parallelogram/4-bar linkage bracket on my previous boat. Might not be hard to make one and rig it up with a hydraulic cylinder. There's an outfit in the midwest that makes jack plates and trim/tilt brackets; will see if I can find a web site for them. Denny

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

All of the above info is right on. I'd like to add something as well though.

Take your time....and work cleanly.

By taking your time that means to work smarter and not necessarily harder. I have a tendency to just jump into things and figure out as I go along. Although I planned for my SC project I didn't do as much planning or work as methodically as I should have.

For instance, instead of fairing my deck inside the boat, I should have taken the deck plates laid them up on a piece of MDF or formica, then glassed them into the hull. It would have been more work initially, but this would have saved HOURS of fairing in the long run.

Also work neatly as possible, piece meal as much glasswork as you can. Try and keep everything neat...believe it or not, it shows in the end product.

I envy your project. She's a very rare, very fine craft.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

I finally got the engine and out drive out. Look at the picture... the out drive hole glass is 5/16 inches thick.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3015.jpg

As far as a bracket check this sight out. http://www.portaproducts.com/bracket_story.html

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Suspicions confirmed! Moesly sure didn't skimp on the glass! That wood looks pretty dry - is it?

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

If that transom wood is good . . . clean it up and make a plug like this one. No sense in ripping out a perfectly good transom.

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...7/DSCN6323.jpg

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

I'm probably going to catch a flogging for this, but I would keep the I/O. As a matter of fact I would keep the boat as original as possible. It will be a true Classic !

-Alex

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

You won't get flogged from me, however the i/o is out and is not going back in. :D

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Whatcha doing with the outdrive?
Are you putting on an armstrong or stainless marine platform/ OB bracket? If so what will you be hanging off that?

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Every thing is going on ebay. All freshwater stuff.

Check out this sight. This is what I am thinking today.
Slick Setup

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Brackett is cool! What will its function/purpose be on your boat?
If its not serving any particular function that is shalow water related and you plan on keeping the original transom, I would suggest an armstrong, stainless marine, or similar bracket/ platform as it will distribute the weight and loads across more of the transom. Plus you will have the benefit of the swim platform. The costs are the same. you can add a hydraulic jackplate. I found a used one for $300 that was in near new condition.
Cant wait to see you finished project, good luck to you.
BTW how were the stringers and transom?

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

I thought of the armstrong Potter type, and I just don't like the looks, for this boat. I want an outboard so this seems to fit the bill. The other option is to v cut the transom to regular OB shape.

Since I live on the west coast of Florida the water here is skinny. Running out to the grouper holes is the other option. So the bracket would serve 2 purposes.

I have not done a complete inspection yet on stringers. Floor need to come out first.

The transom right now would be a patch job. However I just may replace the whole thing. I will ponder that for awhile.

First thing is to get the bottom blasted, and see what we have there.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Yesterday took off the front deck skin. This is what I found.
http://lh4.google.com/78kent/R3ObhVy...4/IMG_3022.jpg

No surprise,I knew it was soft.

The question of the day is...do I reuse the old skin? It looks like its in good shape. The picture does not show well, however I left a 2" lip to attach the fix to.

Other question is the under glass mat sags to form more of a bowl shape. I need to "crown" this up. Any ideas?

Thanks for your help.





21 Deck

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Looks like balsa squares. If so, that's exactly what we found under our bowrider deck...some wet which caused a soft spot. We removed all the balsa, cleaned, dried thoroughly. Then replaced with several pieces of wood encapsulated in epoxy & resealed the skin with fiberglass strips overlapping the cut seam. Before beginning, build a support brace under the deck to support the crown shape desired until the new deck has dried, then remove brace. Our deck is now very solid.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

After my first shopping trip for supplies :o I see what you mean. $700 just to get me going. Am I having fun yet!

No need to worry about the wife. She tells all her friends that think I am crazy..."It's better than have him sitting on a bar stool" I guess thats why were married 30 years. :D

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

that is such a blessing
My wife is really supportive, despite the time I will be working on the boat and not spending time with her or our child. She understands my passion for boats and water! Plus she loves to fish also!

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

That looks familiar!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...Picture001.jpg
I got the 3/8 marine plywood from my friendly sign guy.
I cut the 3/8" marine plywood into 4 x 4" squares, glued it down with thickened epoxy then covered it with 1708. I took the 1708 right to the edge of the cap both sides.You can jump up and down on the deck no flex after 2 years.
keep the pics coming.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

I went a little high tech. I bought some composite Tuff Stuff S/S. After I make a crown and epoxy, hopefully I will use the old skin, or do what you did.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Keeping things organized.
Deck Question

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Well this week was hectic. First get the boat off the island and to the blaster....then get the boat back on island...then get the boat off the trailer and on to blocks and stands.

All accomplished :D

The hull did not look all that bad, the blaster said there are a bunch of pin holes, but no sign of water intrusion. It looks like I will be putting and filling for a while.

Pulling of trailer
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3128.jpg
On to Jacks
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3130.jpg
Sun dried transom
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3080.jpg
Pin holes
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3077.jpg
Moisture readings
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3127.jpg
Holy Dash
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3141.jpg


Thats it for now.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Updated...1-21-08

Removed the rear floors yesterday. Not a bad job. It was interesting to see that the rear part was a molded pan and then glassed in. The transom part of the floor had the bond broken and was just flopping around.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3168.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3167.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3166.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3170.jpg

Today if it warms up here in sunny Florida, I will do some grinding on the bottom.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

You are making some quick work of that boat! Won't be long... BTW Looking great! That Thru-hull hole in the bow, the glass layup looks to be close to 1/2 inch thick???

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Looks like you are making headway. I sent you a PM, check it out and let me know if you are interested. You are doing much the same type work I did and this helped me more than anything else I tried.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Yeah I have been having some trouble getting the resin to harden with the cold/wet weather!

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

I was having the same problem up here in VA until I got a propane tube heater. they are $100 at Wallyworld and they work great. just make sure that you dont put it too close. If it gets too hot it tends to do weird stuff to the resin.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

Wallyworld?

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

I think you should reconsider the bracket and keep the boat as original as possible with a notch for the OB, it would look awesome with a 200-250hp unit from one of the big outfits!

Keep it original !
 

Well if I reconsider I would stay with I/O. I am certain I do not want to reconstruct the whole transom to notch it,splash well and the works.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

I think he is referring to Wal-Mart.

Re: Advice Need...Getting Ready to Start Restorati
 

thats the one.

Stripped Out!
 

Over the weekend got some work done on the "21".
Took out the overnighter boxes and the Jockey Boxes. The boat now has gone from a weekender to a Sportsman. All that is left is to remove the last two sections of floor and then start the rebuilding process.

One box gone.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3183.jpg

Underneath shot of V-Bunk.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3186.jpg

2 boxes gone.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3188.jpg

Rear Transom shot.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3191.jpg

You know a Mercruiser 350 is looking better all the time. :D

Re: Stripped Out!
 

looking good !
Ya know VW has a 265hp turbo diesel out.......Hmmmm.