Bracket Modification
 

I closed in my transom and added a B-Bracket to my 1973 20cc 5 years ago. I love the bracket/swim platform concept, but I came to realize I put on the WRONG bracket. When I ordered it, I specified that it was going on a Seacraft with a 14* transom angle and I was going to hang a 25" shaft motor. After I mounted the bracket, I noticed it angled downward, and after I hung the motor with the assistance of the outboard shop where I bought my Suzuki, it was evident that the B-Bracket is better suited for a 20" shaft motor.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...d/Seadog16.jpg
When I splashed the boat and seatrialed, I was appalled by the wall of water the would drown my brand new motor during the transition to plane :eek: I was out of time and motivation to tear it apart and battle with B-Bracket,
so I fabricated this "Frankenstien" to add some planing surface and protect the motor from the water.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...d/IMGP1303.jpg
This solved the problem and the boat has been operating just fine for five years, but now I've been inspired by this site to do a better fix :) My plan is to fabricate a fiberglass tub basically shaped like a Hermco, and bolt/seal it onto the B-Bracket.
Here's the mold I made over the weekend (sorry about the fuzzing pics, my little helpers got thier little finger on the lens of my camera)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...d/IMGP1313.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...d/IMGP1315.jpg

All thoughts and opinions are welcomed.

Lloyd

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Huh? :eek:

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Input, Don, I need input.

I only have a few dollars and a couple hours invested so far, if you thinks I'm nuts, and should just leave it alone, tell me so.

Plan "A" would be bring the boat to you, trash the B-Bracket, and have you put on one of yours, but frankly, I just don't have that kind of money available.

I'm just trying to see if my plan has any merit.

Thanks

Lloyd

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Hi Sir:
My name is Mike Borrelli from Metan Marine and I'm here in Don's office. I'v looked at your photos and I have to concure with him "Huh"

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Wow Mike, you and Don have some profound advice for Capt Lloyd :D. Come on, step up and tell him the deal............ ;)

Re: Bracket Modification
 

I have a couple of questions. How did you determine the bracket mounting heighth? The transom angle on the 23' should be 13 deg. so a 14 deg. bracket is not a problem just asthetic and will actually give you more negative trim. I don't see how water on the motor would be a problem, they are made to get wet and judging from the pics the bracket and motor look high to me. Do you have any problems with prop slippage or cavitation? :D

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Don,

Thank you for the come back. :)

My boat is a 20', I understand that 20's have a 14* transom angle, and I measured it at 14*. I don't think the bracket is 14* as I ordered it, I think it more like 10 or 12.

Bruce from B-Bracket told me to mount it with the top of the swimplatform 25" above the keel for a 25" shaft motor. When I set it up on the boat, that looked way too high to me, the swimplatform was going to be 6"-7" above the waterline, so I lowered it a little over an inch. The guys at the outboard shop thought that it was mounted too low, so they mounted the motor as high as it would go.

No, I do not have any problems with cavitation or slippage, even in tight turns. The motor trims out good, and if anything, I feels as if the motor could go up another inch or two. My cavitation plate is 2.5" above the keel at 0% trim, and the water flow is about 1.5" above the cavitation plate on plane.

It really was disturbing how much water was flowing up around the motor on take off, and in certain conditions when I wanted to run just off plane. I want the "tub" to give some lift at take off, and some floatation at rest.

I considered doing it in aluminum, but I don't think that would be as cost effective.

Thanks,

Lloyd

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Thats why bracket looks high it's a 20'! Ok. The 20' transom angle is 14 deg. If the bracket is a 30" setback and you had mounted as suggested it would probably have allowed you to mount the motor another inch higher with out any slippage. The water and floatation issues are to be expected with an aluminum bracket that has a minimal floatation design. The water flowing around the motor would not bother me, but if you want more floatation you need a bigger body on the bracket that will provide additional displacement and will also give some lift during plane like mine. Your Idea of making a fiberglass bucket would be fine if you had a fiberglass bracket so you could glass it to the existing.I don't know how you seal your fiberglass part to the aluminum and not have leaks. You do not want the thing full of water. Have you thought about leaving it open at the back so it could drain when getting up on a plane? If it was me I would pull the motor and bracket. Sell bracket and get a replacement aluminum wide body floatation bracket. Aluminum beacuse it will probably be the cheapest. The new bracket will cover the existing holes so you plug them with dowels and epoxy. No paint or finish work required. Mount new bracket and motor and you are done. Armstrong single wide body bracket with 72" wide platform lists for about $2200.00. Or try to get the guy that made his own out of fiberglass (Strick?) to make you one and offer to buy him beer. Or Build your own out of fiberglass and buy yourself beer. Or get a welder to add on to existing and see if he will work for beer!

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Lloyd,

I'm interested to see what you decide to do. Keep us informed.

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Looks like your scuppers would be covered if you use that mold design. In that case you would want the back of the tub to be open. As long as water doesn't get anywhere near the cowl intake, your alright.

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Jimmy said that?

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Don has it......work for beer.... :cool:

Re: Bracket Modification
 

We are all working for beer. ;)

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Thanks Don, I guess I owe you a beer :D :D

I was thinking if can keep the toleraces tight, and use ample amounts of 5200, it will be sealed. Of course it will have a drain. The B-Bracket is built with the front of the bucket open and is sealed against the transom with polyseam seal. In 5 years, I have had no leak issues.

I appeciate all of your suggestions, spending thousands on this project is just not an option right now. Like I said before, if I was going to spend that kind of money, I would buy a bracket from you! :D

For a few hundred dollars worth of fiberglass supplies, I'm leaning towards giving this a try.

As for the scuppers, I was planning to redo the stern boxes and move the scuppers outboard anyway, but that's another project. I will probably open the deck drains that I plugged temporily so the boat can still be self bailing until I get to the stern box project.

Lloyd

Re: Bracket Modification
 

I am not a beer drinker myself but thanks for the offer. I am aware of how the B bracket is constructed and the fact that it is open on the transom mounting face. Most aluminum brackets are. I am not trying to sell you one of my brackets only giving you suggestions. Your idea is intriguing. Necessity is the mother of invention! :D

Re: Bracket Modification
 

If 6 Was 9

Re: Bracket Modification
 

J.H.

True. ;)

Re: Bracket Modification
 

This thread is a prime example of the value of being a member of CSC(free advice without the big sell on Hermco's superior product.) That's some serious SeaCraft / Boat Restoration experience between those 2 gurus - Don and Mike. Without the brown nose, is Hermco / Metan going to join forces??? I'd go with either Hermtan or Metanco. :D :D ;)

Re: Bracket Modification
 

That's just a crime!

Re: Bracket Modification
 

I like Mike! We have totally different backgrounds and ideas but I believe he is true to his craft. I would not hesitate to recommend his services. Good craftsmen are a dying breed. :D

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Sorry only vodka! I drank my share of beer when I was young, but never restored any boats during that time. :D

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Arrrr, Vodka & Resin on the Rocks with a twist of Scupper Rubber :cool:

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Before swapping brackets . . . I'd try putting some weight in the bow, wedges, and a stern-lifting prop. It's a $200 fix . . . vs. a lot of time and money to swap a bracket.

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Nice. :D True to form chucky. :D

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Big,

I already have 150 lbs of lead in the forward campartment to counter the effect of the non-floatation bracket (it's like I always have someone sitting up on the bow).

And yeah, I don't have the time/resources to get into pulling the bracket and starting from scratch. So I figure for a few hundred bucks, and a few hours here and there over several weeks (due to my job, I'm only home a few days a week) I can build this bucket/tub and see if I can attach to the existing bracket so that it's sealed.

If I can't get it to seal, I'll open the back as Don suggested, I'll not have the floatation and have to keep the lead. Worst case, I give it a try and I don't like it or don't feel confident with it, I'll take it off and patch the holes.

BTW, I'm running a Powertech SS 3 blade 13X18 prop on my Suzuki 140hp 4-stroke. What prop would you suggest as a good stern lifting prop for my motor?

Thanks

Lloyd

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Capt.-

I respect what you are doing 110% but instead of patching it today, assuming you can still live with the way it is today, put some $$ aside over the next few months and do it properly tomorrow.

Throwing good $ at an odd fix may not be the best solution. Do it right and be done with it for good.

Re: Bracket Modification
 

You could also put a bilge pump inside it. I have done using a 500 gph Rule computerized pump. :D

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Just watched on MSNBC that a couple with two children will be getting a $100.00 tax rebate! Talk about an economic stimulus! If that happens for the next 20 years the Capt. will have a new bracket! ;)

Re: Bracket Modification
 

Thanks for all of the advice, I'll mull it over and keep you posted on what I do.

To be honest, the real reason I don't want to spend thousands on this boat is that in a few years, I'll be in position to spend the money, and do it right...on a 23':D :D

Lloyd

Bracket Modification...Leave It
 

I agree with Trayder. If it has worked fine this long, leave it. Save the dollars, and get what you really want.

If you are so inspired, to work come on over to my place and start grinding on the "21". ;)

Re: Bracket Modification...Leave It
 

Terry,

Thanks for the offer, if I'm ever on your side of FL, I would be honored to rub on your 21', that's quite a gem you have there :)

Lloyd

Re: Bracket Modification...Leave It
 

I would weld the box you want onto the bracket you have and make it one piece and water tight. Just my .02

Re: Bracket Modification...Update
 

Well, I built it, and took it for a test ride, and I'm very happy with how it worked.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...d/IMGP1412.jpg

The boat sits at least an inch higher at the stern, the scuppers(which I moved outboard) are completely out of the water.

The boat jumps on plane with very little bow rise, and the motor is not getting the fire hose treatment as before. On plane, the bucket is about 2 inches out of the water, and there seems to be no effect to how the boat takes tight turns.

The bucket is constructed of 2 layers of heavy mat, and a layer of heavy biaxial cloth I found at Boathouse. Corners and attachment edges are beefed up. I used about 3 gallons of polyester resin. The nominal thickness is about 5/16", it seems very strong, and weighs 37 lbs. The cost for materials and supplies was just over $400.

The cosmetics are not perfect, but I did some fairing and used high build primer to smooth it out. I rolled on Interlux Brightside Polyurethane paint, there are many runs, which I'll deal with later.

Now that I know it works, I'll permanently attach it with 5200 and 12 3/8" thru-bolts. I cut two 5" inpection hatches on the swimplatform to access the inside of the bucket. Also, I'm adding Rabuds to the scuppers drains I moved outboard on the transom. Next, I'll remove the lead I have in the forward hatch which I have been using for ballast.


It will be available for inspection at Long Point.

Lloyd

Re: Bracket Modification...Update
 

I will be there and I will bring my magnifying glass :D :D

Re: Bracket Modification...Update
 

Looks good and works......what else can you ask for... :cool:

Re: Bracket Modification...Update
 

Nice work Capt...you may be on to something new here :D

strick

Re: Bracket Modification...Update
 

Nice work Capt! Do they still surf the second light? Please bring some dip nets.
For the runs you can drag them down w/ a single edge razor blade and buff em out.
GFS

Re: Bracket Modification...Update
 

Lloyd, you are just like me....
Screw the critics, do what you think is right!!!!!!!
Make sure you and doodlebug & tarpun anchor with the
rest of the bad azz yellow boats in front of site 77 :cool:
see you there, Ken

Re: Bracket Modification...Update
 

Thanks for the comments, but let's remember this is a "fix".

I strongly encourage anyone considering a bracket to go with a style that has maximun floataion, and some planing surface, like a Hermco.

This site is about exchanging idea and information. I'm just sharing what it did. I don't suggest my "fix" for everybody with a non-floatation bracket, but as a example why anyone considering a bracket can hopefully understand the advantages to getting the properly designed floatation bracket that works best with the Seacraft hull.

Terry, don't look too close. :o

Bayouboy, I could ask for somebody else to do the 5200 job

Strick, you have inspired many of us, Thanks for the comeback ;)

Ken, us "FLY" boat can always hang together :cool:

GFS, sorry, I don't have any dip nets :(

Lloyd

Re: Bracket Modification...Update
 

Pretty sweet looking fix Capt. Very creative and aesthetically pleasing. Frank Zappa? Maybe not... Mother of invention? Definitely. It sure looks like your planing issues are headed for the archives. Way to take the bull by the horns. You've inspired me to save a few grand... Or was that my wife telling me to go paint the house... :D - McGill