Washdown pump & scupper help
 

A couple of questions, for anyone with a washdown on a 23 with floor scuppers.
I have a Shurflo wash down that I'd like to install on my Tsunami,and would appreciate any advice,as to where i should install the pump and seacock.
My thoughts are either in the bilge area in front of the engine (it's a 350 I/O),or amidships forward of the fuel tank.

It's only a 52 gallon tank,so i have plenty of room forward,of the tank compartment.The hull bottom forward of the tank, is accessible,as i cut out the rotted bottom of the compartment that runs front to the cuddy.
I plan on leaving it accessible by having the bottom floor of that forward storage hatch removable.

Also wondering if the water will drain out the floor scuppers easily when trolling,or are they as much of a nuisance,as i hear about.

I'm thinking about maybe putting in some through the transom scuppers,while i have the back panel off,making the transom accessible.
I was thinking of going horizontally with a thru hull fitting just above the thru deck scupper,and out to the transom to a pair of rabud ping pong ball scuppers.
The problem,may be that i won't be able to have them above the waterline,it looks very close,and i can't really tell where the waterline will actually end up.

Here's a few pictures showing the engine compartment.and forward hatch areas where i could put the pump,and the last picture, is where i could run the new scuppers out to the transom.
I have the back cap and rear panel off so now would be the time to do it.

Any thoughts,or comments would be appreciated.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_1473.jpg
Engine compartment,& inside of transom with top cap and inner panel removed


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/...IMG_1472-1.jpg
Engine compartment.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_1477.jpg
Compartment forward of fuel tank,shown with the floor out


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_1475.jpg
Same compartment,with the floor in,and looking towards the stern.



http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_1479.jpg
This is where i was thinking of putting in new horizontal scuppers.

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

John,
First and foremost, excellent install! Very well done! O.K., there's your pat on the back. The key to installing a washdown system is accessibility to both the pump and the intake. If your engine box allows you freedom of movement both fore and aft of the motor, then install your pickup forward of the motor, and mount your pump to the transom, and plumb from there. As far as your cockpit scuppers, yes, those recesses you show in that one pic are designed for that. The key here will be, as you stated, the waterline.

If you would like, I can set you up with a complete washdown system for dirt cheap, starting with the latest Shur-flo Pro-Blaster pump and all the fittings, hoses, t/hull, and whatever else.

But I will tell you, great engine install! Bravo 1 or 3?

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Seabob,
Thanks for the kind words and help with my questions.The install actually looks better in person, than it does in the Pictures.I had the camera at the wrong setting.

Well,i wish it was a Bravo 1 or 3,but i had to settle for an alpha,the budget was getting a bit thin,and i got a chance to pick up the engine and Drive from a friend for cheap.Both are in extremely great shape with only 400 hrs on them.I figure it leaves me some money to spend on the radar for the new tower i just got.

I tend to be a bit fussy with the wiring,and mechanicals,but now, going on a year and a half,with all new transom and rotted core replacements,i just want to get this thing in the water.

Thanks for the offer on the pump,but guess what my early fathers day gift was,a nice new shurflo washdown system.
Again,Thanks for the help, and pat on the back,it's appreciated.

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

John,
No problem. Happy Fathers Day! The reason I thought you might have a Bravo drive on there was seeing that Edelbrock sticker on the carb. I figured you might have upped the horsepower to 350 MAG levels (300HP), so you might have wanted to swing a bigger prop. But an inexpensive Alpha will do just fine. In case you ever want to go the Bravo route, Doug Russell Marine up in Mass. usually has some pretty good prices on quality rebuilds.

Have a great rest of the weekend!

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Based on your pictures, I would have concerns installing a seacock in the engine compartment or the forward deck hold.

1.)Both of those areas require opening and removal steps to quickly close the seacock if necessary. If the forward hold had contents the degree of difficulty increases. Wiring & hose connections appear to be limited.
2.)The normal washdown pickup needs to be as far aft as possible thus giving you full flow of water either at rest or underway.
3.) You need to have the pump and the intake in close proximaty to maintain water pressure.
4.)Also the pump needs to be mounted close to the intake (pump head down if possible) avoiding possible air locks.

Therefore, I would mount the pump to the transom just above your engine vent tubes either port or Stbd side. Install the seacock & water pickup below the pump ensuring you have a access panel/hatch at the transon for quick access to the seacock, repair and replacing the pump or connections & wash down hose storage. I will give you a couple of pics as sugestions ;)

Water Intake installed aft inside the stringer away from trailer skids:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...k/DSCN0023.jpg

Easy access to the Seacock thru a transom panel:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...k/DSCN0022.jpg

Washdown pump is mounted to the inside transom with pump head close to seacock. Both the washdown & baitwell pumps utilize the same seacock.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...k/DSCN0021.jpg

The washdown hose has a fast connect / disconnect port

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...k/DSCN0020.jpg


BTW: I like the idea of Cris-Crossing the scupper lines avoiding the wet feet issues.

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

WTF? Is the recession hitting you so bad you have to shoot pics in black and white? :D

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Camera made by Obama :eek:

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

I heard the McSame joke yesterday. :D

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Capt.Chuck, Thanks for the info and pics.
For some strange reason,the first place my eyes went,was to your avatar,damm,I'm glad that picture's in color.
President Obama? "god forbid"

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

This is where I installed my raw water and washdown/livewell thru hulls ( aft is washdown ).

The ParMax 4 pump installed later is mounted to the transom and easily accessable. The quick-attach hose attachment is mounted on the 'aft wall', further from the stern cleat then someone else's picture to avoid any tangles with coiled hose I use. I also mounted an exterior, water-proof on/off switch for the washdown power.

A few years later, I added a Shurflo 800 livewell pump directly to the thru hull livewell valve and that also feeds raw water to the ParMax4 washdown. All works great ! The power to that is run to the helm.

Also, I like where my blower is - see top left in pix. It's out of the way.

Note: I converted my Tsunmai from a twin I/O to a single, so I purposely left extra room when I closed up the floor.

I smiled when I saw your pix 'cause I been there done that :). Just remember the beer !

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49...1/DSC00783.jpg

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

abl1111
Great pics,& nice job on that conversion.Thanks,it's a big help to me.
Boy,I wish i had that much room now, to easily get to stuff.How much smaller did you make the opening in the floor,from the original?,very nice job.

Can i ask how much of a pain in the a-s the thru the floor scuppers are?
I read in your post that you are'nt happy with them,and how you'd like to change.
How much water actually comes in when two guys are in the corner,and does it drain out when you move up front? Any idea of where your waterline on the transom is?

Thanks again.sorry for all the questions,I think I'm suffering from OCD with this scupper thing.

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Scuppers: It's not horrible. How heavy are you ? Kidding. I use the time tested and very simple Vortex design to keep the water at Bay ( pun intended ). I made the version w/ the PVC and a finger from a rubber glove. And believe me, the type of material and the length of the "finger" of the rubber glove makes a difference ! The Vortex works perfectly. I leave it in all the time. In the Fall, I wear fishing boots anyway.

If you're re-doing the floor, you'd be foolish not to raise it and go out the transom. I have never heard of anyone with GREAT success converting from the thru floor to thru transom with the stock floor ( I put that subject out there awhile ago and the responses were luke warm ).

If there was a great system for that, I'd consider it. I think the only way to do it is with Rabuds or similar. I keep my boat in the water for 7-8 months a season. I've heard the Rabuds get clogged easily and you're back at square one. Someone, pls correct me if I'm wrong...

And, I think the floor scuppers are waaay to small for taking and draining a wave. I don't get out into the snot too often, but it's what you're not expecting that you need to be prepared for - and on that note, I think the stock scuppers are under engineered.

For now, I await a better mouse trap...

As for the size I left in my floor, I don't remember. But, compared to how much room was used up by the twin i/o's, I have a lot of room. When you do the type of insane preparing, thinking and researching then sanding, grinding and glassing that is necessary to resto a boat - you damn well should make her what you want. You deserve it ! I over-thought every aspect of my project ( I never did anything like it ). I followed the advice of many of the salty guys on the site, and leaned heavily on a fiberglass buddy of mine to help in parts of the project that were way beyond me.

In the end, I truly have the exact boat I always wanted. My engine compartment is very clean and functional, with the idea of being able to get in, gain access and do what needs to be done when the time comes ( and that time ALWAYS COMES ! ). The scupper thing was a trade off. My floor is solid and ripping it out was not an option.

Water line - transom ? I can send a picture, I think - you want that ? Or, I can measure from the "V" in the hull, up.

One thing I would think, if you're a fisherman: the storage in the floor, between the helm and pass seats - I want to make that a fish box but do not want the slime water to go into my bilge. I was thinking of plumbing it directly to a macerator pump or similar to pump the gook overboard at the end of the day. Easier to plan out now at the stage you're in as opposed to where I am.

And, I need a cuddy/deck ladder as the plastic, stock one I had took a sh*t ! Great design, poor manufacturing ( it was over 30 yrs old ! ) I tried with a few guys on the site to get them made up - too cost prohibitive.

Anyway, keep up the great work. A little at a time...

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Many thanks abl,
I already told my buddy who fishes with me,that we have to lose 100 lb's,to offset the weight of the kicker motor.

Thanks for the offer of the waterline picture,but after your reply,and talking to a few other guys,Iv'e decided to stay with the deck scuppers.
My deck floor was also in good shape,with only a small area of rotted core,where the helm seats were,so raising the deck is not in my plans.
At this point,I'm all glassed out,I did a couple of complete restorations before (alum.& wood),and swore that i would never do another,but then this Seacraft,that i had been trying to get for more than four years,became available.

I really under estimated how long it would take to do this,but in a way it's good as i've been able to pay for everything as i go.
We're going to use that front compartment,between the seats for rod storage.Normally we have about 25 rod and reel setups on board,so space is a premium.The tower i bought has six rocket launchers on it,and the down riggers will hold four more.
The rest will be in that compartment,and swapped the the ones on deck when needed.
We plan on using my 120 qt cooler behind the helm seat for our fish.
We srictly fish Salmon,average weight of 15-25 pounds,so it works pretty well for us.Our fishing is all trolling with down riggers,so we never(well,almost never) have to go foward to land a fish.

I also plan on using the vortex gadjet in the scuppers.This project has just been,and still is an incredible amount of work as you and most others on this site know.My thanks to everyone,for everything i learned from you.

Having this boat,makes me feel like i did when i was a kid and into hot rods.As i got older i found myself wishing i still had one of my old classic cars.
Well,now i feel the same way about this boat,I know it sounds corny, but i still can't beleive i have it.
This is one classic that i will never get rid of.

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Amen brother !

As for using that floor storage - it does get wet in there so keep that in mind. I would like to keep it water tight if I could - so if that is a plan of yours, let me know how you plan to do it...

Good luck with it all.

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

abl1111,
2 things - Did you get my email w/ the galvanic corrosion stuff? and do you have any pics of this vortex/glove tip thing for the scuppers? Not sure I get that. -- McGill

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Mc,

Yes I got it thank you very much for getting it to me. I have not even had a chance to print them - I'll check it out tonight. I'll try and grab a picture of it. One of the guys on the site came up with the idea - it's simple/brilliant.

In the nutshell: take a pc of PVC that can slide inside the floor scupper. Cut the PVC so it is 2" or so shorter than the length of the scupper tube. Put some electrical tape around the outside of the top of PVC tube. Push the PVC tube down into the scupper drain so the top of the PVC tube is just above the scupper drain tube. The tape should make it fit snugly within the scupper tube.

So far - you have a tube that snugly fits inside a tube. Remove the PVC tube. Take a cheap paint glove - the flimsy, rubber throw-aways ones. Cut the longest finger off where it meets the hand of the glove. Now, cut the finger tip off. Now you have a rubber tube. Place one end of the glove finger over the end of the PVC tube, slide it on 3/4" ( think condom - sorry for the graphic there! ). Tape it in place with electrical tape. Now slide the PVC with the rubber finger into the scupper w/ the rubber finger part extended and into the scupper hole first. The PVC should fit snug in the scupper 'cause you put tape on it initially to give it that snug fit.

That's it. Water will flow out of this contraption. But, when sea water wants to come back in from weight or whatever, the rubber finger squishes closed allowing no water to come in. It works awesome. It probably should have been called the Sphincter, but Vortex sounds way cooler ! Anyway, one of the guys figured this out and it is very effective. The only drawbacks: it reduces the size of an already small scupper. It could get clogged and trap water in ( this has never happened to me ), but I do remove it after each trip. I keep 'em in the teak rod holders so I can put them in when I cast off.

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Hey abl1111,

That is one very ingenious idea! Kudo's to the one who came up with that. Even if it should somehow be lodged open, it will still slow down how much water comes in.

Neat idea!

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

abl,
I'm not quite sure how I'm going to seal the hatch lid yet,but I'll work something out.
Currently i fish out of my 22'Trophy hardtop.It's an actual hardtop with a full roof and glass windows.
I'm so used to the hardtop,I love it in the sun,the rain and the cold.I'll never fish an open boat again.

"I'm not man enough for a center console" LOL

I thought about a hardtop,on the Seacraft,but have decided on a soft top,which will never be down,except for the side curtains.This will help with to at least keep rainwater from most of the hatch area.I run my eighteen foot starcraft like this,and it keeps it pretty dry
Also the rods will be elevated off the bottom on holders.

I'm a great lakes fisherman which is worlds apart from saltwater fishing.It's strictly trolling with downriggers,no jigging no casting,no need to have to walk around a deck,with a rod.The fight, is all from the stern area,and we try(at least)to net all the fish, directly off the back.

Occasionally, we'll take waves over the bow,so i suppose Ill get some water in,unless the windshield is completely water tight( i doubt it)

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

I believe you all have reinvented what is called a "Joker" valve, some call it a "duckbill" valve. Sealand's Sani-Pump uses this on the discharge side. But I think the rubber glove is a lot cheaper...

Re: Washdown pump & scupper help
 

Run a nice thick bead of silicone on the bottom of the hatch. Let it skin over, over the top of the hatch. Raise and let cure. This will give you a gasket that will help keep water out of this hatch. Pretty inexpensive and can be removed with a razor blade if you are not happy.