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took her under the knife (need some opinions)
As I said in my other post, I was suspicious of my transom after drilling a thru-hull and what looked life coffee came out, so took advantage of the long weekend to do some investigating.
Took off the engine and put it on a stand. The engine bolts came out with a nice wet brownness all over them, and some probing around the holes showed even more that at least that area was soaked. Took some hardware off in other places (ladder mounts, kicker engine mount, etc) and the same showed there. Spent friday night taking off the old hardware on the back, pulling back the rub rails, getting her ready to go under the knife. Spent saturday morning fishing for king mackerel (which neither him nor mr cobia showed their face :( ), and then sat night at a DC United game with some friends (tied 0-0). http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCraft/dcunited.jpg Came back sunday eager to work on her again and taped out my line and got to cutting. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-001.JPG After lots (and I mean LOTS) of chiseling, and prying, and using a floor jack to apply pressure, the "welds" finally popped and the back end came off. (My dad in the picture, he and my brother in law lended a helping hand in all of this. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-002.JPG When we pulled off the cut section this happened to fall off, and even though its a dead nest we got a visit from two very upset wasps that didnt like us cutting up their new home, after they were dispatched we went back to work. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-007.JPG Then it was time to get to work cutting off and peeling back the inner transom skin. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-003.JPG After cutting and peeling/prying off the inner skin (the outer skin was ironically completely delaminated, had I done this from the outside it would just have been a matter of cutting) the skin was removed to reveal an entire transom of this: http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-004.JPG Not one part of the transom was remotely dry, and everything but the bottom inch or two on the starboard side was completely rotted and just fell off (which made it pretty easy to remove). http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-006.JPG After some hours and some liquid encouragement, http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-005.JPG my transom started to get clean (its completely clean and ground down now just havent taken a picture yet). http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-006.JPG My brother-in-law got bored I guess and decided to connect with his inner artist ala SeaCraft. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-008.JPG I have yet to weigh it, which I guess it might be wasted now since it probably dried out some being out of the transom, but filled up an entire transom of rotted wood chunks. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-010.JPG Now my plan was to do what you guys suggested and raise the transom 5", but my parents are extremely generous with their money, and unlike my sister's I've never asked them for a dime so after watching me search for a replacement lower unit (needed a 76-77 200hp lower unit for my old engine that neither I nor my local dealer could locate) for a month +, they decided to bless me with... http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-01-08-011.JPG A new 2008 Suzuki 175hp 4 Stroke 20" shaft (they went with a 20" because they, nor I, knew the transom was bad so the plan was just to swap the engines out). Which I know you guys are gonna say thats in the upper end of power for this boat, but if you dont look one gift horse in the mouth, you sure as hell don't do it to 175 gift horses ;). I also tried calling up the outboard shop they bought it from (they didnt go with our local dealer because a larger one about two hours away beat their price by $3700, which upset my local guy a bit but he admitted he would have done the same in my place and would gladly install it for me) and tried to see if I could trade it out for a 25", who gave me the run around and then said that they could but they only had 2009 25" now so it would be $1300 more (two days before they had 25" 2008's... :mad: I guess thats what happens when you go for the larger cheaper less friendly operation though), which I don't have $1300 more to throw around (this transom rebuild is stretchin me now haha), and I'm sure as heck not asking my parents for anything right after they gave me this, so I'm building the transom back to 20", with some modifications. I'm going to close my transom notch to the smallest I can with the new engine and still be able to turn fully. I'm also going to build a splashWALL around the splashwell, essentially making the two hatches on either side seats and not allowing a wave to come over the stern into the boat, but rather just hit the wall and then drain out. My dad's 28' Master Marine CC has something similar. I've cad'd up a little diagram to help show what I'm talking about. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCraft/splashwall.jpg Just built into the lip around where the splashwell is now, and along the sides of those hatches (but still giving them clearance to open) glass in a wall. I think I've seen another boat on here (maybe a 23') that did something similar, but cant seem to find it now. Most of my fishing in this boat will be in the inlets/chesapeake bay, maybe off the beach in the oceanfront on nice days (we have my dad's boat for offshore), so I'm not really concerned terribly about a wave coming over the back, but I think this idea will help keep me safer/dryer if that happens. So I would like some feedback, hows my destruction of the old transom lookin? I studied and studied the threads on here before starting and I cant even begin to say how greatful I am that this site and you guys exists. I'm gonna try and go back with Coosa vs plywood because of the weight I'm adding to the back of the boat with the heavier engine (~100lbs more than the 200hp Johnson that was on it), just the sticker shock is getting to me. I've also moved both batteries up to under the front console seat to help adjust the weight, anything else I can do to help with offset the heavier engine, is this gonna be a huge problem? Also when I cut the center stringer back to allow me to remove the old inner skin, I just so happen to sniff the wood block I cut out, and it smelled very strongly of gasoline. The previous owner said he replaced the tank (and did a botchy job on the outside at least, including rather than routing to the existing filling port, cut a whole in the hatch under the console and adding a port there), I'm not sure why he replaced the tank (possibly because the old one was leaking) but I feel that now I must rip up the t-top/console and investigate the situation, do you guys agree? Would a stringer still smell of gasoline from leaky tank replaced a year+ ago? As far as the rebuild, my list (tentative you guy's approval) goes:
How does that sound? Vinylester is ok to use for all of this yes? Also would it be wise to close up the thru-hull scupper holes and go ahead and change to thru-transom scuppers w/ the ping pong balls since I'm adding the extra weight and possibly screwing up the self bailingness of the boat? Thanks for looking and any advice/encouragement you have to offer, it took working up some courage to take a saw to her, you guys who have done it before me are brave souls indeed. |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Good idea to build raised splashwell since you're staying with 20" transom and your drawings are a good start. Potter came up with a bolt-in full height splash well "wall" on the later 20's. If you search thru the literature section for the late '70's models, you might be able to find a picture of it to get some ideas. That cutout sure is wide, maybe for twins? Again, search the literature for pictures on early models, which had a much narrower cutout. You should be able to find an installation drawing on Zuke website to get an idea of how narrow cutout can be and how much clearance you'll need to tilt motor all the way up. Might need a fold down door in front of it like was used on the 23 to accommodate full tilt.
It's a LOT less work to repair transom from outside - just use a cutoff wheel about 2-3" from outside edge all around to remove outer skin. I'd go with the Coosa to save weight, as you're gonna be stern heavy. Search Carla's posts (65Bowrider)for details of installing the Coosa transom in their 21' - we had lots of good advice from a friend that's a professional fiberglass repairman. His advice was to use epoxy because of it's superior bond strength; the extra cost is a nit compared to the labor you'll be putting into this thing!! Moving batteries to console is a good idea, as is moving scuppers to transom. The fuel smell sounds suspicious! SeaCraft never foamed in their tanks, which is why there are bilge vents. I'd check that tank to make sure it wasn't foamed in, which is a bad idea unless tank was coated with coal tar epoxy. Previous tank could have been foamed in, corroded, leaked into foam, and they didn't remove the foam when they replaced the tank! :eek: Check out Dave Pasco's article on fuel tank installation - it's a real eye opener! Fuel tank installation. Good luck with your restoration! That'll be a nice rig when it's done! |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
The sharing of info on the site is invaluable.
1. What is the weight of the new Zuke? 2. Do you have a shameless friend? 3. Are you up for a slightly covert op? I think weight is an issue you want to think about. Lots of folks here love the 140 4s Zuke. I have a `96 rude 150 @ 365 #s. 900 hrs. Power is not an issue...weight is. I took water thru the transom scuppers by myself w/ a light load, while being sent to the corner. Why not send a friend into your dealer and inquire about a 140? Your parents will be happy you looked into the future and made a good decision after "careful deliberation" GFS |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
I have a splashwall for my 20' (not installed, takes up too much room) I'll try and take some pics of it and post for you.
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Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Thanks for the reply's all :) Info like this is exactly what I was hoping for.
bushwacker - Thanks for the tip on 65bowrider, been reading over this thread, good stuff. Trying to find a locale distributor of coosa, closest I've found so far is 5 hours away and $495 for a 1.5" sheet :eek: Just emailed Coosa, hopefully I can get a distributor list or something. I see that you helped him out with his transom, do you know what kind of Coosa it was (bluewater 26 or 20), wondering if 20 is strong enough for the job (15% lighter than 26). Also that fuel tank info was great! :D gfs - the 175 is 474lbs vs 420lbs for the 140, 54lb difference for the power. I think I'm sticking with the 175, the dealer is 2.5 hours away, so its not just a matter of walking in to chat. I've moved the batteries forward, I can move my fuel tank forward a bit (more on that later in this post), maybe keep a couple gallons of water in the anchor locker up front if need be to help balance. countshock - that would be awesome if you could. much appreciated. I looked around the literature but couldnt seem to find what bushwacker was talking about, I'll keep looking though. A pic would definitely help. I popped up the console and investigated the tank situation and boy am I glad I did. Opened the hatch up and found the tank turned a little cockeye'd in there. Turns out the previous owner installed a new tank, plumbed it, but decided that he didnt need to secure it in any way, it was just sitting on the floor of the built in coffin. The only thing keeping it in place were the hoses. I cant imagine what would of happened if I had filled that up on good faith from him and tried to run with that thing pounding around inside there. No sign of any kind of leak, pretty clean in there too, tank in good condition, think I should get it pressure tested. Also, reading Dave Pasco's article he suggests building a frame for it to sit on. I was looking at what Strick did and his framed in pieces of wood were glassed to the stringers and resting on the center stringer. My coffin is completely flat, would I still need to build up some support on the bottom to keep it from being in direct contact with water and allow air to flow under it? I'll post some pics of what it looks like in there. Thanks guys! Dirty SeaCraft :( http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-03-08-002.JPG http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-03-08-003.JPG http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-03-08-004.JPG http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-03-08-005.JPG |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Things I'm currently doing to mine to counteract the extra weight in the transom:
-Batts under console. -Fuel tank forward. Pushing it all the way up to the bulkhead. -Oil tank under console (guess that doesn't concern you, though) -Console forward 4-6 inches. |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Try Eastern Burlap in Norfolk, they send materails all over and have almost anything you need.
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Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
I found a local supply for Coosa except they only carry Bluewater 26 and in 1/2" 3/4" and 1" sheets. Would there be any advantage of 1" + 1/2" over (2) 3/4" sheets, (2) 3/4" sheets is ~$30 less than 1" + 1/2" but if I dont mind going either way if its better. Also gluing the pieces together, layer of glass inbetween (mat? biaxial?), or just thickened epoxy (Thickened with cabosil?), I've seen both on here?
So my procedures (make sure I'm not leaving anything out).
I miss anything? :D |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Quote:
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Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Just the next 50 yrs. :cool:
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Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
I used Pensky Board when I re-did my transom and one thing I learned is that it's thicker that ply because it's made in metric dimensions. Not sure if Coosa is that same, but I remember thinking at the time that that would be a major PITA if someone used Pensky board doing a transom from the inside and then couldn't fit the old glass piece back in place.
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Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
I've been admiring your project here. I've got a '20 Mako I'm finally riging after a loooong rebuild. Some of the issues you talk about I've dealt with as well. For instance, the weight transfer....moving two batteries under the console at 50# - 70# each, depending on the type, seems like it would easily make up for the new 'zuke. I moved mine forward as well. I went with the Trollfury setup. Both batteries and box are 134#. The thing to remember is now the run of the battery cables are 5x's longer than before.....
You need to upsize the wire (diameter) to account for the voltage drop and heat. As for the transom issue, I just helped a buddy do his on a Grady, I suggest using a piece of luan door skin to cut a template before you cut the expensive stuff! (lesson learned the hard way by many!) just my .02.. Look forward to seeing more pics. |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Skip said he used the 26# Coosa, which he got from Don Herman. If Don uses it, that's what I'd use! It's still lighter than plywood! I'd use 2 3/4" pieces as that should be closest to the plywood dimensions; test fit each piece before you stick 'em together.
One thing you have backwards is the way you lap the forward layers of glass into the hull. The first piece that lays up against the Coosa should be the longest, then each successive layer should be a little shorter. If you go from short to long, you're putting a kink/step in the longer layer where it goes over the shorter layer; this creates a stress concentration! Nature doesn't like kinks! May be a nit, but the devil lives in these sort of details, which separate the amateurs from professionals. |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Dang Denny, you've got amazing powers of observation... thanks again for another subtle, invaluable tip...Here's a picture of the bolt on splashwell Bushwacker spoke of on an early response to this thread, this is from a 77 Seafari 20. Hopefully it's enough to get the jist...
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...seafari005.jpg |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
bushwacker - Yup going with (2) 3/4" of Bluewater 26, glad to hear he used the same. Thanks for catching that, I can see now that it could create a stress point. So the last layer be just slightly larger than the transom with consecutively larger layers under that, 4 layers sound sufficient or should I beef it up and go with 5? Should there be any kind of mat or something between the layers or just need 1708?
McGillicuddy - Thanks for the picture! Something like that is exactly what I'm looking to do, good to know my brain is at least on the right track. Buying the materials in the next day or two, should be getting to work on it later this week. Pictures to come. |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Quote:
A layer of 1708 on the old transom skin (rough it up first) is probably a good idea to insure good bond between the original polyester and the new epoxy. Be sure to wash off the amine blush from any cured epoxy before putting anything over it. Most folks seem to use put a layer of glass/1708 between plies in the transom, but I'd check the Coosa and/or West System web sites to see what they recommend. The Coosa Skip used was about 2" thick so only used 1 piece. When you apply the cabosil before installing core, use a tile trowel to create a series of v-shaped grooves which will allow the paste to spreadout and hopefully achieve uniform thickness. It's also good to install some randomly placed (to avoid a tear-along-the-dotted-line scenario) ~1/4" "vent" holes to allow any trapped air to escape between core and transom skin. Good Luck! Denny |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
After shopping around for supplies (and actually setting up an account with a local company that only deals with boat builders, businesses, etc, moms educational consulting firm now has an "client entertainment ala SeaCraft" department ;), but saved a ton of money now and later, I'll never buy anything from West Marine or Boaters World again) and then waiting out a hurricane (hanna) and other random obligations, I finally got to work on my 20SF again.
While I was at work all day my dad was nice enough to do some prep work and lay down the layer of 1708 on the outer skin to thicken it up/prepare for the new core. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-17-08-003.JPG http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-17-08-005.JPG Then marked and cut out a template from the door skin, thanks for the tip grgrmouse was originally gonna go hunt down a huge refrigerator box and use cardboard but the appeal of not having to jump in a series of dumpsters was overwhelming ;). Test fit and trimmed down till a perfect fit. Just look at that beautiful VDR :cool: Hmmm what to do with this thing now? Maybe a life size CSC 74 Potter Built CSC poster for the shop wall? :D http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-17-08-006.JPG Then laid out the Coosa to get ready to cut. Really impressed with this stuff so far, extremely light and easy to cut. Extra money was worth it for the less weight alone. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-17-08-007.JPG http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-17-08-008.JPG Got both pieces cut and cleaned them up some with the grinder, only needed a few touch ups here and there. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-17-08-013.JPG Sun was going down and the bugs were coming out so called it a night. Hopefully getting them epoxied together tonight after work and installed in the next day or two after some fitting and cleaning up as necessary. Just bought a new DSLR "like" digital camera (not enough into photography to justify buying a DSLR...yet), so couldnt help but snap a few of her. I know you guys have seen a million pictures of these boats but I cant help but posting a few, its just such a beautiful boat, even with her backend tore out haha. http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-17-08-009.JPG http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-17-08-001.JPG http://hometux.homeip.net:8080/SeaCr...-17-08-011.JPG Thanks for looking all, and all the opinions and advice, great community here. Hopefully have some more complete pictures up in the next couple of days or so. Trying to get all this done and the boat to my local Suzuki guy for him to mount the engine before the 4th when I leave for New Zealand for 10 days, so the whole plane ride back I can be thinking about my usable 20SF at home waiting for me. :D |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Made some progress but didn't take any pics unfortunately, amazing the stuff you forget to do when you're working against the epoxy set timeline :(.
Friday night got the Coosa laminated together (layer of 1708 and thickened epoxy) and let that set up over night, solid as a rock in the morning. Saturday we trial fitted it and got her nice and snug and then drilled the weep holes, buttered her with with some thickened epoxy, put a generous amount of thickened epoxy along the bottom for her to rest in and set her in place. Tightened down the 2x4s used to clamp her in place and then cleaned up the ooze that was coming from the holes. Sunday I sanded down and cleaned up the messy spots where the epoxy oozed over night through the weep holes and around the bottom. Also did a lot of staring and thinking, which is what I go to from here. I've been thinking and losing sleep over what you guys said in the beginning, about going back to a 20" transom with the heavier 4s. I'm basically locked in to the 20" motor sitting in the crate in my garage though, the out of town outfit we went with for the engine has been less than helpful. I mentioned before about them trying to get another sale out of me the day after I bought it when I inquired about coming up and switching it out for a 25" (wanted me to pay the difference ($1300) for a 2009, because they were sold out of 25" 2008s where the day before when I picked up mine they had them in stock). I even inquired later about trading down to a 140 Zuke like most guys on here did and eating the difference but they would have none of it. They also promised to not submit the warranty info to Suzuki till I called and told them I hung the engine (being that I knew it would most likely sit for a month or so while I replaced the transom) so I wouldn't lose that time in warranty when its sitting in a crate, but last week I got my warranty card and a "Dealer Satisfaction Survey" in the mail from Suzuki, gonna be fun to fill that out. So what I'm 90ish percent positive I'm gonna do is leave the transom closed in, install a bracket, mount the 20" on the bracket. I've been searching this and classic mako for any post with a bracket over the past few days, and have realistically spent around 20 hours reading them over the weekend. I've seen on Hermco's site that his are made for 25" shaft only, so a Hermco is out. In fact D&D Marine is the only company that has instructions for installing for a 20" shaft motor. A guy over on Classic Mako closed in his transom and put a bracket from D&D on his 19 and reported that he was pleased with the ride and flotation, getting a waterline about 1" lower with the bracket vs directly mounted on the transom. The D&D bracket is 16.5" x 18" x 30" long. I also have found another outfit that makes a bracket very similar to the D&D one in design but is 15.5" x 15.5" x 26" long (which after talking to him he said he could fabricate one with a larger flotation chamber if I wanted). Would the 4" less offset be of more value being closer to the transom provided less of a throw to the COG, or do you guys think the 4" more inches of flotation space would be better because it offsets the weight of the engine more? I've read CaptLloyd's post on the modifications he made to his B-Bracket to get more lift and how in retrospect he would have gone with a bracket that provided more flotation to begin with, but I'm kinda locked in place with the 20" shaft. What do you guys think is the better option? Cutting the transom back to the 20" notch and risk having the water dangerously close (if not up to) to the line of the splash well because of the extra weight (and like you guys said, possibly killing the resale value because noone wants a 20" transom anymore, although right now I dont ever see myself selling her I want to keep my options open), or keeping the transom full, installing a positive flotation bracket like from D&D (or from the other guy and having him fabricate one with a wider flotation chamber for more weight offset) and possibly have the boat ride a little off from being stern heavy. I have redone with transom with Coosa saving weight, moved the batteries to under the console, pushed the fuel tank all the way forward, and could put a couple gallons of freshwater in the anchor storage up front to help offset the weight if need be, later add trim tabs, etc). It all just seems like the wisest choice to me to go with the bracket and closed transom. I'm pretty sure thats how I'm going, and hopefully get some reassurance from you guys. I know I might run into COG problems from doing this, but which is worse, working out COG issues, or having my boat/engine dangerously close to the waterline with a 20" transom and still probably have COG issues to work out? Thanks for any input guys. |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
They make shaft extension kits for Yamaha,Merc,OMC,Evinrude,Johnson. I don't know about Suzuki.
:D |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
yeah I've done some searching for that and all I found were extension kits for the ones you listed. couldn't find anything for Suzuki except a post on the hull truth with someone else looking for one and finally deciding that they didn't exist, I'll do some more looking into that before ruling it out.
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Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
http://www.baymfg.com/
I asked them about Suzuki extension about 2 years ago and they said something like the kits would void the warranty etc . . . so they weren't going to make them for Suzuki. Bite the bullet and swap it out for $1300. You might ask them if they have a 25" 150 Suzuki too??? There is usually $1000 difference in price b/w the 150 vs the 175. Those extension kits are $600+ anyway. 20" on a bracket might work, but the powerhead will be close to the water coming off a plane. |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Quote:
Don Herman might be able to modify one of his brackets for a 20" shaft, so I wouldn't rule that out without asking him. I wouldn't worry about the resale issue because it's probably easier to modify a 20" bracket for 25" shaft than vice versa. I'd go with the smallest setback you can get away with, because that aft weight shift is ALWAYS there, even when you're on plane, while the flotation tank only helps at rest! Should be able to figure out min setback from the installation drawings that should have come with the motor. If you go with a custom bracket, just make the flotation tank as wide and deep as possible, with the shortest possible setback. When I was looking at the Armstrong bracket, I considered going with the twin engine bracket to get biggest tank with a single engine. And if it's aluminum, powdercoat is probably the most durable finish unless you just leave it bare like they do on many workboats. Adding ballast in the bow is a generally poor way to correct a CG balance problem because more weight always hurts performance. Carl Moesly did use ballast tanks in his race boats to adjust CG for running into head seas, but he had them rigged so he could dump the ballast whenever it wasn't needed. I'd move console & batteries forward as much as possible, and try a Doelfin, a stern lifting prop, and trim tabs, in approximately that order (of increasing cost!) before adding useless weight! |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
Hey SONOFABEACH,
Take a look at this. Fr. Frank brought it up a year or so ago and it makes some sense. http://www.hydro-shield.com/ Good luck! - BL |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
SonOfABeach,
Welcome to the site, and you're doing a great job on your project! This site is a full of great information, and while we're at it, I'll throw in my 2 cents. Since you're rebuilding the transom, I feel it would be a mistake to cut it down to 20", especially since you're going to hang a 450+lbs motor, that's too much weight for a low cut out. I feel the enclosed transom/bracket pro's outweigh the con's. And I don't see any reason why a bracket can not be set up for a 20" motor for the 20SF hull. With that said, keep these points in mind, 1. Maximun floatation, but with minimun setback. If you're having one custom built, you could go with 25" setback, and twin size full floatation chamber. I like the shape of the Hermco. 2. You will want trim tabs. As you redo your boat, keep as much weight forward as you can. Since I added the floatation chamber to mine, I removed the ballast from the front, and it runs great at cruise with a little input from the trim tabs. (the ballast was mostly there for static trim). Good luck and keep the post and pics coming! Lloyd |
Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
I'd pick the 140 over the 150 due to it's lighter weight, plus it should be cheaper; either one is more than enough power. I believe the 175 and 150 are about same weight; when I was looking at them, I would have picked the 175 over the 150 because it has variable cam timing, so it might also be a little more efficient than the 150.
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Re: took her under the knife (need some opinions)
would like to see pic of splash for 20
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