What about this???
 

question for everyone. if your could buy flapper type scuppers in the same diameter as thru HULLS and place the flapper on the bottom of the boat wouldnt that work stopping water comeing in but still let it go out? its gotta work right???

Re: What about this???
 

I've pondered the same question,and searched and searched all the scupper questions on this site and others,but with no luck.
I think the flappers are made to work better when semi horizontal,not straight vertical.

When they are in a somewhat vertical position,the rubber flapper,hangs fairly straight,and has a natural tendency to easily swing closed with a slight amount of back pressure from the water.

If you place it on a vertical plane,it's going to always want to hang open.I,m thinking that if it opens too much. water pressure will not be acting on the face of the flapper,but only on the edge,making it difficult to work the way it's designed too.
Of course like many things I've thought,I could be completely wrong.

I'm going to try using the VORTEX thingy,I tried them out on a two liter soda bottle,and they work great.

How much water enters your boat through the floor scuppers?I have the same exact boat as you,and haven't splashed it yet so i have no experience with the water problem.

Re: What about this???
 

I have a 78 i/o CC that was converted to a outboard on a bracket.No matter what speed I run water gushes in the floor drains.When I'm running 30 + Mph it looks like a fountain at a Vegas casino.When the boat is stationary with the plugs out if I stand at the helm no problem , the slightest move towards the rear or either side will start the inward flow.

Re: What about this???
 

WWP2, water should drain out anytime you are running. On my 20' at 30mph the scuppers literally vacuum the water out. No way you should have a fountain effect at that speed. What do the scuppers look like on the hull bottom?

Re: What about this???
 

I have the recessed pocket with a slight ramp directly in front of the drains. it looks as if it should create a suction and suck the water out but it doesn't.I'm going offshore this weekend , wahoo - king's and mahi in great numbers according to friends and the fishing reports online. I will pull the plugs and photograph the fountains at speed and post online.

Re: What about this???
 

Fountains, huh... Wee bit odd, I think. What motor and bracket do you have mounted? sounds like you have way to much weight aft. Are you riding pretty bow high? Not sure I understand the recess of those little wedges in front of the scupper tubes... almost sounds like they're on backwards creating a pickup scoop...love to see a picture of that, too. Good luck with the fishing!

Re: What about this???
 

armstrong bracket Suzuki 225 2-stroke EFI , Believe me it is very disheartening to have to keep the plugs in as I have been aboard a friends boat that got pitched back on it's transom when a 8 to 10 ft. wave lifted the bow and stood us vertical , when I lokked to the back of the boat there was no motor and 1 1/2 to 2 ft. of the transom completely awash in white water , when the bow settled all the water washed forward and the next wave lifted the bow and washed everything inside out thru the cutout for the outboard. No one onbaoard said a word for several minutes.I quickly thought about my boat and what would have happened with my setup.Would the water have not washed in due to the closed in transom , there is no way that amount of water would not have swamped my boat . The fellow who owned the boat immediately sold the boat and his beach cottage he was so scared.It was a combination of wind and tide and a non maintained inlet. Between the waves ther was maybe 1 1/2 ft. of water along with the fact that as the wave broke the captain completely backed off the throttle.

Re: What about this???
 

Mcgillycuddy there are several pics of my boat in the photo section under first try pics 8/24/08.

Re: What about this???
 

WWP2
Something is not Kosher here :D
I have almost the same setup. Being a previous i/o should not make a difference. Before my transom inclose the only time water might have come back up the floor scuppers was at anchor with two or more guys at the transom on one side. Now with the bracket, I get NO water. My scuppers have always exited thru the transom even thou the mold has the indents where the previous years the water exited straight down. For some reason it appears you might have excessive weight aft causing your gushers. Have you checked the bracket chamber for a leak that has filled it with water?.

I think having your scuppers exit aft out the transom might solve these issues.
You also could criss cross the drains out the transom with PVC pipe. (Port scupper drains out the transom Stbd side & Starbrd scupper drains aft out the port side)
I would like to see more pics (ex. Battery & gas tank location, baitwell, inside the transom showing the scupper drains and how your boat is sitting in the water etc.)
Lets see if we can find your weight culpret...

Here is an inside shot of my floor drains (prior to the inclose/bracket install) exiting out the transom. Notice that the drains make a 90* before going thru the floor (right side of picture)and then straight out the transom. (Disregard the "T" piece as that was a drain for a floor hatch that was tied in after)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...oordrain-1.jpg

This shot shows the location of the old drain (above pic)vs the new scupper drain location. Much higher after considering the bracket flotation.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ailoutside.jpg


Finished
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ack/ladder.jpg

Sitting in the water. Notice the scuppers are above the water line
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...launchday2.jpg

Re: What about this???
 

Capt. Chuck I have 2 batteries that sit within about 3 in. of the rear of the main tank,they sit about 18 in. apart or equidistant from the center line.This is slightly forward of the front of the old engine compartment I believe. There is no live well. We added a 20 gal. rear tank made of Alum. that sits about 5 in. from the transom under the rearward ssection of the engine compartment.I have never put fuel in it because of my concern for the weight at the rear .That was my brother's idea.We cut out the top of the transom and added a stg/fishbox compartment made out of King Starboard.This rarely has anything in it other thn an Extra gal. of oil. We also added a custom fitted tank in front of the cabin where there used to be a floor stg. area .About 38 gals. that I always keep full , I try to run off the main tank to burn off the most rearward weight. Sitting at rest the boat is low in the rear . I will try to get some pic's up so you can see . It does sit low in the rear even with no one on board .I have an old picture from the floppy disk camera days that I'll post. Thank's for the interest.

Re: What about this???
 

WWP2-I'm with Tarpun, you would have a vacuum with the scuppers at speed, pulling the water away. My SF23 was originally a diesel jackshafted to an outdrive. It has been converted to twin 225's on a bracket. At 900 lbs of motors, the boat still has water shedding ability with all that weight. On my transom I have exhaust baffels that have been converted to giant scupper drains. Is it possible that your drains have a raw water pick up connected from when you had the I/O???

Re: What about this???
 

Mine did the exact same thing when I first purchased it a few years back. Eventually I screwed some clamshells over the holes facing backward and that solved the problem.
The first time I took the boat out it scared the crap out of me. We had seatrialed it with the drain plugs in.

Re: What about this??? *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by capt_chuck

Re: What about this??? *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by capt_chuck

Re: What about this??? *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by capt_chuck

Re: What about this??? *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by capt_chuck

Re: What about this??? *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by capt_chuck

Re: What about this???
 

[image]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...8/104_1145.jpg[/image]

Re: What about this???
 

[image]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...8/MVC-004S.jpg[/image]

Re: What about this???
 

[image]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...8/104_1146.jpg[/image]

Re: What about this???
 

finally I got it . I hope these will help with the diagnosis

Re: What about this???
 

WWP2
I hate to say it but I have never seen such a self bail mess in my life. That setup is a after market screw up and given the right conditions can cause you to sink :(

Bottom Line, It appears the bottom has been ground down till you now have a hook in the hull. You need to fill those holes up, take off the faring block, re-glass & true the bottom and run some decent floor drains out the transom as I previous suggested.

Some others (Don Herman) need to chine in here.

Re: What about this???
 

You're right Chuck - SeaCraft never built them like that!

Just noticed that axial "step" at the chine! The idea of an axial step is to create a flow separation and trap air much like the lateral steps on the VDH. I have a book by a famous British guy named Uffa Fox, who built some racing hulls with a series of axial steps and wedges in the 1920's. The hulls had about 3 equally spaced steps along the bottom, giving them a "saw tooth" appearance when viewed from the side. The concept was that when a wave forced the forward section of the hull out of the water, the increasing "angle of attack" on the rear section of the hull would create extra lift and force the bow back down, much like a trim tab. I believe the concept worked fairly well and created a very flat running angle.

The problem with this one is that they didn't do it right! You need a sharp 90 degree step in the surface to cause flow separation, not 45 degrees like this one. I suspect the water won't separate, but will just follow the surface and blow right up thru the scupper, especially at low speed! Looks like someone tried to add a wedge to the aft end of the outer panel as well (the hook that Chuck mentions) because the lateral step is gone in that area. That feature will also increase the pressure in the area forward of the wedge, further aggravating the problem of blowing water up thru the scupper! The other small wedge just forward of the scupper is also not original - hard to tell w/o a scale in the photo, but it looks MUCH thicker than the one Potter used on the 20's, which were less than a 1/4" thick.

If you carefully sight down the chine of a 20' hull from forward looking aft, you can see where Moesly DID build in a slight wedge or hook in the outer panel but it's very subtle - the chine drops down maybe a 1/2 inch over the aft 8-10' of the hull. This panel is almost clear of the water at about 40 mph, so this wedge would have no effect at high speed; I suspect it's purpose is to improve with low speed planing and load carrying ability. It may be there on the 19 also. Haven't looked at the 21 or 23.

Bottom line is, Chuck is right, the only way to fix that thing is to rebuild that section of the hull to original configuration which is well proven! I'd also move the scuppers to the transom and maybe cross them also, the way Moesly used to do it.

Re: What about this???
 

Thanks for posting the picture. Weight and bracket are not the culprit. And yep, now I believe your Seacraft is really a fountain :o. Bushwacker and Capt Chuck are right on. Whoever doctored that hull should stick to pottery :D. The recessed pocket behind the wedge is effectively serving as a scoop slowing or diverting water right up you wazoo, err, scupper tube. I'll get a picture of what mine looks like tomorrow. The right angle at the back of the wedge Bushwacker mentioned separates the flow of water, maybe creating a pocket of air aft, allowing water to be sucked out. And the hull's straight line minimizes friction enabling the water to flow by with little impedance. The altered pocket you've shown us is definitely the root of your fountain.

It also appears the scupper tube is toast and the seal is gone so you'll probably have a saturated wood block that surrounds the tube which may be corrected like Bushwacker described in his scupper restoration. Whether you plug the tubes from above or not, I think you'll still be taking on water. Consider taking corrective action soon. Good luck.

Re: What about this???
 

Thanks all I knew I'd get some good fixes from the wealth of experience the site offers.I got the boat in 98 and have had nothing done to the floor drains , so whatever is there came from the previous owner/owners. I know from the previous guy that I'm at least the 4th.At one time there was a fighting chair mounted in the bow on top of the stg. comp. And at on time there was one mounted on top of the motor cover when it was an i/o.Itcame with a spotting tower that folded down also.I have one of the fighting chairs in my stg. bldg.The 1st. owner fished offshore out of Hatteras, nc I don't know about the 2nd. but the guy I bought it from fished the chesapeake bay mainly drift fishing with the wife and daughters.It had 130 screw holes around the cap and console for rod holders/drink holders/forward bimini and such.Your diagnosis about the modification to the bottom fits with this scenario.Believe iy or not the bilge stays bone dry currently.I ran the boat about 160 miles weekend before last from Carolina Beach NC to Myrtle Beach SC and points beyond ,left it in the water for three days and when I hauled it out at the ramp on a steep incline , no water .I do see the concern you guys have down the road if this is not rectified .I greatly appreciate all your comments.

Bill

Re: What about this???
 

i was always under the impression that seacrafts were unsinkable ever since my grandfather told the story of when he picked up his seafari25 from the marina which was storing her for the winter. he fired her up, pulled away from the dock and thought something was funny when he tried to get her on plane. he pulled the throttle back, popped open the engine hatch and found she was full of water to just below the engine block. the marina had not put the bildge plug in. the boat had been sitting in the water for over a week like that. that happened in the late 80's sometime and ever since then, i always deemed her as unsinkable.

has anyone ever sunk a seacraft? just curious

Re: What about this???
 

Yeah, they'll sink, rumour has it they'll turtle a while but unless they've been altered dramatically they'll sink under the wrong conditions. I think several of the guys have had the experience and others have come to their rescue. Here's an old post. And they will sink in freshwater faster as I think saltwater offers more bouyancy.

http://www.classicseacraft.com/forum...rev=#Post62437

Re: What about this???
 

My 20 did not sink, it turtled, we righted here but she never went down and I do not think she would have.

Re: What about this???
 

SeaCraft trying to spot fish ;)


http://www.casdvm.com/photos/SeaCraf...eDownsmall.jpg

strick

Re: What about this???
 

In my opinion, the 'wedges' that are on the bottom are the right idea but are the wrong size and in are in the wrong place. They should be a little thinnier and aft further, i would recommend a clamshell installed covering 1/2 the hole, creating a venturie that sucks the water out, right now with them being so far forward it is pushing the water in, the boat is not going fast enough to suck it how, too much bottom hull pressure.

Re: What about this???
 

I checked the port side drain and it looks original. There is no extra wedge stuck on and puttied/marine-texed over as you saw in the pic.Although there is some putty around the drain tube on the starboard side . I think someone along the line replaced the tubes and puttied them in. The port side is smooth and in line with the hull,no addtional ramp.In the pic you can see that there is a slight gap between the front edge and the hull, when it gets light this morning I,m going to try to pry it off.

Re: What about this???
 

the picture says it all..........Good luck on your modifications.

Re: What about this???
 

The wedge is not the problem. The problem is the concave area behind the wedge - it acts as a scoop, your scupper tube needs to be lengthened and the entire cavity should be filled and faired flush with the hull say 6" in front of the wedge and 6" behind the back edge of the recessed area. You might scrape the paint off the wedge but I would suggest you not be too hasty in removing it. Heres a picture of mine. scupper tube is behind the wedge maybe 1/4" or less centered behind the 3" wedge
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...repairs009.jpg