1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Let me start with yesterday. It was the last day (until 7-1-09) for salmon fishing here in our area and I was determined to go. It was windy and 3 ft chop, still fought my way out to the area I wanted to fish, just as I got almost there, my Honda started surging. I knew I was running with only about 25 gallons of fuel and brought along an extra 5 gal container in case my Northstar fuel flow gauge was wrong, as it turned out it was right on the money, said I had 26.5 gallons left, I pulled 26 gallon out of the tank. I had started to season with 75 gallons. Obviously the rough ride really washed the inside of the fuel tank and mixed things up.
A quick check showed that the primer bulbs on the main and Yamaha T9.9 kicker were sucked down flat. Thank goodness I had an extra 3 gal tank for the kicker (carried it for years and never needed until now), disconnected the line from the main tank and hooked that up and fired up the kicker and managed to get back away from the shore line, I had been pushed to within 200 yards of the shoreline by now.
Next step, I checked the SMALL Racor/Honda fuel filter in the motor well and saw that it had a LOT of rust sediment in it. I drained that into the motor well and let it run out the drain hole (no tree hugers around). Re primed the filter and engines and they started for me, possibly averting a disaster or at least was able avert a long slow 13-14 mile ride home. I got back home and spent the afternoon sucking fuel out of the tank. The tank is a 115 gallon factory installed tank. The junk that had managed to plug up the filter continued to flow, but slower since I was using 1/4 hose on the filter, after draining the filter a couple of times, I would guesstimate that I had pulled 1/4 to 1/3 cup of junk out of the tank. Surprisingly, no water was present. I have had a very slight gas odor for some time in the hull, but no leaks.
My question is basically, IS IT TIME TO REPLACE THE 115 gallon tank? If so what is the easiest way to do this? There are 2 deck plates that will come out to give access. How is the tank fixed to the hull? Are they totally foamed in?
I do not need that big of a tank for my usage here in the islands. I am getting really good fuel economy with the new 225 Honda and would only use 20 gallons at most on a day of fishing. Should I go with another aluminum tank or go to a Moeller plastic tank, maybe 75 gallons?
There is a lot of questions here and I apologize for the length of the post. Gary :D

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Needed tank replacement would take inspection, pressure testing, etc. I would say welcome to the ethanol world.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

I have never used ethanol in the tank. We still good gas here. The only stations here with alcohol in the gas is the AM/PM markets.
I wish there was an easy way to pressure test it in the boat. I have all the gas out that will come through the fuel pick up line.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

You can try to clean it yourself, pay someone, or remove the covers and inspect the tank and then decide your course of action, you have a 20 year old tank. I have found some tanks to be foamed in - creating the problem, some neglected and some just no good. My advice, remove the deck and give it a thorough inspection.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Stopped by a shop that makes tanks for all the local boat builders. Got an estimate of about $500.00(ballpark)for a 65 gallon tank.
Should I put a larger tank back into the boat or go smaller. How would it hurt future selling price. Around here most boats this size run around 60 gallons.
Next project is going to be removing the deck plates and do a closer inspection and a look into the tank.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

RDS in fla built the original tanks in 1989,and they still have the diagrams for it. i replaced the 135 gal tank in my 89 23cc 3 years ago for 565 and shipping from Fla to eastern NC was 125. Les

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

I got into the tank today through the fuel sender hole and managed to get the rest of the gas out. I can see about 1/2 of the tank and it looks good inside, there is some junk on the bottom, but not rust and I was able to get a towel into the hole and swab out a lot of it. I think by tomorrow it will be completely dry with the gas evaporating. I am still pondering the next step. The tank looks to be foamed in so cannot see anything but the top. :D

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

At a minimum, block/plug all connections - use a bicycle pump with a gage installed through a cork in one of the blocked lines and see if the tank holds pressure. If it does, then it is your risk to use. If is does not then you have no choice replace.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Gary,
I have a 1989 Sceptre, and when I pulled the tank out last year, this is what I found. It wasn't leaking, and 95% of it was fine, but there was deep pitting where the foam that held water was touching the gas tank. I don't know if it would of gone one or 10 years, but the pitting was more than 1/2 way through. As for the junk, you might want to remover your anti siphon valve, you really don't need it on an outboard as long as the lines are all above the top of the tank. Those will give you fits if you have junk in the tank. I put a 148 gallon tank in mine, but I run a lot of long distances.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

I don't think there is an anti-siphon valve installed. There are 2 outlet/pickup tubes going into the tank. Both are within 1/4 inch or (probably) less of the bottom and nothing on the bottom of the tubes that I can see, they just look to be open. One of the tubes is plugged on top of the tank.
Where would the anti-siphon valve be located?
When I bought the boat new in 1989, there was a hose connected to the second connection and they just left it laying on the bottom of the hull with an open end. I removed it and put is a plug into the tank outlet.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Where would the anti-siphon valve be located?

Typically inside the fitting closest to the tank. My understanding is that it's meant to prevent flow if inverted....like a flipped boat. :eek:

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

JohnB, how did you get your tank out of your hull? These things are huge. I think mine will be like 91"X30"X10". How do you get the foam loose?

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

I posted an abreviated version of my rebuild.
The link below shows how I used a threaded rod, and a 4x4 piece of wood to lift the tank out. It was a PITA.

http://www.classicseacraft.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=52892&Forum=Al l_Forums&Words="The%20SeaCraft%20soap%20opera%20co ntinues."&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=52084&Search= true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=14&n ewertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post5289 2

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Thanks for the post reply John, good ideas. I am just wondering if the tank will come out of the hull enough to lift
out with the engine mounted. I can only get my hull open up to the step up on the cabin, it does not go straight through like the yours, so there is about 3 feet there to contend with in being able to slide it back and up, if it comes lose. My tank has a lot of junk in it, I may just try to clean it out and then determine if i have a leak.
I did e-mail RDS and got a reply that some would contact me.
The boat is sitting slightly crooked on the trailer and with the trailer jack up, I have a low corner to collect any liquid. I was thinking about using a pressure washer and trying to get all the junk washed back to the corner and then use a hose to siphon out the water, does that sound like it would work. RACOR/Honda filters are too expensive to be changing weekly.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

I removed the caulked in panels today and was able to stick my nose in the "V" under the tank platform and I can smell gas, there is no sign of leakage, but the stink is there. I've got the tank ready to remove. The tank looked like it has been moving little bit as one on the "L" welded on brackets was broke and most of the screws were just finger tight where they had been wearing on the fiberglass in the stringers. The tank was about 80% free from the foam, worked the rest loose. Other than that, everything looks in good shape including the tank platform. Tomorrow I will try rigging something to lift and slide the tank. Right at the rear of the tank there is a 3/4" piece of plywood glassed into the stringers and the bait well fits snug to it, so really don't want to have to cut on that. I do have 5" at the top to be able to lift and hopefully the tank will clear. I think if I get it that far back, I will be able to clear the engine. Sure was an adventurous day for me since I have never been into the hull like that. I was able to work on some wiring for the float switch on the bilge pump and get the float working again. Sure a lot easier than working through the small hole in the engine well.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Hey Gary,

Any pics of the process?

Lloyd

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Loyd, sorry no pictures at present. I can not believe it but they made the hole 27 inches wide and the tank is 28 inches wide. I talked with a boat repair shop this AM and he suggested that since I am going to go to a smaller tank, instead of cutting up the boat, cut the tank and collapse it in so it will come out, said it would be a lot less work that redoing the glass. I just happen to be the owner of an 8 inches grinder, if that won't work, guess I will have to rent or borrow a sawszal.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Gary, be very careful cutting into that tank with anything. Gasoline fumes never seem to go away and will explode, with any spark. There is a proper way, I just don't happen to know it. Check with a welder, or someone with experience cutting open fuel drums to find out how to do it.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

you can fill the tank with water to displace the gas fumes

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

I put water into the tank and started cutting with a (power saw) sawzal, got it opened enough to see the 1st baffle, this is not going to be easy. I remeasured the hole and the deck plate, I think if I cut 1/2" on each side, I will still have plenty of support to replace the deck panel and good support.
All the deck screws are totally loose, any idea of how to repair them? Maybe epoxy and re drill the holes? I know the caulking holds the plate in place, but would be nice to keep the salt water out as I know it would seep through the screws. :(

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Or pump CO2 or Argon into the tank.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Well the tank is finally out. I had to cut one piece of 3/4" plywood (will need to replace it) to have room to slide the tank back and up after cutting about 1/2" off each side of the deck flange, (still plenty of room to reinstall the deck plate). I had to cut about 2 feet off of the tank to be able to slide it back far enough to lift it out with a come-a-long. I really did not want to remove the 225 Honda. I had it hanging in the air with about 5 gallons of water in the tank and I found a water bubble droplet seeping out of a small corrosion area. Not much, but enough to make a stink. The inside of the tank was a mess, lots of junk had accumulated. The tank was 98X28X10 w/4 baffles (115 gal). SEACRAFT did a lousy job installing the tank. No neoprene on the bottom, but large splotches of some type of foam/rubber material which held water of course and the sides were foamed in and had some corrosion, the tank had been painted with a gray paint of some sorts. It probably would have been impossible to do a through cleaning of the inside of the tank, so replacement time was in order even w/o the gas leak. :cool:

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Too late to edit, so will do another post on today's lesson.
I really found the leak a little while ago. I was cleaning out some of the foam on the tank deck and found that the starboard rear corner foam really smelled like gas. I has set the back part that I had cut off on top of the rest of the tank and was washing down the inside, found several corrosion indentations on the inside, but noticed water drops forming on the rear portion of the tank. I then took a putty knife and scraped the outside and here comes a pee hole with water squirting out about 2 inches. Sure glad that did not happen on the water, but it was ready to pop. Then instead of dealing with crud in the tank, I would have been dealing a bilge full of gas. I have an outboard and and at that time, the float switch on the bilge pump wasn't working (just fixed that since the deck was off). Guess I avoided a disaster in the making.
I would post pictures but haven't mastered that yet. Maybe try later, unless someone would like to post some of the pictures I took, I could E-Mail them to you. Let me know as my comcast does not show up on the profile.
I think my e-mail address is current on the profile, I will check it and if not update it.
:o
OK, I uploaded the photos to photo bucket now trying to figure out how add them here.
Ok, I guess if you want to see them click on the link. Last one is just a picture of our active volcano, Mt Baker, we look at it all the time, some days you can see stem plumes.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...RSCN0767-1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...6/DSCN0763.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...6/DSCN0761.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...6/DSCN0759.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...6/DSCN0756.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...6/DSCN0766.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...6/DSCN0427.jpg

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

The corrosion and resulting leak are common with Seacrafts. I have not seen the plywood aft of the fuel tank on previous 23's, all sceptres. The color of the bilge is familiar. The cutout of the hatches are very similar to the sceptres. Good luck with the replacement of your tank, I would go with a tank that maximized the area of the area it is located, if not for resale purposes only.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

et23, the large tank is a pain for me here in the Northwest. Our boating / fishing seasons limit one to about 6-7 months and then you have to deal with old gas. I was thinking about 70-75 gallons, that would last me about 3 months as we only travel about 15-20 miles each way. At my age, this will be my last boat, I plan on running it until I am unable to keep fishing. I just re powered last spring w/ Honda 225 and then a new Yamaha T9.9 this winter.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Ok, its your decision and boat, just my recommendation. Good luck
ET

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

ET23, I would have to pull the engine and then there is no guarantee you could get that size back in the hole after all the trouble I had getting it out. I had to cut almost 3 feet off the tank and cut off the front side mounting brackets just to clear the end of the tunnel. I thank you for the advice, but it is just not practical to try and get it installed. I am thinking 75 gallons is a push. The old tank was 99 inches long,28 wide (w/27 inch hole) and 10 inches high for a 11-12 inch high tunnel. The replacement will have to be able to lay almost flat in the hole that is left open.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Thanks for the pics.

Looks like you have things cleaned up pretty good!

Keep us posted on the reinstall and get back fishing!!

Lloyd

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

If you want your pictures to show in the post. Just click on your photo bucket link. When the picture shows up right click on the photo. Then click on properties, and copy the location. Then come back and post reply select image and then paste the location in.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...6/DSCN0427.jpg

The pictures should come up. I would have done them all for you except I'm late to go fishing already :D

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Thanks for the info. I guess if anybody wants to look they can just click on the link.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

What you saw with the tank/foam and corrosion is what every 20 year or older seacraft looks like. Make sure the plywood platform is ok. Mine failed on one side, and the tank shifted down on that side and knocked the stringer off the floor. Potentially, very dangerous. These platforms were not "glassed" up, and rot from the bottom up, not the top down. Reach underneath and feel for any soft wood.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Thanks for heads up John, I was under the deck scraping foam off the tank deck and everything felt good, I will have to investigate further. I am going to get a local shop to install the new tank so they can glass in whatever needs to be done.
Most all the screw holes are worn out on the deck where the deck plate screws go, what is the beast way to repair them? Marine TEX or 5200?

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

I had the boat measured by the boat shop who will do the tank. We settled on 72X27X9" tank. If I did my math right, that will give me 75 3/4 gallons. That way the tank can be slid back into the tunnel w/o a hassle and then tied down. The fabrication shop here locally is about 2-3 weeks out so it will be toward the last week of May for the tank.
As far as the holes are concerned, they will do a little grinding of the bulk fiberglass that was used to hold the deck in solid and then glass a strip under the flange to have solid holes for the screws.

Re: 1989 23WA Seacraft fuel tank replacemnt/maybe?
 

Picked up my boat yesterday and it really looks good. Easy fit and it has neoprene strips under it and foamed sides. I like the way they put flanges front and aft on the tank and the glassed in wood and stainless screws on each end to make sure it not going to move. I will take a couple of pictures when I get time. I just got home on Saturday night after a very long slow drive from East Lansing Michigan in rental truck w/dual axle car hauler w/a Ford explorer. I know we were way over weight, etc, but we did make it.