Fuel blockage on seafari
 

I think I have something blocking my fuel flow causing my fuel pump to work harder than it can.

I ran about 50 miles last Sunday and ran flawlessly, but when I got back to the kelp beds I put it in idle and we started drifting to fish. After about a minute of idling, the motor would die.

I know the pump creates about twice as much suction at speed than at idle so to some degree that substantiates the ability to run at speed. Switched over to auxiliary tank to run home and idle was fine - in fact I let it idle for 15 minutes at the dock while fetching the trailer.

I've removed the horizontal brass fitting and it doesn't seem to have a check valve. Wondering about the supply elbow on main tank. If I unscrew that what will I find? Is there an anti-siphon valve within that elbow? Or is there crap in the pickup tube? How would I determine that? :D

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

THERE SHOULD BE AN ANTI-SIPHON VALVE THREADED TO THE ELBOW AND THERE SHOULD ALSO BE A SCREEN ON THE END OF THE PICKUP TUBE. IF ITS NOT ON THE END OF THE TUBE THERE WILL BE A CONE SHAPED SCREEN WHERE THE PICKUP TUBE TREADS ONTO THE ELBOW. DONT FORGET IT MAY ALSO BE A PROBLEM WITH THE VENT TO THAT TANK. JUST MY .02

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Thanks for the feedback nuthinfancy. I was pretty sure it wasn't the vent cause I usually check it for air release when I'm filling up. I removed the fitting at the elbow and put a light in and then a q-tip to feel for a check valve spring and found none. I then removed the elbow and found a blob of what appears to be silicone:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...lockage003.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...lockage004.jpg
Based on where I found the blue blob any screens are either deteriorated or absent. My guess is that sealant from the fuel sensor broke off or dissolved over the years due to the ethanol gas and each time I top off the tank the ethanol eats away at the silicone or whatever was used as a sealant. Make sense?

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

WELL YOU KNOW THERE ISNT A PROBLEM WITH THE ENGINE OR PLUMBING FROM YOU TANK SELECTOR VALVE CORRECT? IF SO, THE PROBLEM IS ASSOCIATED WITH ONE TANK. THE SILICONE IS PROBABLY CLOGGED IN THE HOSE FROM THE TANK TO THE SELECTOR OR IN THE SELECTOR VALVE NIPPLE. TRY TO BLOW BACK INTO THE TANK THROUGH THE PICKUP TUBE TO BE SURE THERE ISNT ANYMORE "BLUE GOO". OBVIOUSLY IM ASSUMING YOU HAVE TWO BUILT IN TANKS WITH A SELECTOR VALVE AS I DO. ALSO CHECK ALL CONNECTIONS AS YOU MAY BE SUCKING AIR SOMEWHERE. TRASH ALL RUSTED/CORRODED HOSE CLAMPS AND REPLACE WITH STAINLESS. AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM ISOLATED. MAYBE A PIN HOLE IN THE PICKUP TUBE ABOVE THE FUEL LEVEL. JUST THINKING AS I WRITE.

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

That is an interesting possibility as this has occurred @least twice in the last month as I burned half the projected fuel and the size of the glob is obviously bigger than any logical filtering screen.

How do I get to the pick-up tube, are we talkin' an arthroscopic cam of sorts or wtf?

Clearly there is some flotsam in the tank. Should I just siphon/filter the balance of the tank out, or get a proper fuel polishing service... cost me about 350 clams out here...

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Your Seafari is a 20' like mine. Pull the fuel tank cover out of the floor, and everything is right there, easy access. Remove the fuel feed hose from the fuel pickup fitting on the tank and then remove the fuel fitting, if yours is not a welded fitting. When you remove the fitting, the pickup tube into the tank comes out with it. You can easily see if there's a problem and make any necessary repairs. If your fitting is welded, remove the hose and gently blow high-pressure air down into the tank to blow out any temporary obstruction. Buy new gaskets for the fuel sender, remove the sender and visually inspect the tank. You can also use the sender opening to siphon out any remaining fuel in the tank to inspect for loose debris. If you find loose debris, there are two ways to remove it. One is the terrycloth shop-towel-on-a-wire method, and slowly and carefully swabbing out the whole tank. The other is to remove the tank and wash it out yourself. You can wash out the tank with water and Dawn dish washing detergent. After doing this twice, then blow a hand-held hair dryer into the tank to dry it completely before re-installing the tank.

This is very important: Install all new fuel supply hoses and filters regardless of whether you're re-installing the fuel tank, or just doing a minor clean-up. Don't re-use any old hoses. Consider replacing the vent and fill lines as well.

I put an inline 30 micron particle filter on mine just 6 inches from the pickup. Then my fuel line goes into a 10 micron water-separating Sierra filter with a water drain on it. From there it goes to the fuel bulb and into another (inside the cowling) inline 30 micron particle filter to catch any degraded hose debris.

You can literally do all of this in about 4 hours. The hardest part is removing the fuel tank if it is needed. Bring a cooler on board, and lots of terry shop towels. Better yet, bring a friend who will work for beer and snacks (or Coca Cola). Having somebody to talk with and complain to while working can be a real help.

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Thanks for the feedback Fr. Frank.
Fuel tank cover is off; as it is currently set up, vent line is visible at the fore port side of the tank, and sending unit is visible near middle of tank. Fill tube and fuel supply tubes are side-by-side at the back of the tank, actually under the deck, just fore of the aft hatches.

The gas pickup(elbow)fitting is pictured above. this was located at the aft end of the tank right next to the fill hose. A pick-up tube did not come up with it when removed. The "pick-up elbow" is brass - the welded female fitting appears to be aluminum, potential problem here? Location-wise does it sound like the fittings are in the right places?

Does that filter come like that and do you know the part number - I'd love to use the clear bowl system as opposed to my current sierra fuel/water separating filter?

If I'm understanding you correctly, your 30 micron particle filter is situated between tank and the fuel/water separator about 6" from the tank fitting?

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

That's just a bit different from mine. My fill tube is located just in front of the rear deck line, and the pickup is just aft of the deck line.

That's a problem. Check and see if you have a pickup tube attached to the welded-in fitting on the tank. If your pickup tube is not serviceable, you may have to put up $$ for a new tank

Yeah, pretty much. I'd prefer the pickup out from under the rear deck. You might want to consider an access plate for that.

Sierra Aqua View fuel fliter


That is correct. It is a clear plastic disposable filter with a paper element I purchased at Home Depot, like you see often used on industrial gas engines and lawn-mowers. I use it to catch particulate matter that may get into the tank before it gets to the water separator.

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Thanks again, Fr. Frank. I did cut a 10" hole in the splash-well for a Beckson water-tight plate which gives me reasonable access. Still, assessing the pickup tube will be an issue. Maybe it's time to pull the tank and have a closer look at things.

How often does that fuel/water filter get changed out, or do you just clean it out? Kinda pricey for a disposable maintenance item...

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

If you keep draining the water out, the filter will last for years. The purpose is to separate the water from the fuel. This one does that and the water then flows down into the bowl to be emptied. Normal water separators are only discarded because they become full of water, not because they get clogged. They are still capable of filtering the water out of the fuel, but no longer have a place to store that water. This will have the life of 20 disposable cartridges. You only need to change the paper filter element out when it becomes block by debris, or when the outer casing rusts through. With ongoing maintenance, that can be a very long time.

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

blow back into tank - you should here bubbles if fuel is in there - that maybe an isolated piece of crap - its a big tank to have that get sucked in

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Thanks. Exactly what I wanted to hear. I just changed one out just to see what was in it when I had carb floatissue. Drained it and found some particulate matter and some silicone no water to speak of (put it in a plastic bottle to see separation). Can I reuse it as a spare if necessary? It did its job but looks fine and it's only got about 30 hrs on it.

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Hey Gillie,
I saw the ethanol matinee a couple of times last year. Fortunately, it wasn`t a full length feature film, but a rather looonnnng matinee. So much fun I saw it twice...

My pickup collar was welded and threaded. Looked nasty. I was afraid. Blasted it w/ P.B. and a week later it turned right out. I feel the nylon pickups never should have been made. They crack,screens clog, get holes, fall off/apart etc. My pickup was alluminum 3/8 " id. You want all same same metals so you can use antisieze and avoid riots in the cell block. I also have a v notch in the bottom to release gremlins. It`s hard to get the bowl off the Racor sometimes ,so I carry a whole spare and a rubber strap wrench. Racor makes a vacuum guage for the outlet to monitor the filter.That`s about 19th for takeoff as La Guardia is stacked up again. Cooler flying weather is finally here, and time to hit the hanger for some love.
GFS

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Hey Sandy,
My elbow unscrewed pretty easily also. I let a single drop of liquid wrench sit for about 20 mins. Probably didn't even need it as I later noticed it had some Teflon tape on it. I get the mixed metals corrosion issue, but should I change the brass fitting for aluminum or stick w/ the Teflon tape barrier?

Any thoughts on how to assess the pickup tube itself? I have to imagine there is one in place, or my motor wouldn't have been able to suck down 20 gallons or so...Is it possible that the tube was an integral part (welded in place to the fitting nut) of the tank?

Also, are there any tried and true ways to seal the tank cover other than the 4 corner screws; weatherstripping, silicone, what? I'd almost like to form a gasket around it lip of the cover and just just the screws clamp it down...

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

sounds like you have a major problem with the pickup tube going MIA. It should have come out with the elbow. if it were mine i would drain the tank, clean it and possibly replace ALL fittings making sure to get the old tube out. thats just me, that way i KNOW there is no problem with the tank. it not the easy route but in my opinion the right route

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Hi nuthinfancy,
I'm thinking there is a pick up tube present because I put a hose to the fitting and blew in and could hear it bubbling, maybe not quite Bob Marley bubbles, but bubbles nonetheless. There is no blockage in the tube at this time.

Also if the tube is simply absent, I would not be able to run 50 miles without a hiccup. It is possible the tube is cracked or broken or missing a screen (silicone got to the fitting somehow).
Obviously there may be more silicone and who knows what other crap, so I'm certainly going have to inspect the tank - just don't want to do it while tuna are still fairly close.

Thanks again.

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Hey Gillie,

It sounds like your tank is original, as all fittings are same configuration and location as mine. I used to have a big watertight hatch cut into the splashwell and could access the fill and engine supply hoses and tank ground fitting from there. When enclosing the transom, Don Herman cut out the entire bottom surface of splashwell, which really opens up access to the bilge. The pickup tube is welded into tank and extends down to about 1/8" or less off the bottom; don't believe there is a screen on it. I believe my elbow is brass also, but never had a problem with it; I used the teflon liquid tape made by Permatex and have never had a problem with it. I suspect someone sealed your tank sending unit gasket with silicone, which won't stand up to gasoline, especially with the ethanol in it. Have to use something like the old No. 2 Permatex non-hardening stuff. There's probably more silicone in the tank, so I'd pull the tank and clean it; it's really easy to pull the tank on a Seafari. While you have it out it'd paint it with some coal-tar epoxy, which will eliminate any future corrosion issues. I installed a whistle in the vent hose, which helps to avoid overflows when refueling.

As for the hatch, it was originally sealed with silicone caulk in the gap between hatch and deck. If you need to pull hatch after it's been sealed, just cut thru the silicone with a sharp X-Acto knife in center of the gap, all the way around tank. As long as the silicone remains attached to the hatch and the deck, it'll remain relatively watertight when you put it back in, not perfect, but probably good enough. Denny

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

Thanks again, Denny. Exactly what I'd hoped to hear. My thoughts were the same regarding prior use of silicone on the sending unit. Shoot somebody even shot 18 ga. brads into the bulkhead glass just to attach some red oak trim...

Nice to know your configuration is the same. I'll probably run again this week and take a couple full auxiliary tanks in case I have a recurrence. Should be able to drain the balance of the tank in 20 miles or so, get me to the nearest banks and have a shot a some tune before the move back south.

Really like the vent whistle idea. I'll look into that. Not sure what coal tar epoxy is but I'll check with my epoxy guru.

As far as the silicone caulk are you referring to the home standard DAP or whatever caulk with silicone or 100% silicone. Thanks again.

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

I`d go all alluminum.

Tack a piece of heavy mono with dabs of silicone in the coffin and let dry. Then caulk as normal. This way in the
future you can easily split the caulk to remove it by pulling the mono up.

Still scratching my head on the pickup.....

GFS

Re: Fuel blockage on seafari
 

sorry i didnt completely explain why i made the comment about the pick up tube going MIA, i was thinking along the lines of the tube having already been cracked/corroded and by trying to unscrew that elbow, it finally broke/rung the tube completely off. my reason for saying this is because i had a friend of mine that had similar problems with hole in the tube and sucking air and when we removed the fitting, the tube was MIA. just past experience.

Aluminum Tank vent elbow needed
 

Today 09:06 PM
laelellen
Hi , Enjoy reading everyone's post. Looking for a aluminum vent tank elbow , Boats stores call it this but this one screws out of the tank at the pickup along with a brass barb fitting. The original is 40 years old little pitted
Like to replace back with aluminum if I can find one along with my new tank and hoses.will try to show pic of old elbow

New to this wasn't sure on how to or even where to post this subject. Thanks for your help on this.

I'm assuming this is a 3/8" brass street elbow. I'd go back with one just like it, however much newer and prettier!!

if 3/8" ,this must be work
https://www.ebay.com/itm/aluminum-3-...3ace%7Ciid%3A1

Don, It is an aluminum elbow....

I have seen those at Surplus Unlimited in Daytona on ISB (US92)

If you are not in a big hurry I will check for you in the next couple of days.
Only venture out of the woods when it is absolutely necessary.. :rolleyes:
When you become semi retarded it is hard to get motivated on anything !

Welcome to CSC, you did just fine on your first post with the pic and the
right section..

My new tank came with the tube built in it so you only need the 3/8 fitting. They also put two input fittings in I’m thinking maybe they thought I was putting twins on so I plugged the second . Now that it’s there would be good back up if I had issues with the one in use.

Don't use brass or bronze fittings in aluminum on a boat!! http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...ons/icon13.gif

Only use another aluminum fitting, or preferably a stainless one.

You can get a stainless elbow and then thread your brass fitting into that, or get a straight up pipe to hose elbow.

Something like this:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1yisgnLTJL.jpg
https://www.amazon.com/Brennan-5502-...t%2Belbow&th=1

Or this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1BpobIQu3L.jpg
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Ste.../dp/B00ZY5IFAI

Of course you'll have to size it for whatever size boss you already have welded into your tank.

aluminum elbow
 

Wow , Can't believe all the positive response on the Tank elbow, Did have one shipped from Great lakes skipper (Wisconsin) See Pic . They advertised Aluminum . But I believe its stainless very heavy. Magnet sticks to it. called them they weren't aware . wasn't sure if this would work . That Aluminum piece had been in there a long time. Guess I was looking for the same thing . Had a brass one from lowes in the picture probably wont use that one. Oh the Brass barb fitting had been in the old alum Elbow
. thanks again for all help and experience on this . John

Aluminum tank Elbow
 

If your already out there some time , sure I'm in no hurry. Hope I can return the favor.

Anti-siphon valve on fuel tank elbow
 

After I followed Bushwacker’s advice and added a fuel vacuum gauge, I discovered two things. 1 too much vacuum due to flow restrictions snd 2- an anti-siphon in my fuel tank discharge. After I drilled it to remove the ball, my vacuum dropped in half to about 2” Hg. Have been told not to run ETECs too lean.

I’m am not a materiel engineer but when I google aluminum and stainless togeather it’s says the 2 act like a Bettery and cause Corrosion . Looked at my old 17 year old tank with brass and aluminum and it was clean as a whistle. I know when I changed windows on the beach here in Florida some that were installed with stainless had corroded thru the holes leaving the caulk holding them in. Again don’t know much about the science .

SST and aluminum
 

Yup, many of us have broken and had to drill SST bolts out of aluminum. it's particularly a problem in moist or a salty environment. In the 70s on jet engine design we used wet zinc chromate primer on SST fasteners threaded into aluminum. Often this wasn't foolproof, so tried to design for enough material around the fastener that it could be drilled out and a helicoil or different type of internally threaded insert could be used to repair the hole. I often use an anti-seize compound with SST threaded into aluminum.

Brass is closer to aluminum on the galvanic series than any of the SSTs and therefore it's a good choice in aluminum. The 400 series SST are closer to aluminum than the 300 series. But I considered the 400 series as the rustier SST , those that would flunk my magnet test and I would try to avoid for boat hardware.

I remember when I built my RV 6 experiment airplane the builders that were smarter than I were very Anal about making sure thet neither came into contact and yes using methods u mentioned. Good news you won’t have to land a boat

Great discussion. I think I’m going go with brass and will inspect when I pull inspection covers once a year

Most marine tanks are made form 5052 (5000 series) aluminum. It is one of the most corrosion resistant grades of aluminum and yields higher strength than say 3000 series which a lot of AL stuff is made of. 5052 has more magnesium in it to aid in its properties. If you can find marine grade fittings that are 5052 grade or 5000 series you will have better corrosion resistance. A lot of fittings are 6061 aluminum and have good resistance to corrosion but the 5052 grade will be a better match if you could find them. I wouldn't be afraid of brass if that's what you had tho.

Aluminum fitting on a tank
 

I should have mentioned my tank fitting which I drilled to remove the anti-siphon ball is aluminum