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I Need A Shrink !
Well I guess it's time to finally get started on a 25 Seafari. I recently picked this boat up from a nice gentleman in S. California.
It was conveniently located about 15 minutes from Disneyland so I was able to kill two birds with one stone and take the kids to the "happiest place on earth" as well as check out this fishing machine which will make me one of the happiest guys on earth once it's finished. As she sits in the storage yard in LA http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/11.JPG The boat was already stripped as the previous owner was going to re do it but never got around to it. The boat has been sitting in storage since 1991. The previous owner had taken good care to keep it covered the whole time so overall it is in fairly good shape. It has a 260 Volvo penta (350 chevy) and a 290 out drive. http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/13.jpg http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/3.JPG Both motor and out drive appear in good shape however I will have my mechanic go through everything with a fine tooth comb. BTW I am new to I/O's and don't really know that much about them so if anyone has suggestions about the engine and out drive I would appreciate it. taking her home http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/12.JPG Checking out the tower http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/2.JPG working on the cap http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/7.JPG I've done enough sanding and grinding in my day so I don't feel too bad about getting help for that these days. The carpet in the cabin will be a lot easier to replace this way when the time comes. This is really a cool hull design. Note the Classic SeaCraft lines http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/5.JPG the deep V this hull is known for http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/4.JPG There were no concrete pig weights in the bow of this boat...so I guess I'll have to order some LOL. Here are some interior shots http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/6.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/8.JPG As she sits at dusk http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/10.JPG The Happiest Place On Earth http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/14.JPG strick |
Re: I Need A Shrink !
from what i have heard those 290 volvo outdrives are pretty bullet proof and very reliable.
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"As for the mystery boat... it's a 25 Seafari 1973 edition." -
This was a cryptic comment made just about 2 years ago as you finished up your miraculous rebuild of the twenty. What ever happened to that boat? With respect to your new find, I may have to have issued a warrant for your arrest!! There has got to be a law against how much we all look forward to this project. Maybe like.. inciting a riot! Seriously, I can't wait. I've got the 23 with the same power- an '85 issue. The drive I have has power trim and I don't see the trim cylinders on your 290 drive. I can tell you now, I like mine, though I plan to mate up a little bit heftier block- say 315 to 325 HP. I will be tuning in VERY regularly! Good luck, (not that you will need it with your talent for this stuff!) KUDO'S |
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Happy to see school back in session :) That shot without the cap looks great. 8' beam right?
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I agree with Lew, I'd put in a bit more HP. Say, 350 to 375 hp. Large displacement (400+ cubes) SB Chevy motors can make 375 hp fairly easily. Much cheaper than going diesel.
That 290 drive is heavy-duty stuff, keep it, but add power trim. |
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Thanks for the input guys....the out drive says power trim on the outer casing but I did not see a cylinder as well. The boat was sitting for many years and vultures picked away at some of the parts so I guess that's what happened to the cylinder.
Biglew- the other boat is still sitting in my yard. This one is in a little better shape (transom is good) and I like the original configuration...and the price was right. BTW what kind of performance numbers do you get with your sceptre using this set up? Hermitt- yes on the 8 foot beam. It would make a very nice looking CC Frank- I'm thinking for now I'll just keep the original set up...but may have a few things done to the engine. Goal is to get on the water without spending big $$$ strick |
Re: I Need A Shrink !
Chuck - You don't need a shrink to tell you "there's no cure" even after you hit rock bottom. 20 hour marathon drive down and back and you already have the cap off that beast.
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The out drive does have two cylinders so it is good to go in that regards. I was wondering if anyone knows the time line of the 290 out drive...what year it was put into production and what differs from a 270-280? this boat is a 1973 and the motor says 261 on the hour meter...I guess I was wondering if this set up was from the factory or if it was repowered at some point? strick |
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Hey Doc,
Happy New Year! Can't wait to get to class... Yeah, you'd mentioned you were heading south... Looks like the one in Stanton... Glad it's in good hands:cool: What did you do with the other Seafari 25? |
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Just joined here, and I don't even have a Seacraft! I am doing a boat project though, and this forum is the best on the web for rehab info...truly incredible. Looking forward to your latest series.
BTW-how did the Linex work out? I was considering it for my project. |
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Chuck-
Congrats on the new boat! I had to do a double take and read the entire link and see if it was old cause I remembered seeing a 25 at your place in January of 2008. Will you keep it fairly original or do you plan on making any modifications? Happy New Year. Ed |
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Be patient . . . This link takes forever to load.
http://vppneuapps.volvo.com/ww/PIE/V...863&lang=en-US Or http://www.volvopenta.com/VOLVOPENTA...n_engines.aspx Then Click on Operators Manual . . . It has some nice information on the 260 motor and 290 drive. Apparently there was an "A" and a "B" model. The link above is for 260A. 270 doesn't have the exhaust through the cavitation plate like the 280 and 290. 270/280 also has a shitty trim system (wimpy electric worm gear). 290 will have hydraulic Trim and Tilt. |
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That power combo is a time capsule. Look at the paint on the prop! 90% sure the hrs are original. Volvo car and marine engines were red late 60`s- early 70`s. The old b17/20/21 car/boat motors were amazing, but that Chevy is RED. Outdrive looks like the same vintage.
Ask your wrench if you should pull the plugs and shoot some Marvel in the cyls.. You could get 2000 hrs out of that. Is the carb a Q jet? {small primaries} Heck update the ignition, add some crash pipes, new brass freeze plugs and go. I think their is an additive to help old seals rejuvenate. Made by Lucas? Cheers, GFS |
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Geeze whatever you do,don't get a shrink.He may talk you out of doing the restoration.
What the heck would all of us do?we'd have to get shrinks to help us with the boat porn separation anxiety syndrome that we'd all suffer from. Like the others said,go with more Horse power.I run a 5.7 350 CI. 260-275 hp,with a Mercruiser Alpha drive in my 23 Tsunami,and it's not a rocket ship. My top speed at WOT is only around 35mph (gps),and that's dialed in with the correct prop and max recommended rpms.If I had to do it over again,I wouldn't go less than 300hp. Good luck with the project,we'll be Looking forward to the coming attractions. |
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Nice boat, I see a 23 in your shed, whats up with it?
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Strick,
Looking forward to seeing what amazing stuff you'll do with this one! Personally, I'd either keep the 350 or go with a big block. The sb chevy has fairly short rods and when you increase the stroke, it creates angularity problems (puts more side load on the piston because of the different geometry). Yes, it'll make more power, but I think you'd take a hit in durability. A good friend of mine had a single 350 Mercruiser in a 27 SeaCraft flybridge sedan cruiser, and went to a 400 sb to get more power out of the same size installation. After 300 hrs it was using a lot of oil and smoking bad, so he tore it down . . . every single piston was cracked! He then put in a single 454, and said it was great, no more durability problems. Said the only thing better was TWO of 'em, so he later bought a 28 Bertram with TWO 454's in it! Denny |
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Strick I don't feel so bad now that you mentioned
"Pig Weights" :eek: If you recall they beat me up for that comment a year or so back..... :D ;) Good luck with her re-do.. See ya, Ken |
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Strick,
Chris Downey put a Big block in his- a merc unit. He can probably fill you in on some of the obvious questions/challenges of doing so. Check it out over on the Gallery page. |
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I get now!
60' x 60' Man Cave $50 grand Two 25 Ft VD Hulls $2000 Two Custom Flotation Brackets $0 Trade Office Vists for Paint,Fiberglass,Epoxy,Wire etc. $0 Do I Hear Catamaran http://forums.floridasportsman.com/s...ey/pistols.gif PRICELESS For the rest of us it's Mastercard :eek: |
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Now that's a stretch!
Speaking of stretches.....let's talk about your LOGO!!!!!!!! |
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Gil- Yes it's the one in Stanton, It came up for sale about 1 week after I had the other one shipped out from NY. I'd been talking to the owner about this boat since 2008... Finally the price was right so I snagged it. I still have the other boat.
SBD- the Linex is holding up great. Almost two years old. Ed- Hope all is well with you. Yes for the most part I think I will keep it original. I may make a fiberglass swim platform with a place to mount a kicker. I will replace some of the veneer on the inside with real teak. There is already a lot of teak on this boat. There is also a HUGE teak swim platform that I have to put on the boat just to see how it looks. I will add a few things like some seat boxes with storage, fresh water wash down, Stereo and small flip down TV screen for the inside the cabin. Sandy- Yes the prop still has lots of paint still on it and the carb is a Q jet. The engine and out drive look like they have been sitting for a long time. I will look into the oil additive. John- Thanks. Your 23 looks FANTASTIC. I'm gonna keep it like it is for now....maybe up date the engine a bit then later down the road put either a diesel or big block in it. For now I don't mind putting around...no sense spending extra money I don't need to spend. Eddie- Thanks. The 23 is the $821.00 turn key Tsunami. Do a search and you will find it. We are doing a few tings to it inside the shop. I'll post some picture of that later. Ken- yea I remember...you took a hard hit for that one....You used the word PIG and Seacraft in the same sentence and that is a no no in CSC etiquette. :) Capt Gucchi- Your numbers are a little off but you are right on in the direction I'm heading. I could glue both hulls together and have a 25 seafari cataraman!!! strick |
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What a boat!
I can add a little to the discussion on your power system. I owned a 24 Seabird with a volvo 570/290 duoprop for 14 years, wish I still had it. The system was new in 1991. The essential parts of the 290(those that get you home) were completely bullet proof. I never did anything to it other than annual maintenance, even though it got way too familiar with coral heads and sandbars. Weak points are the tilt release (a zillion little parts that are a little fragile and expensive to replace), the trim cylinders(don't fail often, but are a bitch in labor and parts to replace) and the trim indicator, which is just junk. The 570 was the same as your block(painted red), same manifolds, risers, intake manifold(I think). My carb was a 4bbl holly. I think the system generated a little more hp than yours. One thing to be careful of. The engine sits very low in the hull, far below what volvo recommends. Make sure the both flappers on the drive are working well. Better, try to figure some way to install riser extensions. I'm going to 6 inch extensions in mine. When you want to spend a little (er, maybe a lot) of money, consider getting a duoprop foot. It is just the thing for as big a boat at this one, phenomenal torque, which produces a super hole shot, astonishing low speed performance,and great fuel efficiency. I'm going to respectfully disagree with those looking at big blocks for this hull, unless you really want to cruise near 40 knts. The 25 is a little tail heavy to start with, and a big block makes it worse. My 25, with a 300 hp volvo small block and an sx duoprop cruises at 30 mph at max efficiency(better than 2.5 smpg) and top ends at 40+. You could bump up the cruise to 35 mph with not too much reduction in gas mileage. I just got stainless props on it, which improved things, but haven't had time to get a full set of data with it loaded heavy. One question. Did either of yours have a chunk of foam underneath the area in the center of the hull between the bunks? Mine does and it looks original, but its the only foam I can find in the boat. Any other 25 owners with the same thing? Connor |
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Conner thanks for that post. I was thinking of getting a duo prop foot at some point. I'd imagine that with the deep V of this hull it will improve the torque issue when up on plane. Yes there was loose foam in both my 25's under the V berth bunks near the bow. I think this is foam that the factory places in areas between the liner and hull during fabrication and it just comes loose and falls into the bilge. Nothing to worry about.
strick |
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Chuck-Thanks in advance for all the effort to document your latest rebuild. Your I/O rebuild is of interest because of my original power on the 23 was a Volvo outdrive mated to a Volvo Diesel. I continue to consider the 383 Stroker or Cummins Marine Conversion Kit as 2 rebuild options. |
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YES!!!
SWEEEET!!!!! YES!!! SWEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTT!!!!! sorry guys, I'm a little excited. been out of touch for a while but this is very pleasant to come back to. Connor, ours is loaded with foam under the centre berth hatch as well. also tons of foam between the transom and liner. All the best in 2010 to all Brandon |
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strick |
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Thanks Hermit
strick |
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Check with a good Volvo rep. as to how mutch HP the out drive can with stand. Due to the change in Crankshafts in'85/'86 on Chev Motors, if you chose to repower with a Chev, the newer coupling to driveshaft will be required. As well as an Electric Fuel pump system. Good Luck. George.
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Strick,
Chris here. My apologies for not responding sooner and for being absent from the board lately - must remember to keep my priorities straight. I would be happy to help in any way I can; e-mail me at cdowney@harbormortgage.com or try my cell at 617-594-1162. I think following this project unfold be more addicting than watching the Soprano's series. Good luck and look forward to hearing from you. Chris |
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Thanks fellas for all the help. We are going to pull the engine tomorrow. Mechanic found two cracks in the top of both manifolds. I want the engine out so I can clean up the bilge etc.. If I keep the 350 I want to do it up right which would entail new manifolds and risers, re doing the heads, electronic ignition, fresh water cooled and a few other gadgets. He has a 2 454 mercruisers sitting in crates at his shop (one is a factory rebuild and has less the 100 hrs) with all the bells and whistles already for a very good price. So we are discussing the pros and cons of both applications in terms of labor and $$ spent on parts. My mechanic tells me that the 290 out drive will handle the 454 ok. Will post more pictures soon.
Chris I will be in touch. strick |
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Moving along. We removed the engine on Friday. Outdrive is in excellent condition with no corrosion. We are replacing the seal and bellows. The engine looks OK but is a little rough especially under the oil pan as there was some rust there. We will know more after we take off the heads.
http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/22.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/15.JPG Another shot of the hull http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/17.JPG It's been wet and foggy here in N. Cal and the sun has not shown itself in my neck of the woods for over 2 weeks! http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/18.JPG I moved the cap into the shop were I can begin doing some glass work. Yes I did have to do some grinding myself as there were lots of spider cracks and holes that needed to be carefully ground down. I'll post more close ups as I begin to fill those. I will be using vinyl ester for most of the glass work however I may use some epoxy in the bilge area were the motor was. http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/16.JPG Another shot of the tower http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/21.JPG I like the looks of the one on this Scepter http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/19.jpg http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/20.jpg I think I will modify the existing tower which has a visor type extension and make it look similar to the one you see on the scepter. This will also give it more support and add two more legs that mount to the front of the cap. More to come strick |
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This 25's going to be the best one yet!! Thats the Cape Coral Tow Boat. She's proudly rescued many!!
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"Here we go again", AGAIN!!!! Can it get ANY better? We'll see.
I love it!!! |
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Getting some things accomplished this past weekend. We removed the heads on the motor for inspection and my machinist says the motor has very low hours as there are still honing marks in the cylinders. We will be taking it apart and putting it back together with new rings, bearings, check the cam etc.. Most of the external components (starter, alternator,water pump etc..) will need to be replaced due to corrosion issues from sitting for such a long time so we have a parts list made up. Picked up a heat exchanger and new manifolds off craigs list also a Duo prop from e bay should be here next week.
we have been working steady on the cap and are about at the stage were we can flip it back over. Here are a few pictures of some of the glass work accomplished to the underside. Re glassing someone else hack job were the combing bolsters bolt to. I prefer one nice neat hole rather then the ream job shown below (no jokes Capt Chuck) http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/26.JPG The fein multimaster is a great tool for sanding hard to reach areas http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/24.JPG 1708 backing was applied and allowed to cure and then heavy matt to fill in the ground out areas. http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/23.JPG here is a shot of the vent box. There is one on either side of the cap http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/25.JPG Glassing in some blocks for the cables and wiring harness that will hide under the gunnel cap. There are 4 or 5 of these in place. http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/28.JPG The forward deck is in good shape so I'm gonna leave it alone http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/29.JPG I was not happy with the big flat area just behind the windshield were previously electronics had been mounted so I decided to rip it all out and re core it. There was a little rot in some of the balsa core and the previous owners attempt to fill holes did not meet up to standards. The roto zip is a great tool for cutting glass. http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/30.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/31.JPG All cleaned up http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/32.JPG applying new coring http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/33.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/34.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/35.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/36.JPG Areas were reinforced were the tower will mount http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/38.JPG backing for the bow pulpit http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/39.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/40.JPG bulk heads for the cabin http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/41.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/42.JPG Summer fun on the 20sf http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/43.JPG That's it for now! strick |
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Many Thanks, Strick.
This thread goes in my hard drive, with a backup! What a fabulous source of info on how my 25 is built |
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Thanks Conner I'll post a bunch of pictures of the guts of the hull in a little while. I appreciate your input on the engine and duo prop earlier. One thing I noticed already is that the floor of the 25 is laminated (glassed) to the stringers which is something I have not run across in the 23 or the 20. The floor is cored with 1/2" balsa and the glass is very thick probably close to 3/8 1/2 inch thick. The one thing I don't like about the floor support is the span between the port and starboard stringer which is quite wide probably near 5 feet. I'm gonna put a little more support under the floor by laminating some false stringers to narrow the span. I checked out your boat on photo bucket. Do you know the gear ratio of your drive?
strick |
Re: I Need A Shrink !
1.78:1. You are gonna like the duoprop.
The 290 drive had two gear ratio's that I know of. The one I had wasn't marked. If yours is the same, you may have to infer the ratio from the year it was built. My 290s ratio was 1.91:1 (I think) I ran F5 stainless props and it seemed about right, max rpm: 4600 rpm, medium load. |
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It's a 1990 foot and I was told it was a 1.78:1. It has aluminum props that come with it so I'm gonna try those first. It came off a 25 Sea Ray with the same engine I have (volvo 260) so well see how she works. Best part is now I have a spare lower unit for an emergency....maybe I can shove it under the bow somewhere :cool:
strick |
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Did a little internet research and found only two gear ratios for a 290 duoprop, 1.95 (part no 872885) and 2.3 (part no 872886) Mine must have been a 1.95.
I'm real curious how yours will run with a carbed engine and aluminum props, as a comparison to mine. When you get it in the water, speed at various rpm, wot, and fuel economy would be much appreciated. |
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