repower 23 cc inboard
 

just recieved a 79 23cc inboard with no motor or tranny. was looking to see if anyone has used a ford 302 with a borg warner 1.0-1trany if so what was the performance.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

I don't have any real world experience here but I would guess you'll get a high teens cruise and low to mid-20s WOT (knots). Not sure about fuel burn. If memory serves me correctly (and hopefully Fr. Frank will confirm), that engine was rated anywhere from 180 to 225hp depending on configuration so you're on the low end for power in this setup.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

My guess is the 302 with a 2-barrel carb is 190-200Hp.

most of the inboards have 350ci, 4-barrel for 260Hp resulting in 19knts cruise and 30knts WOT.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

A 350 is the minimum size I would put in a 23 inboard. A 302 just won't be enough, I'm thinking a 15 knot cruise and not much over 20knots WOT.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

gotta agree...no way...not enough...

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

The hulls are rated for 4-500 HP. 300+ HP is pretty much the minimum now that those kind of power ratings are readily available from the 350 block. The bigger blocks bring bring their own set of problems/challenges.

But the 350's are pretty straight forward these days, so why not do it. The hull will love you and your banker will love you. What could be better!

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

It depends on the power the Ford small block is putting out. A 302ci putting out 300hp is better than a 200 hp 350ci. The 302 Ford is a strong motor, properly set up.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

old saying my friend...

"there's no replacment for displacement"

a merc 350 magnum mpi - puts out 300hp,matched with a hurth/zf gear cost is approx $11k complete,drop it in...fresh water cooled,3yr warranty and a option for an extended warranty-parts readily available...

23' is alot for that ford engine to push-plus,1:1 gear ?

gonna cost a few bucks to get the same peformance with that 302...one thing i've never heard,is a boat owner complain of "too much power"...that engine trying to shove a 23' boat,full of fuel,and a couple of guys offshore,is gonna need to be ran almost full bore,and,with that small wheel-1:1 drive,that rig's gonna get passed by sea turtles,and,suck fuel like a jet...

that rig with that merc package-it's gonna give you great performance,as well as fuel efficiency-it's gonna push that rig at a real nice cruise speed-without laboring to put it on plane with a load...

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

With parts getting harder to find for the 302/351 your probably better off putting a 350 in there. The mounts and shaft may be another issue and you will need to look at re-propping it.

Torque is what you really want to measure not HP.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

The parts are a real consideration. And it's true that torque output is what puts you on plane. But don't disparage the small-block Ford. Most were 175-225 hp in cars and trucks, but the stock 302ci 210hp small block installed in the Ford Thunderbird in the mid 90's put out 290 ft-lbs of torque, compared with the 350ci 230hp motor of the same period by Chevrolet which produced only 265 ft-lbs of torque.

(Both the 302 Ford and 350 Chevrolet motors are capable of reliably producing 350-375hp and 350 ft-lbs of torque without wildly extravagant setups thanks to modern materials and electronics.

I must confess, however, after all of that, the the Chevy/GM motors do seem to be more durable.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Here is my 2 cents worth:
I have a 350-2V I'm guessing 230hp and it pushes me just fine. I cruise at 24mph/2.5mpg turning 3200rpm. It would be easy to get that hp out of a 302. I don't know about parts - my guess is you will pay more for Ford marine parts. Being a Ford fan I would do it.

I would not spend 11k to repower without SERIOUSLY considering a diesel - a nice Yanmar would be sweet!

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

if it's a 2v 5.7,it's 250hp...newer vortec engines...

diesel sounds good,but,with the expense of initial purchase,the gas engine's the way to go,actually cheaper to run...diesel new,with a gear is gonna be close to double the cost of that gas engine-it will take a life time to recoup the initial out lay...

ford engines-ford's been out of the marine biz,for quite a while-parts for ford marine engines are becoming more and more difficlt to obtain..

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

i was going to pick the boat up but with the snow now i don't know when this will happen.boat is up on the cape,motor is in another location.once i get boat down here
i will know more on exactly what i have and need. i have not seen the the boat in 6 years its been srink rapped and in garage since, family member needs room and asked if i wanted boat {knowing my love for a claasic 23} before he put it up for sale so he gave me tidle and said merry chrismas.
i think i will making the trip to the cape in a few weeks :

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

A gas 350 is still going to be your lowest cost option. The ford 351HO is a very nice motor and I put one in my 20ft shamrock 2 years ago. It replaced a tired old RWC 302.

If you have a little more budget I would look into diesel, it will be a higher cost but you won;t have to deal with any ethanol issues and get better MPG.
Just make sure you can swing the right size prop if you plan to up the HP/TQ or the additional power will be useless.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Talk about a score. Guys search for years sometime looking for a 23 CC inboard.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

I am repowering my seacraft 23 savage with a 330 hp fuel injected gas engine. I am hoping for a mid 20s cruise.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

you will get that.. :cool:

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

How hard is it to find a used yanmar?

I have bought "donation" boats in the past to get my paws on motors before so I am not opposed to that approach.

Is a used yanmar like a used suzi DF140? Where you can't get one because no one will give one up?

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

I have a 25' Sea vee inboard. In 2001 I repowered with a 300hp PCM 350HO carbed FWC engine. (eng. now going for 6500.00) I paired it to a Hurth 1.5-1 trans. Now with 1800hrs it has run flawlessly. 23kt at 10-11GPH loaded.
If u got the boat for free, you deserve worry free turn key
running. Spring for a new motor, u wont regret it.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

I got the same motor in the 1976 23' inboard I just bought last fall. I have not been able to run it yet so I don't have any numbers. I can't wait.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Tunamelt, Did you buy a new engine or did it come with the boat? What is the engine?

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

I bought the boat with the engine. The previous owner repowered it in the 06-07 winter. He put in a FWC Marine power 350-330hp and rebuilt the tranny.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

I had a 351 (233, 2 barrel) Ford in my 23', and changed out to a 350, 315HP carb (Marine Power)with a 1:1 Borg Warner (changed that out since I was in there, I also put in 4" spacers on the exhast manifolds. I get good fuel milege and wished I had changed out the tanks then but that was for the next year. The only thing I don't like is the newer motors require 650 RPM idle, which is a pain in the neck for slow trolling live baits.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

To slow down your troll, pull a sea-anchor/drogue about 30' behind you.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

On the great lakes most guys put out two sea anchors off the forward cleats. slows the troll, keeps the boat more stabil in a chop, and they are out of the way when you get a fish on.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

It this too small for 23? Plan would be engine in console then jackshaft from gears to one of those I/Os that just has the prop (i.e. no gearing in I/O). Would this fit on a SF20?

http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/boa/2179935092.html

Brand new leftover Ford (American Diesel) 139hp at 2600rpms with new BW 2.57:1 gear. 20k new Asking 12,500.00 781-837-5424

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

i think the results you would get with that set up,would be somewhat less,than what you would want...

i swapped a 23 inboard out,a few years ago,gas to diesel...i used a "41" series volvo-worked out well,very well-used the same set up in a 23 mako inboard-similar results.

with that:
why run a "jack shaft" ? if the boat's aleady set up as an inboard,i would think,it would be best to leave it that way...

i allways look at a repower as making the boat perform better,than it did originally.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Having gone throught this process already I would tend to follow Pelicans comments....he's on the money.

The 351 Ford was the original engine these boats came with...I know because I ripped one out of the 1975 I bought in original condition from the original owner. By the way, I doubt the 1:1 gear is going to get the job done.

These boats are heavy and tend to sit....anything less then 330 hp your going to regret unless you want a 16 cruise.

Get the 330 hp EFI/MPI bob tail package, FWC etc as Pelican already stated. To the extent you cheat down on the HP rating your gonna run at a higer RPM and burn the gas you thought you were saving...

The best your going to get (unless you over-prop like some )is about a cruise of about 21 at about 3200 depending on fuel load..these girls like to run in that sweet spot...great head sea boat.

Im running a 2001 MP 454 EFI at 330 hp and have no regrets...I like the torgue and hole shot I get...I have dual exhaust pipes on her though to handle the discharge.

If you can find a Yanmar or Cummins great...$22,000 new installed new when I priced it. I just rebuilt my 454.

Beware of outboard skiff-jock comments...this is a different animal. ;)

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

that $22k number,installed,that's a really good price !

complete 210hp 5.9 cummins,with zf gear is around $17-18k
$22k installed,and turn key,is a really good deal...

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Yeah I was close....very close....re-shafting and a few other modifications kept me from pulling the trigger...I was looking at the so-called Cummins (6 bt?) new "re-mans" before I re-built. I wanted the mechnanical Cummins over the electonic Yanmar....couple Yanmar jobs I saw with the 240...about $22,500 installed with gears, but not all-in.
One for sale down your way total refit last year or so.
I get most of my work down in South Jersey. Whos your diesel guy down there? :cool:

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

That's too small. It won't have the torque to get you on plane.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Diesel hp and gas hp ratings are not measured the same, diesel hp is rated at the shaft, thus, the hp rating isnt the same bro...a 240 hp diesel will push that boat at 25 cruise with ease..its been done, why would anyone put in $22,500 to not get up on plane while you can put in an equivalent gas 350 for half that.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Jeff,

Will the 5.9 Cummins fit in there? I have 2 370B's coming in any day from Cummins, but they are going in my Blackfin. Would be cool to know I could put one of these in the 23 as well with a lower hp rating.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Rather have a stout 3.9,4b cummins.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Huh?... HP is HP. HP is the same Diesel or Gas.

Horsepower = Engine Torque (Foot Lbs) x Engine Speed (RPM) then divide by 5252. That is how HP is measured. The TORQUE (ablility to rotate mass)of an engine is a huge component of the POWER of the engine.

Gas engines make their high HP DUE TO RPM.
Diesel engines make there HP DUE TO TORQUE.

Hence, a 180 HP Diesel provides the same Performance as an approx 250 HP gas engine does at low RPM aka Taking off and getting on a plane, but may not have the same great top end MPH performance.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

hey thanks.....thats correct....exactly the point..way to go.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Thus am I correct that the higher torque of the diesel enables it to turn a higher pitch prop, thus greater travel distance/revolution, thus higher speed for the diesel for the same RPM?

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Yes, you are correct. But with, say, only 2800-3000 rpms from a diesel, (depending on the motor) the top speed is affected.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

That is true that top speed could be affected, but who cares. Let's face it, these boats are not even close to being fast especially in today's standards. The most important thing for an inboard Seacraft is a solid economic cruise speed. Nothing will do this better than a diesel.

I would love to be able to cruise at 24-25 knots, but with a 350 gas motor, it will never happen on my boat.

Re: repower 23 cc inboard
 

Which is I guess why mosely preferred outboards on his race boats? To bring it full circle?

I am pretty sure I saw an article on one of those gofast boats, or an SKA hull, where they compared, as closely as possible, three different outboard options (like triple verado 250s, twin yami 350s, triple etec) versus diesel i/o with jackshaft. From what I recall, the diesel I/O was not that far off on top speed. Like maybe less than 10%? Where as MPG as cruise was like 2x or 3x... price was about the same.