Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

First- Hast to be quiet and 4 stroke. No exceptions.

I would use it as a 6MPH and under Marina/trolling motor and a get me home motor when the 1986, ~400 lb Yama 175 craps out. The Yamaha will be replaced by a 4 stroke 90 on a bracket in a year or two.

It looks like some 4 HP kickers are ~40 lbs, the 5-6Hp are 60 lbs. I think a 9.9 is too heavy? I have a 20 in transom cut, I think, and I am in some serious slop usually in and around Rhode Island and the Elizabeth Islands.

Any opinions on a 4 versus 6? I think a 100-120 lb 9.9 is too heavy.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

I have the same set up with a 400lb Merc - can't see any of that working out

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

The main factor kicker performance is torque, not horse power. 4 hp is plenty for a twenty if the motor swings a big, slow turning prop. I don't know any 4s that do that. I use a 8 hp Yamaha hi torque on my 25 seafari, its designed for sailboats, gets 5 knots at cruise into moderate wind and chop. My old 15 hp, with the biggest lowest pitch prop that would fit, would barely do 4.5 knots flat out in flat calm conditions on a smaller boat. That went down to zilch fast in wind and chop.

To my knowledge, the Yamaha 8 is the smallest hi torque moter out there. Its just under 100 lbs, pretty heavy for a 20.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

I used a '71 9.9 Chrysler as a kicker on my Seafari. Weighed 67 lbs on the bathroom scale. It would push me at about 6-7 mph at WOT and 4 mph at 75% power. I changed that for an '84 15hp Chrysler (Ward's SeaKing) at 73 lbs which gave me 11 mph at WOT, and 8 mph at 75% power. (See the pic below)
With my 375lb 90 Optimax on a 20" transom, I got tired of the water that would wash over the transom in a following sea and run down the cable boots, making the pumps cycle on and off nearly constantly.

I dearly love having a kicker. But I won't replace mine 'til I raise the transom to 30" and replace my motor again, which may be years given how well my Opti runs.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Connor's right - it's all about torque. Years ago Chrysler and Evinrude used to make "sail drive" models of about 6 hp similar to his Yamaha with lots of gear reduction and big slow turning props. Too bad they don't still make the old British Seagull. Very simple (some would say primitive) with exposed flywheel and gas tank (looked like a 1930's vintage outboard), no recoil starter, but very light (maybe 30 lbs) with LOTS of torque. Lots of brass and nickle and virtually indestructible. My neighbor had a 5 hp model, with a 5 blade prop about 10" diameter with about a 5" diameter hub and lots of gear reduction. With that thing on his dingy, he could TOW his 20 TON 42' Wheeler sedan cruiser! But I'm sure it wouldn't pass emissions laws and OSHA would go nuts with an exposed flywheel and starter rope!

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Based on the comments, I searched and these are available at defender.
http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/6_4st_spec.html
A Tohatsu SailPro.

Maybe that would work.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

So, just to complicate the issue, don't forget to factor in the hydrodynamics of the hull at displacement speed. Most of what I have to say here is from Dave Gerr's "The Nature Of Boats". But I've probably got some of it wrong because I loaned the book to someone who didn't retern it, so I can't check.

Every boat has a "hull speed", the most efficient speed for the hull to travel when it's in displacement mode. Hull speed is mostly determined by waterline length. When a boat moves in displacement mode it pushes a bow wave in front of it and drags a stern wave along behind it. This basically sets up a standing wave with a wavelength roughly the same as the waterline length of the boat.

The speed that waves move through water depends on their wavelength. Waves with long wavelengths travel faster than waves with short wavelengths. A short hull sets up a short standing wave that moves slowly. A longer boat sets up a longer standing wave that moves faster.

Hull speed is the speed at which the hull is in harmony with the speed its standing wave wants to travel. If you try to push the hull faster than hull speed, it tries to climb the bow wave and the bow of the boat rises. Because the boat is now trying to run up hill, it takes a lot more thrust to maintain this faster speed. Given enough thrust, the hull climbs over the bow wave and is then traveling at planing speeds.

So, in a nutshell, the kicker best suited for the boat is one that pushes it at hull speed while it is running at its most efficient RPM. Unfortunately, I have no idea what this is for a Seacraft 20.

Dave

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Having owned a 20 MA with a kicker (8hp Yamaha four stroke and then a 7.5hp Merc) and now an 18 with a 8hp Honda kicker, your problem is going to be the 20" transom. Both my 18 and 20ma had 25" transoms and I would take waves over transom. My motor is a lightweight 365lb Merc blackmax too.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

thats my point - the boat can't handle 500+ lbs plus somebody sitting back there driving - buy a good VHF radio and a Sea Tow membership or you need a bigger boat

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

I'm not familiar with the Tohatsu, but the pic doesn't look like a big prop. There is no substitute for surface area in applying power to the water at slow speeds; be a little skeptical. I'd try to find somebody using one on a boat similar to yours.

Connor

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Tohatsu is the same as Nissan.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Yep, Nissan motors are made for them by Tohatsu, which is about 14% owned by Nissan.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Don't forget flippers and water wings. If you break down in Buzzards Bay in the SW afternoon wind with a 20" transom and a heavy motor . . . You'll be calling the coast guard before seatow arrives.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Exactly.

So for the moment I need a light kicker. Ideally with remote steering

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

My 20' MA with a 408# 150 Merc. will keep your feet wet. Large console with 2 batteries inside. Unless you spend a LOT of time far offshore I would get Seatow. I understand and love the idea of self dependency but depend on maintenance, a strong radio and antenna, and Seatow.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Made up my mind. A tohatsu SailPro with a remote kit. I looked at one and the prop is big. With lots of area. Looks like a sunflower. With the remote I won't have to stand at the stern.

SeaTow/ Boats U.S. aren't nearly fast enough to save your bacon in the part of Buzzards Bay I frequent. The issue I run into is not as much whether or not I can get home, but if I flood a two stroke, I can be on rocks or have water over the transom from the standing waves from the current before I can get it re-lit.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Fish . . . do you have a splashwell gate? If not you can make a good one pretty inexpensively with PVC Tuff Board. Just make sure your entire splashwell is water tight, and the bottom 6 - 8" of the gate is sealed with 4200 and screws. When my 18 is loaded up with Ice, fish, 8hp Honda kicker, and a full 48 gallons of fuel . . . Splashwell scuppers are under and there is 2" of water in the splashwell. Make sure your bilge inspection hatch is water tight and that you have 2 pumps with float switches. Keeping the bow heavy also lifts the stern.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

You do have to have a splashwell, I have one that is removeable, don't use it much unless I go offshore but a must have in that kind of water. I agree with shrimpin

The problem I see that putting kicker on will cause you to have water coming in all the time unless under power. I guess if you troll all the time thats OK

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

So the plan is a 60 lb kicker with remote controls. Steering will be tied to the 390 lb 2 stroke Yamaha back there. Tohatsu makes a control box so I can pilot from the center console without having to steer from the stern. Not perfect, but better than steering from the transom.

I also plan to use plastic tanks in the head area of the center console for better weight distribution.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

Picked it up today. Will take pics if anyone is interested.

Re: Kicker power versus weight on a Master Angler 20
 

yep