Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

After reading through the recent post about the Seacraft sinking, I decided that I needed to rig a dual-bilge pump system in my boat(which I should, hopefully, be getting this weekend).

It seems that the consensus was two bilge pumps, wired to separate power sources at the battery switch and set at different heights, with one as a back-up. Also having each bilge pump the water out it's own side of the boat, so that you would have a visual warning if your primary failed.
In addition to two bilge pumps it was also recommended to rig a high water alarm.

After a lot of searching on the internet it seems that the Johnson pumps are the next best thing after Rules(which according to the Martha's Vineyard thread are now Made in China garbage).

I also found these came highly recommended on another site: http://www.wemausa.com/switches/

Right now I'm thinking on going with two Johnson 2200GPH pumps, and getting the rest of the hardware from that site.

What do you guys think?

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

Something like this came up a little while ago on THT. GO without using a float switch if you can. The highwater alarm is what see on big commercial boats and thats what will be in my boat.

Just an FYI: I put Johnson over Rule any day. I run 2 of their 'big' pumps.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-...ter-alarm.html

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

An electronic switch? Water Witch seems to be the best one.

I found this thread on another forum regarding bilge pumps: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...-switch-2.html

the first post at the top of the page has what seems like good advice. He recommends using an electronic switch and running it to an automotive relay to prevent a short circuit.

Another article I read suggested using a smaller pump as the primary, and then mounting a larger pump higher, to handle emergencies. I was thinking about also wiring in a buzzer to this larger pump.

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

I run two switches and pumps. Not sure where the info on Rule is coming (I think they moved to Mexico) but from what I have seen, it doesn't matter what pump you put in, they all go bad at some point and Rule seems to hang in there with the rest, most of the time, space dictates what goes in.
What I do care about is the switches, I use Ultra Safety System switches, they come in 3 different configs, one config has a built in high water alarm, the swicthes are expensive, but they last, and the last thing I want to do is root around some bilge every year.
I also run two different size pumps, mount same height, the smaller one handles the everyday load, then the bigger one kicks in if need be, you replace the smaller one more often and is cheaper. Just make sure the smaller pump is 1100gph and has an 1 1/8 discharge. Besides, if all goes to hell in a hand basket, there is not much difference between 3000 gph or 4000. You take on that much water, you're going down anyway.
Wire each pump (seperatly) on the auto side directly to each battery on the switch (with a fuse), and the maunal side to switches on the dash.
I am not fond of anything automotive on boats, and auto reset relays or push breakers are worse, there is no way of shutting things down if they short circuit other than disconnecting them.

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

One other note.
Why mount one pump higher? If you have that much water that the lower pump can't handle, and you need the second pump, when (if) the first (lower) pump fails, then you have that much extra water to deal with. If you want that scenerio, then you need three (3) pumps, which means you need a bigger boat. :D Just my 2c.

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

one pump higher than the other applies to auto pumps, if they were both std./manual pumps then both in the same area with float switches at different heights in the bilge so you're only using the smaller pump to get the little bit of water out if you happen to have a wet bilge - save your battery.

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

The reason mine are a differnt heights is the main pump, 1500gph with standard float switch, is just off the bottom of the hull and the float swith is mounted on an angled block to keep it parallel to the water line, plus both are as low in the hull as possible. The second pump is an 1100 gph automatic pump which is again mounted on an angled block to keep the pump parallel to the water. Due to room issues it's about 1" to 1.5" higher. So bottom line....if both pumps are pumping out water for an extended time I'm in deep poop.

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

Let me clarify. By higher, I meant 6" or a ft apart or so. 1 1/2" won't make a difference with weight, but on large vessels such as ours, space is everything!! :)

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

I agree......6" means you probably have WAY too much water already in the bilge when the second pump kicks on. Plus when it does kick on it's only going to pump down to the original six inches of water left in the bilge. Oh yeah, in my opinion never use the cheap plastic ribbed flex hose. This is where you pay the extra for the reinforced good smooth stuff!!!

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

Good discussion here.

I cut out my in deck well and can sit in my bilge. {insert slam here}

When I put new bronze thru hulls in the transom, I was going to fill the two 1 1/8" deals for the well. Then I thought they might save my bacon one day if I still had power. I have them plugged in and out.

I also keep forgetting to pick up some nerf balls and Gorilla tape. Nerf balls can make all kinds plug sizes if things go south.

I did pick up a PLB this summah. Hope it gets good and dusty before I have to get a new battery.

Cheers,
GFS

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

I ended up going with the following set up:

Shurflo 1000GPH(Primary)
Water Witch Electronic Switch(standard model)
Johnson 2200(Backup)
Water Witch Dual output, second sensor turns on high water alarm. Below is a pic. I had to fabricate a mount for the Johnson pump, since the screw holes were in the bottom of the pump filter and I didn't want to screw it into the hull itself.

I know the back-up switch is a little high right now, I will probably bring it down a little bit.

I also got non-corrugated hose(holy $$$ batman!) which will go in after I finish repairing the gunnels and drill another hole for the second thru-hull fitting.

A huge thanks to Dennis(Bushwacker) for all the advice!

Any feedback or comments are more than welcome.

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/...rlec/Bilge.jpg

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

thats pretty much how i put the pumps in my boats. i have an 1100 on a float switch and an auxillary 2000 pump on wired to an on/off switch just in case, thats in the 20 sc. the 23 tender i have 2 2000 one with a float switch and one wired on/off. both are mounted to a piece of starboard and that is siliconed to the bottom on the boat.
your right that good hose is expensive but worth it.

Re: Ideal Dual-Bilge set up for 20' Seafari
 

automotive heater hose, costs less, very good quality. :D

I am planning on two Rule #43 dash switches, one per pump- they have indicator lights. Because I have a dual battery system, I don't see why I should wire one to one battery and one to another. If I forget to swap from one battery to the other when charging, then I could lose one source of power for a bilge pump, but the manual switch can swap batteries anytime. It does mean that if the 300? amp switch dies, then I am stuck on one battery or worse. But that seems very very unlikely. Plus I have two alternators, one on the main, one on the kicker, so if the engine is running, then I should be good there, even if the battery is toast, but not a dead short.

I am about to cut the dash insert, so if there is some huge reason why I shouldn't have two switches for two pumps, I want to know. :D

I just had to replace my pump I went with a big rule. I've got a float switch and a seperate source dash switch and if either turns on the pump I have a red dash light to let me know
I should have a second pump. I dont have a lot of room in the back for one
Boat is out the the water at home so I'm not to worried

For the Seafari you might want to consider mounting one of your pumps well forward near the keelson under the cuddy - somewhere between the bulkhead and the starboard storage well. It's a low point.

Like others I don't see the point in the varying mounting levels.

I have no problem with Rule. I have 2 of them in each boat. Nothing is foolproof. Poor wiring, fusing and battery management are more conducive to sinking than any particular brand of pump.

If you have a mooring or a slip, and choose a cycling pump mode, keep your boat attached to a power source -solar, electric, whatever. Most recreational boats sink while tied up in storms

I maintain a few boats at work. Rule has gone very downhill in the last few years. I am slowly moving everything to Johnson. But I have had Johnsons go bad too. Just not as fast as Rule pumps lately.

In the defense of Rule the ones on my 18 SF are good to go after 3 years.

Take notice on the new Rules....assembled in Mexico.

I maintain a small fleet of boats, six small whalers, a couple RIBs and 3 inboard boats in the 26' to 31' range. I concur that Rule has takin a turn for the worse, especially in the smaller sizes. The large pumps on the big boats are many years old, but we wind up replace those damn auto 500 gpm pumps in the whalers almost yearly.

2nd that. And the 750 gph. I am "Collecting" a few to send to rule. I should post a picture of the pile before I box it up.