corrosion and torches
 

Hi all,

Well I`m stuck. Literally.

`96 rude 150 Fast track trim and tilt assy.

The motor failed and I am trying to remove the unit.

Two weeks of various penetrants and banging with a 3 lb. sledge and a brass drift have been fruitless.

Put an air hammer on it today and got the lower pin to break free from the transom bracket collars. The center tube is holding fast.

Not mine, but here`s a pic.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-200-hp-...item2568c8e588

There is a 1 in. shaft that goes through the casting at the bottom of the hyd. manifold.
Lots of white corrosion in there.

Mapp gas burns 300 F hotter than O/E but then you have the pressure advantage of a pro torch which I don`t own.

So,
Any thoughts?

Cheers,
GFS

Sandy. I feel your pain.....:mad:
Trailer the Slacker on up and we will
rose bud the sucker!!! ;)

You know it is only 2.5 hrs of windshield time up!!

Let me know.

Little heat, little Aero Kroil, over and over and over...... it'll wick it up eventually enough to get it moving......a lot of the time you can replace the motor without removing the whole assembly. Just put the engine up on the trailering arm and undo the top pin on the ram, undo the two hydraulic lines and swing it down and try to sneak the motor out. I realize you may have the same kind of corrosion problems with getting the motor out, it's just a suggestion that's worth looking at.

Thanks for the inside scoop, but I want to pull it out and rebuild it.

Am I wrong in my thinking?

I think if i can rebuild the seals, I can go hunting no?

Chick Chick
{sound of pump}

Thanks,
GFS

Just my thoughts feel free to do as ya see fit, I know what ya mean. You could also take a spanner wrench to everything that unscrews while its on the transom and just bring it to a hydraulic shop and have them put much nicer and cheaper seals and wipers.

Would a hydraulic shop have better scrapers? Seal kit was 72 clams....

I want to paint it while it is out and have a feeling the screws on the motor are going to be a challenge.

Thanks all for the thoughts and ideas.

Ken, thanks for the offer.

Sore shoulder,
GFS

So the pin is free of the side pieces, and now is stuck in the cyliner eye right? You have to pull the motor off the boat to get to it. Roll it over (on a stand) so your looking at the part that would sit against the transom and start heating it. Heat, oil, Heat, oil, repeat about 200X. Then beat the Pi$$ outa it. If it still wont come out, hit it harder. We had the same problem with josh's (oilfieldman)150 earlier this year. If the motor has sat for a long time its all done. Just plan on buying a new one I would be surprised if the bores where the seals ride arnt scored up and pitted.

No need to pull the motah.

I want to take it off so I can do things my way. Prep and paint the bracket and t+t.

Remove all white crust from their lairs. Tef Gel the shafts.

I see issues with the motah screws. I can punch the center of the phillips to help break the
bond. The screws are not painted after assy. I would like to paint it after the rebuild. The corrosion starts there and where the trailer bracket hits.

After all this pounding, I have been shocked. The paint fell of the motah revealing a gash to the armature. Oh the horror.

If you see any corrosion, it will remind you of an old Benz.

By the time you see it, it is toast.

Pics will follow at the end of the rainbow,
GFS

Picked up a Mapp gas torch.

Bushwacker provided me with the Kroil. Thanks Denny. He always is exposing me to better ideas and products. Read his posts. Don`t you wish he was in your back yard?

With the net, we all are now.

Here`s my new and improved thinking.

Drill some holes at 30 degrees through the center section to the top of the shaft. Add Kroil.
Heat. Repeat. Heat. Re Pete.

I have only propane time. Heat the beast back and forth with the flame?

Concentrate on one Place/hole at a time?

Thanks to workin progress too,
GFS
So true about boats.

You know to heat the eye and not the shaft, right? Wet rags on the shaft to cool it, while you heat the eye. The differences in temperatures and thermal expansion coefficients break the two free of each other.

You know Sandy.....I'm kinda enjoying your little T & T issue!!! Not because I'm happy you are in this pickle, but because I've been there many times and reading how you're attacking the problem brings back such, shall we say, fond memories!! ;) Remember the bigger hammer suggestion??, be sure your friend with the sledge hammer has good eye sight and strikes just the punch you are holding........

Thanks. You and your brother Fish Shrinker need to come down for Snook season. That 4 inch window has got to go.

I thought about heating the shaft first to try to get it to expand and crush some white nasties and then going more traditional.

Yeah Don,
The thinking is half the fun. I have a handy snap on holder for the punch. Gotta dress is as it is mushrooming pretty severely. I missed the mullet run which is disappointing.

Cheers,
GFS

3 cycles of heat and wait today. Drilled to the shaft. Filled w/ Kroil and boiled.

All thoughts are welcome.

This is quite the challenge.

Cheers,
GFS

Persistence, patience, and determination.
You'll win.

Got it moving about 3/8" back and forth today. I just went out for one last go and it locked up. She is wicking lots of Kroil. May have to get Bushwacker a new can.

I think the white nasties are eating too much Kroil food and expanding. Keep eating. I`ll melt that witch before the movie ends.

Now that the collars are free, I am back to thinking about drilling, tapping, and a slide hammer.

Is it more heat, or cycles?

Both?

Still working on that patience thing,
GFS

Time.....ever have really bad brake bleeders on a car? Sometimes you soak them for a week before you plan on messing with them. Now add saltwater, lol.

It's a teetering act, you want the heat it for expansion and contraction but not so much that the penetrant burns off. I'm sure it's really tight and powdered up with corrosion. Try maybe, OMC/BRP 6&1, Zep -45, Seafoam Deep Creep, but Kroil is pretty much the best. Just keep working it, slowly but surely.

Patience is a virtue,
GFS

corrosion and torches
 

Sandy,

Getting that much movement is significant progress! It means the primary seizure area has broken loose, so the Kroil did it's work. Sounds like you've now got a secondary seizure trying to drive the corroded shaft thru the previously seized area. Patience is key! Don't want to screw it up after you got this far! Is there any way you can rotate that shaft? If you could rotate it maybe that would knock off some of the corrosion that has increased the diameter of that section of the shaft. Like the idea of drill and tap, provided the steel in that shaft isn't too hard, since that might allow you to turn the shaft! I'd opt for fine threads(more cross-section and strength/torque capacity) and use an SAE grade 8 bolt (6 hash marks on the bolt head, good for 150,000 psi min tensile strength; grade 6 (4 hash marks) is good for 133 ksi; grade 5 (3 hash marks) will take 105 ksi; grade 1 or 2 (no marks) is only good for 64 ksi, so you lose a LOT of strength going with a cheap bolt! Worst case scenario is the bolt is stronger than the shaft, so it'd strip out the threads you tapped into shaft. In that case, you would then have a good pilot hole to just drill out the shaft. However, one thing you DON'T want to do is break off a grade 8 bolt inside the shaft! Call me and I can give you the torque specs for what ever size and grade of bolt you use. I'd go with the largest size bolt that will fit, maybe a 3/8 or 7/16. Denny

Being patient,
GFS

heres my two cents I went through it with my 1985 T+T.

If you let it soak after heating the teflon bushing in the hydraulic piston eye cools back down and melts to the to the hydraulic pin adding more friction. I'd hit it hot. My experience was with this after only using a coleman propane torch that I use to heat, heat shrink for wiring. And your using map gas. After hours of beating that teflon peice out, it was good on the outside, melted on the inside. With all the hours your planning on putting into this, it may be easier/cheaper to buy a rebuilt one and paint it.

Me and wildman got the pin out of mine with heat and pb blaster as a cooling medium for the pin, heating spraying the pin only the pin with pb, and using a drift pin to bash it out.

Boy,
This is a challenge indeed.

Still.
A deer with no legs.

Cheers,
GFS

Here, the weekend is staring me squarely in the face.

The folks at BRP live in fresh water. No knock. Just a great place to buy old boats.

She`s been soaked for a week and due for a good pounding.

Easy there folks,
GFS

I had asked the fine folks @ BRP if the shaft was removed from one side or the other. IE was there a taper or shoulder. They said no shoulder. This is the first time, out of many, that they were incorrect. I`ll let them know so they can help others.

I picked up a 8 1/2" c clamp from tool town and got her to move again with heat and Kroil.

I was attacking it from Stbd. because of the swim platform. I thought I may have buggered up the port side because of the tough access.

I got her to move again, but she still wouldn`t let go. I was running out of light and gas when I decided to hit it one more time with the air hammer from the port side.

Using a socket in the collar to keep it centered, I cranked it up to 135 psi and went to town. What is this I see? Movement? I leaned harder on my shoulder and my hip.

I am enjoying a very cold beverage. Now to the upper shaft.

I took pics and will start a new thread at the end for the Library Of Slackers.

Cheers,
GFS

BRP was correct. Now that I really look at the shaft it is clear that I expanded it.

Looks like I`ll have to clean out the circlip races as well.

Details.

I hope the cylinders are ok. No leaks but the scrapers are expanding.

Will a hydraulic shop have better scrapers?. BRP asked me how long mine lasted.

Thx,
GFS

Hydraulic shop's should offer better, should be cheaper.

Thanks,
It feels nice to sit here now.

Thx,
GFS