23' Transom Advice Request
 

I am hoping to tap into the considerable talent of the membership here and thank you in advance to anyone responding. I have a 1978 23' Sceptre I/O (some pictures are in the gallery section under "Chris Downey's 23 Sceptre" (thanks to Trayder) which finally needs a new transom. I am kicking myself that I did not recognize this last fall before I winterized the boat and could have had the work done over the off-season, duh.

I'm seeking input/advice from those in the know on this site. Thanks to the incredible contributions many have made here over the years, I've become something of an "armchair" mechanic/restorer but will have to have the work done professionally due to lack of time and skills (though will attempt to do what I can without screwing it up or getting in the way).

My thought on the right way to do this is from the inside of the transom vs. outside. I am de-rigging the transom and having the engine block pulled now. My thoughts are to do the following for the actual transom replacement:
1. remove interior fiberglass skin, leaving a "lip",or flange around the perimeter approx. 3"
2. remove/grind out the existing core (rotten plywood) and prep the surfaces (degrease/
clean/grind/sand)
3. replace core with Coosa Bluewater 26 panels instead of marine plywood
4. have the whole job performed with epoxy vs. polyester or vinylester
5. I have no real idea of what type of glass or lay-up schedule should be used
5. by having the replacement done from the interior, I am assuming a stronger transom
repair can be achieved by being able to "wrap" the new glass forward on the interior
hullsides, bottom and stringers - a side benefit would be relatively little fairing and
cosmetic work at the end of the process compared to doing this from the outside

One question for those that have done a 23' transom from the inside, is there enough room between the transom and the aft bulkhead of the cockpit liner (approx. 16") to allow this to be done? Also, to allow access, could the gunwale/cap be cut just forward of the hawse pipes for the stern cleats and removed from the stern area to allow better access and working room, then be re-installed and the cut re-glassed and faired with no loss of strength to the cap?

My goals are to have the job done right, with the best materials for the application, and to make it as strong as possible; while the boat will remain I/O for now, there is the possibility of converting to bracketed outboards in the future. I'm sure there is a lot I'm missing and again, thanks in advance for any input here.

Thank you,
Chris

Chris that is an excellent plan! That is exactly how I plan to redo my transom when the time comes (probably Fall of 2012 maybe 2013) I think transom replacement from the "inside" is definately the way to go. More labor & expensive, but over the long haul it's worth it. Especially with your boat's lineage and family history. I'll sure you plan on keeping it in the family for a long time. I also think you should seroiusly consider the solid transom/bracket/outboard concept. You would gain extra room in the boat, increased performance and reliability. Put a 300hp Yamaha V-6 4 stroke on that baby and you will be all set for another 10 years. Of course it's easiler to spend some one else's money, but that would be my dream concept of restoration.

Jim

"Of course it's easiler to spend some one else's money"

Amen Jim!!! I can think of a million great ideas for someone else's boat using their money.

Chris-

I have not looked into our Tsunami but I'm fairly sure that you could cut the cap and remove it to replace the transom. See the beer can in the picture on the right just aft of Bucks hand? Cut there, remove the rub rail, drill out the rivets and pop off the cap. The cap can then be glassed back in place and your good to go. Personally I dont like doing the transom from the out side as it is a lot of work fairing it out. In the long run I think it is easier, faster, and as you eluded maybe even a little "stronger" to do it from the inside. We are going to be restoring out 23 Tsunami very soon!

Strick

Chris

Look at my '78 transom redo in the photo section. I'm not a glass guru at all but even thou it's an outboard, The pics will give you a idea of the transom from the inside and cutting the cap like Strick recommends. The 16" wrap space should be sufficient.
Good luck with your redo ;)

Do it from the inside. Take my advice. Just finished mine and would never do it again from the outside.

77, Strick, Chuck, Entourage, thanks very much for the replies and confirming my suspicions. Don, I appreciate the advice on spending other peoples money - I have been pretty good at it myself ;)

Still open to any more advice and criticism.
Thanks,
Chris

i removed the hawse plate and made my cut in the center of the hole.

Peter Alarie's repair notes are here: I bookmarked them for when I do my transom.
http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...=taper+transom

a link to his work: http://www.classicseacraft.com/peter...220/index.html

I hope kneedeep doesn't mind me posting a link to his link to his photobucket page of his well documented transom work.
http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...592#post190592

But you should check out the links on using seacast. That way you keep both inner and outer skins. Seems like a really great idea. New, but great.
http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...ad.php?t=23537


I haven't done it, but it seems like removing the outer skin offers easier access and you keep the original fiber reinforcement path from stringer to inner skin that way. It seems difficult (to me) to maintain this integrity if you remove the inner skin unless you grind away a lot of the inner hull and stringer surfaces to create a long wide patch from the inner transom skin to stringers and hull.

To me, the outer skin of the transom seems much less structural than the inner.

With either approach, I would reinforce the upper hull side to inner transom skin with more layers of glass, just to keep the gelcoat from cracking where the thin upper hull (just below the cap) intersects the stiff transom.

Obviously, there are more than a few knowledgeable people on the list who have actually repaired a transom and/or added and built brackets, and so far, my opinions are just opinions when it comes to transom repair.

Looks like a great plan, the only thing I am wondering about is the 3 inch lip your planning to leave on the inside. I am thinking you will end up cutting it all out and retabbing it to the hull and glassing everything back in if you follow me. Maybe not..... either way take some pics, mines not getting any better...... :(

I guess that's what forums are for, opinions!! :-)
My opinion differs from the rest, but mostly for one reason. It depends on what your are doing with the hull, if you are painting or gelcoating it, I think it is easier to do from the outside. JMHO. None of this matters much because you aren't doing the work, I think it is easier to work standing up on the outside of a boat. :-) It may be cheaper that way. Comes down to what the guy who is doing the work is comfortable with.
As for the rest of the stuff, materials, etc, looks good.
I'm an outboard guy myself, plus I like to spend O.P.M, so that is what I would do.
Good luck and keep us posted!

If you say it is easier doing it from the outside, i guess you mean you would be reusing the old skin you take off right. Because if you are going to lay up all new glass and fair it in on the outside i would definately have to beg to differ with you. The reason why i ask is i just did mine and i thought just like you, and started from the outside but ran into some issues from the guy who did it before and had to do both inside and out. So i had the best of both worlds and i feel i should have just stayed on the inside anyhow.

Chris,I'm not an expert glass guy,but I had help from a friend who is.I had some experience with it from other small restorations I did but his help was invaluable.

I did the transom on my 74 Tsunami I/O from the inside,and imo I think it's the best(although most difficult)way to do it.I'm just not comfortable cutting the outside skin off as I think there is a chance of comprimizing the integrity of the hull.
I removed the transom cap by cutting across the gunwales in the center of the hawse pipe sleeves that are located just forward of the.
After removing the rub rail and screws that hold the cap to the hull, from the stern and up to the cut i made at the gunwales, I lifted the transom cap off.I then cut the inner rear panel that goes from the cap to the deck leaving about a 3" lip across the deck.

This exposes the entire inner surface of the transom and bilge and engine beds,making it easy to work on.
I removed the entire inner transom skin right to the sides of the hull,i didn't leave any lip.I removed all the rotted core(peat moss),to the glass surface and ground the glass with some 36 grit and applied two layers of 1708 to the skin.(I was surprised how thin the orig.skin was).
I also had to remove the rotted engine beds and rotted scupper blocks.

I went with marine plywood,cut it to fit,and thickened up some System Three epoxy,spread it onto the new transom face and transom skin with a notched trowel and clamped it and fastened it into place.
Once it was cured,I put a nice fillet around the edges and laid up the new inner skin with a few layers of 1708,extending the fabic way out onto the sides and tabbed into the new end of the box stringers.I switched over to polyester with all this work,as the two resin systems never came into contact,and (for me at least)I find it so much easier to wet out the fabric with polyester and money was an issue.I know that epoxy is stronger and has a better secondary bond,but I'm confident that I'll be long gone befor this ever needs to be done again.

After all was done,I replaced the rear panel,the transom cap,and glassed it all back together.Cant tell that it was ever touched.

Here's a few pictures in no particular order.

** OLD BILGE**

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_0892.jpg

** REMOVING THE ROTTED CORE

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_0962.jpg

**BEEFED UP OUTER SKIN

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_0987.jpg

** INSTALLING NEW TRANSOM

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_1096.jpg

** GLASSING IN THE TRANSOM,AND TIEING INTO THE BOX STRINGERS

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_0985.jpg

** RESTORED CAP BAIT WELLS WILL BE ELIMINATED

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_1017.jpg

** FINISHED TRASNSOM, ENGINE BEDS TIED IN,ALL GELCOATED /BILGE ETC.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_1209.jpg

** ALL GLASSED AND PAINTED NEW ENGINE INSTALLED

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/easy2/IMG_1548.jpg

Here ya go we have a "winner".

My apologies to all that have replied for not thanking you all sooner, but have been having computer issues.

Wow is all I can say; the information provided here is phenomenal and the pictures a huge help. I think I've got a very good idea on how I'm going to approach this. To help return the favors, I will document the process (which hopefully will begin soon) with pictures and post them on the site. Thank you again to all who have replied here and BigEasy, the above pictures really tell all. I reserve the right to come back here for help when I inevitably run into a problem.

Dont be afraid to take some pics of your seating arrangement and some measurments if your bored. ;)

Floorboy,

I should be at the boat over the weekend; happy to oblige and pictures no problem but what measurements are you looking for specifically?

Hey Chris was looking at the photos of you boat and was wondering why your water line in the rear was lower than normal. Then i looked at what you had for power and that answered my question. Big dog in there ha. Yehaaaa