Transom rebuild outsid skin bad
 

Well i'll need some input on this one. I've done a few transomes from the inside but thats with keeping the outside skin in tact, tha shape, finish and integredy intact. This is dfifferent for me. The inside skin is good and intact. The core is gone obviously. It was saturated and froze so it split the outside glass, eeks. My concern is getting it back to shape and getting it blended into the sides and bottom with the correct strength. Should i leave the inside and gut out the core from the outside? Then adhere the new core to the inside skin and then glass the outside to the core? Or remove both skins and sttart from the outside and work in? Maybe leave a 2" section of the inside skin? Just thinking about tabbing the outside new skin to the inside of sides and inside of bottom for strength before adding the core. Core being Marine ply. Any pro input will be helpful. Not a professional fiberglasser for sure but have done a few projects. Transom outside replacement is new to me, thanks. I have some scary pics to put up to see what i mean. Shame the rest of the boat is solid. see pics.

Yeow! :o

Hermco, haha that was my reaction too. Must be why i bought the boat right huh? Oh well i've seen worse on here with complete transoms cut right out. it's a saver. One way or another.

Here is mine I started from the inside and worked my way out. Was not planned that way though

Nice build threads Entourage and fdheld, thanks but both jobs you were able to leave a small lip around the outside edge to keep the form and strength. Mine is cracked right to the corner so it makes it more of a challenge to me. The corners are the strength and form so to redo the corners the right way is where i need some pointers/steps before i hack the inside away, maybe i should leave it intact. But if i do that i wont be able to tab the outside new skin very far into the sides or bottom for strength. Actually yours Entourage is pretty close to flush at the bottom isn't it.

That looks like a perfect example of how NOT to rebuild a transom.

Forum member Shine rebuilt an Aquasport 222 flat back a while ago. He had a very interesting approach to his transom rebuild. He used a sheet of melamine board as an outer form to lay up his outer skin and then laminated his core from the inside. If I was in your shoes, that's what I would do. His build thread on Boat Builder Central.com was converted to a tutorial here:

http://boatbuildercentral.com/howto/aquasport/index.php

The transom rebuild is on the first couple pages. If you go that way, you'll want to use a good mold release on your form. And personally, I wouldn't use his approach with anything less than epoxy resin. Polyester might work, but the superior secondary bond of epoxy would make me a lot more comfortable.
Dave

Boat is obviously un-fixable, I will be glad to save you the trouble and dispose of it for you. :D

Something does not look right. In photo #2 it looks like a skin was placed over the original transom. The old transom appears to be peeking out from under the transom skin.
Or is that my eyes playing tricks on me.

Agree. I dont think there was matt used in the original layup. Seems my old 20 was all roving. Is this a previous (wicked poor) repair that failed?

Has to be. On all the years I've been on this board I have never seen a seacraft transom look so terrible. :) I dont think that is possible with a factory built seacraft.

hiliner- Don is heading to Fiji and need a good boat once he gets there. You may want to give it to him in trade for something like a bracket :) You are in for a lot of work

strick

Don...your moving to Fiji or just going on a vacation????!!!!
:confused:
-Fred

Ha Ha, I'll have to disagree, nice try :p Looks like just matt in the pic huh? We'll find out when i tear into it. Thanks Blue for that info/link. You guys are a hoot. love this forum. :D

outside skin samples / thickness pics
 

You guys are right, no woven just a few layers of matt. And the thickness is about 1/4" as in the pic compared to the pencil. Anyone ever had the transom outer skin apart on a Moesly? I think this boat is a real early one. I can't tell if the transom has been redone for sure but it doesn't look so if i had to guess. Still working on the year of it.

Yes very close on the bottom I overlapped at bottom of keel about 8 inches.

So you wrapped around and adhered to hull bottom. Didn't that make like a hump at the end of the bottom? or did you pre grind it out?

Funny guy!
 

Your not getting my Moesly Seafari, will post in general why we believe it's a Moesly. :D :D :D

Oh yeah, Fiji just as soon as I win the lottery. :rolleyes:

:D

Mr Moesly used to run around the factory and drill holes in new boats just to double check hull thickness. Or so the story goes. No way he let a Seafari go out with a transom laid up with 2 layers of mat and no structural glass.

Rip it all out and fix it :).

.....and post lots of pictures !

Regardless whether it's a Moesly or a Potter, the original transom would have been alternating layers of mat and roving. That's definitely not the original outer skin. Only an inexperienced and poorly informed amateur would use an all mat layup on a transom laminate.
Dave

Had to grind all the gelcoat off and put in a notch where the 8 inch tab in was made.. When i was done i grinded down so it was flush with the rest of the boat. Used a long straight edge to make sure it was true to the rest of the hull.

How many layerd tab? Roven? roven/cloth or? I was wondering what would contour around the strake steps or just split it at the strake step up?

Cut it all off, extend it 3 ft, and then it will be a perfect boat. :D
Wish I had done it to mine.

Ha ha not that ambitious to reinvent the wheel. Although i wish they made and i had a 23 Seafari. This hull would be to narrow at 23' IMO. I'll be looking for a project 25 Seafari though. The California and Keys ones were way to far away. Gonna get this 20 on the water first, god willing. :) Blue and Hermit I agree dont like just the matt like that either. Thanks

So I guess the one for sale in Honolulu is out of the question?

I split it at the strake step, I used 1708 biaxle, combo of mat and cloth type roven, 3 layers. The 1708 is very stiff and very hard to use even when really soaked with resin. But extremely strong.

transom pic
 

Here's were i pulled some samples off the skin today to find that it was only matt.

I agree, that's not the original transom, it's a lousy repair job! Look at the first picture and you'll see that the core didn't even follow the contour of the bottom. If those big gaps were filled with water, it's easy to see how a freeze would have busted through that weak mat! Here's the original laminate schedule thats described on page 2 of the 1969 Boating magazine test of the 20' Seafari:

1. 2 layers of 1 oz. mat against the gel coat (to prevent print through of the roving in gel coat.)
2. one layer of 18 oz. roving.
3. 4 more alternating layers of 1 oz. mat and 18 oz. roving, for a total of 7 layers of glass, and .221" total thickness.
4. Additional lay-ups in highly stressed areas bring thickness up to about 0.345".
5. Bottom is stiffened by 4 pre-molded fiberglass inverted U-section stringers located in way of bottom jogs. Stringers backed by 4 alternate layers of 1 oz. mat and 18 oz. roving and taped in place with similar layup.

If you look at the sketch on the last page of that Boating Magazine article in the Literature section, it clearly shows how the stringers were taped in with 4 additional alternating layers of mat and roving. The thickness distribution in the bottom design is a brilliant use of material from a stiffness perspective . . . the hull is naturally very stiff at the vertical steps, but having a stiff section with a thin section on either side of it would be asking for trouble. So Moesly straddled that vertical step with a VERY tall (and stiff) stringer, so what you have is a stiff section supported by a much stiffer section on either side of it! Then in between the stringers, there a couple more 0.345" thick "mini-stringers" created by the overlap of the 4 extra layers of material where the big stringers are taped in to the hull. The very stiff area of the stringers is then surrounded by material that's over 50% thicker than the nominal hull thickness.

The thinking that went into this design is typical of that seen in the aerospace business, where everything must be very strong but extremely light . . . wait a minute, that's how race boats are built too!

Here is something to think about...just materials etc. epoxy glass and fairing I have spent way over 5k. Plus a lot of time...I see this boat as being in the same category so make sure it is the one you want or bail now...Just say'n

Whats not to want. It's a Moesly Seacraft haha Yeah i hear ya. Anthing done to it will increase the vaue anyway. I'm a sucker for saving classics anyway. I'm going to clean it up to make it usable. Transome, paint, repower, tlc. The decks and stringers are good so it's not so bad. Your boats worth sinking 10k into, those 21s rule! Wanna trade? :D

Lil help?
 

Ok got the sefari off the transport trailer and on to it's own with it overhanging room to work transom. Now i have a Seacraft question. Upon transom inspection mine is a flat across from port to strb. Where i'm told this transom has been redone before I would like to make sure this is the way it's suppose to be or do the original transoms have a curvature to them from port to strb.? I have no way to tell or compare to another Seafari.

Originally flat.

removed some transom to stringers
 

Thanks Hermco, that makes it a little easier. Removed a portion of the transom today. It's like opening up a time capsul, haha. I found two copper ring nails through the transom with the head just inside the inner skin facing out. May have held a template or something. Also confirmed a 4 stringer hull. :D See Pics The filler in the gaps at the strakes between the plywood and strakes is like a sawdust and glue mixture, weird stuff.

Resin, sawdust, and a little cabosil makes a great filler putty! Many years ago a boat shop I worked at was bonding the liners in with vermiculite and resin putty.

Yeah i have removed all that fill. and a good potion of the transom, less the inside skin. progress pics. There were copper ringnails holding the sections of plywood together in the transom.

Few more pics and little progress today
 

Gaining

Scott,

Looks like you have room to cross your scupper drain lines before you run them out the transom! I think the gas tank support deck (and maybe the tank) have been replaced. The original tank support was 1/4" plywood.

Thats the front 4cyl 120 hp engine mount support, it's behind and abutts the tank. I't glassed with roven and fairly thick. The tank is fiberglass and need to be replaced as the ethenol fuel will break down the glass. I like your idea about tieing in the scuppers to one line if i even have scuppers. their so low at the watterline i may dump into bildge and let pump do it. I don't moore it, i trailer it so wont be a problem. If the deck was higher. I havent decided yet, still thinking on that one. But if i do i'll do the crossover for sure.

update pics preping
 

Cut grind, clean preping for transom install. Leaving the upper section of skin to keep the form. As it is the weight of boat on the trailer with both skins cut out the sides drop approx. 1/4" so the outside of the hull need to be blocked up a tad to get the same form it had. I took a measurement before i cut the skin out from the top of the skin to the keel 37". The after measurement was 36 3/4".