23 sceptre performance
 

Hi,

New around here. I'm currently in the market for a 23' potter hull sceptre. I've been using this site as reference during my search and truely appreciate the body of information you guys have assembled here.

I have a question regarding performance of these boats. In my experience so far most owners trying to sell exaggerate quite a bit, and in each case the seatrial has told the story.

I've test driven two types so far. One with an inboard 230 yanmar that was converted years ago from and I/O to a full inboard. It lacked the tunnel drive and prop/shaft was angled below the keel. between 3300 rpm the boat settled in between 15-17 knots depending on tabs. Maxed out at 3600 rpm, at around 21 knots. Boat was likely propped wrong (14-3/4" diam, not sure of pitch).

The other boat was another I/O conversion. It had a flotation bracket with a 2000 225 OX66 yamaha. At about 4000 rpm this boat would run at 16 knots. Topped out at 5200 rpm (should be higher I assume) at about 23-24 knots. Boat had a 15"-17p prop on it.

What I haven't tried yet is one that is stock with an outboard on the transom.

In both cases the boat started to "feel" right in the low to mid 20's (knots) range. My question is, anyone here running a 225 (four stroke or 2) that would be able to offer some performance info? Is a 250/300 more appropriate for these boats?

Anybody locally with a sceptre that would be willing to give a guy a ride (not neccessarily sell, just a ride)? I live in the Buzzards Bay area and would appreciate it tremendously.

Thanks!

Tom

Hi Merch, Welcome to the site! The guys on here are the best. Take a look a few threads down from the one you've started here. There are a few discussing what you are wondering about. Though I'm far from an expert, I'd say both boats you seatrialed were not set up correctly.
I'm in Brewster and have a 23 Sceptre that I will probably repower with a full floatation bracket and single 250-300 outboard down the road.

Thanks for the welcome. I know my question sounds like I’m beating a dead horse. I have been through the past threads and they have been tremendously helpful. They are part of what put my expectations where they are now. My biggest concern is that the two boats I tested came nowhere close to what I have read here and I am wondering what the difference is a result of. Two bad eggs is a possibility, but what really got me worried was the 225 OX66. It really didn’t feel like the power was in it to do the job.

I should back up a bit. I’ve always loved the seacrafts. I’ve fished on a friends 20CC for years and it is one of the sweetest little rides in that size I’ve ever been on. Always made me wonder what the 23 must feel like.

I’ve also spent a lot of time on the lesser deadrise planning hulls, so between them and the little 13ft whaler I grew up on, I decided I never want to feel another wave pass under the boat again…. Ever…

The real nail in the coffin for me was a friend’s Regulator 23. I’ve been on 40’s that gave a worse ride than this thing. Of course he had to put a 300 Yami 4-stroke on the back and I’m pretty sure now that I’ve now been ruined for life. ;-) Needs to be 23 footer now, and it needs to cruise in the mid 20 knot range. The 20 will never be enough for me again.

That being said, I’d love to have a CC, but family considerations, and Buzzards Bay in Oct/Nov, and pretty much every afternoon in the summer with a SW blowing on the falling tide got me thinking I would be better off with a full windshield in front of me.

So here I am at the 23 sceptre potter hull. The one thing I can say about the test drives I’ve been on is that the ride lives up to its promises. Everytime I expected to feel something under the boat nothing happens and it feels like falling back down on a pillow full of down feathers. I’m sold on the ride. Now I’m just wondering what it takes to get the performance up to the mid 20’s (knots). Will a 225 ever get there? Is transom mount a better option than the bracket? I/O? I know the tops on these boats will have an impact as well, but I’m wondering really how much it will actually be.

Thanks again,
Tom

Not sure who you rode with but I'm with Blackfin on this one. Both of those configs would be easy to screw up. The Yanmar conversion was probably not designed for speed, so throw that out - although my guess is that it rode like a dream. The bracketed OX66 225 my have been mounted too low or improperly propped or a poor bracket design or missing a cylinder, etc.

I really can't imagine a Sceptre with any healthy 225 not being able to cruise at 20+ knots and top out at close to 30 knots. the other thing is how ofter are you really cruising at 25 knots on Buzzards Bay.

A 23 Sceptre will get 36 knots with a 225 with a15x15 wheel mounted on the transom or even better on a bracket.

I figured there might be something wrong with the bracketed motor setup, but played around for a while with no success (motor trim, tabs, etc). The bracket was air filled, built for 2 motors. The fuel tank started back at the transom (boat was converted from an I/O so they put it there in the empty motor space), but was only 1/4 full, so the extra weight shouldn't have been an issue. Full I'd imagine it would be even more of a pig. The layout of the boat due to the bracket was fantastic, I could have played football in the cockpit. The motor sounded like a happy OX66, but it was mounted as low as possible on the bracket. Wasn't throwing too much of a tail so I figured the height was pretty close, just the motor wasn't enough to push it. I'm still learning here though. The rest of the boat was a little tired, but I could get past that if the performance was there.

Tho one with the diesel inboard was pretty cool. The way it ran it felt like a 30 footer with an inboard. Had some real nice flatline humps behind it around 6kts and nothing sounds like a diesel. My guess with this boat is someone had big plans for a sweet little pocket fisherman when they built it, but probably never performed as well as they wanted so they sold it (converted from an I/O in 2005/2006 and sold to a new owner). The shaft was angled about 18 degrees off the keel, and the wheel that was spinning on it was about 1/2 an inch from the keel as well. The bottom paint was blown off just above the swing of the prop and it looked to be starting to eat at the gel coat. The motor install was really nicely done, but the boat was tiered and I just couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger on it. At 16kts, 3100 rpm, the flowscan showed about 7 gals/hr, but at that speed the mileage is pretty close to a big outboard pushing you along quite a bit faster. The math didn't work out for me.

As far as moving at 25kts in Buzzards Bay goes, mornings can be beautiful (fishing) and from experience, it's nice to be able to do it when you can. I don't mind 15-16kts, but if I'm doing it I'd want the fuel economy to be there and it would probably be in a boat with downeast in the name. Not ready for one of those yet though. I still want a smaller, quicker fishing boat at this point of my life.

Is there any big notable jump in perfoprmance with a 250 or 300 hp from anyones experience (from 225)? By the sounds of it most are saying the 225 should do pretty well. I just haven't experienced it personally yet I guess. :-)

And thanks, I really appreciate the replies. This is turning out to be a much harder decision for me that I initially thought it would be. It's stressful looking to buy a boat!

If I were getting another motor I would get a 250. 300 is even better for mpg, but the cost on a 300 vs the improved speed and better mpg is hard to justify.

Not good #'s at all on the bracketed boat on two times that I have had to come in on one in mine, once I got in smooth water with the dead motor tilted out my single 150 opti did that good with a 19 pitch 4 blade. Has to be at least one cylinder down.

I hear you on the value of performance whether you can open it up or not. And frankly that hull probably takes a snotty day on Buzzards Bay as well as any thing:cool:

Pictures would be helpful but the thing you noted that struck me about the bracketed boat was the motor height. You mentioned it was mounted low on the bracket...

I think most bracket builders recommend 1" elevation per foot of setback. The SeaCraft hull seems to want a little more.

Assuming a 30" setback you'd be looking for the anti-cavitation plate to be 3-1/2" - 5" above the keel trimmed parallel to the keel. Also, do you know if the bracket was built for the Sceptre transom or a random add on.

If height and bracket angles are good, then a compression test is in order

My twins are set where the water is just above the water pickups on a plane cavitation plate is dry.

x2 on this.

merch,
Perhaps you've already read some of my past comments, but I'll mention it again just in case...up until Nov '11, my father had a '82 Sceptre with a rebuilt '96 Yam 225 SWS (carb'd) on a 6" jack plate turning a 15 x 15 SS wheel and it would consistently run 21-22 knots at 4000rpm, 24 knots at 4500, and 34-35 knots on the pins (5600). Prior to the Yam, he had a '89 225 Evinrude looper that performed similarly although a tick slower due to engine age and no jack plate.

If you don't care about a top end over 35 knots/40mph, I highly recommend the Yam 2-strokes in either SWS or OX66 format. They have excellent midrange so your cruise is hardly affected by load, plus they're just great motors all around.

I've got a 1977 Sceptre 23 and I run a 1988 Yamaha V-6 Excel (225 hp) two stroke.

Using a 15" x 17 pitch aluminum prop I get:

Cruise = 30 mph at 4200 rpms burning 11 gph equaling around 2.7 mpg

WOT= 38 mph at 5100 rpms burning 17.5 gph equaling around 2.2 mpg

Those number are per my Lowrance HDS-7 equipped with a fuel flow sensor. All are based on light load run on a large fresh water lake with light chop at 80 degree temperature.

My engine weighs 411 pounds, which is pretty light for its power and size.

From a set up point my cavitation plate is 1-1/2" above my keel at the transom

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'm really starting to think I definately rode a couple misrepresenting examples.

Merch - Where are you in Buzzard Bay? I can show you what a 23cc does with a old 2.4L (175hp) merc.

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...150_Medium.jpg

Thanks bigshrimpin. I appreciate the offer. I live in Westport.

Bigshrimpin can also show what a nice custom fiberglass bracket looks like!

These guys are telling you straight. I used to have a 1974 23' Tsunami (same as the Sceptre), running a single '88 225 Johnson Looper swinging a 15x15 OMC SST prop. Cruise was 23 mph at 3600 rpm, at 2.1 mpg on the NAVMAN. WOT was 38 mph at 5800 rpm, at 1.7 mpg. Motor was mounted on the transom on bottom notch (as high as it would go), water level at cruise rpm was just under ventilation plate, which was completely clear of the water.

Boat previously had twin '86 Johnson 140 hp Loopers under the PO, and his log showed he used to cruise at 4000 rpms at 28 mph, and WOT was 42 mph at 5600. No idea what the fuel economy was or how high the motors were mounted.

IMO. Single 250/300 is the way to go. I prefer Etec and Optimax to 4-strokes, but that's nothing but a preference.

For the record, I have fished many times on a '77 center console jack-shafted diesel. Boat was repowered at Frank Brown's from a gas Ford V8 to an '81 Volvo-Penta 140 hp 4-cylinder turbodiesel, cruised at 18-20 mph, and was WOT at about 26-28 mph. Owner claimed an economy of 3 to 4 gph at cruise, giving it better than 5 mpg. With no trim tabs, it took a while to get on plane, but once there would stay on plane down to about 10-12 mph.

You have all restored my hope. Much appreciated. :)

I have a 300hp Etec and a large hardtop.
I get about 2 mpg at a about 27mph.
WOT at about 5700 RPM is anywhere from mid 40s to low 50s mph depending on conditions and load.
This is with a 4 blade prop. I don't recall the pitch but can report back on that if anyone cares.

I care. :)

Thanks for the feedback.

Tom

How many gallons does the tank hold ?

FYI - Here's an article I saved from Boating Magazine from 1973 where they tested a couple of the 23'Tsunami/Sceptre's with a pair of I-6 Mercs and MerCruisers that will give y'all a feel for the boat's performance when new!

My tank holds 90 gallons. I just noticed that someone did actually want me to check out the pitch on my prop. I will try to remember to do so tomorrow. Sorry for the long delay. I know I owe someone the length of the setback on my platform too.

With engine trimmed up for max WOT performance, believe you should be running at least 500 rpms faster at approx. 5,500. Better for the engine, and better performance. Just a thought.

a 300 set up nice and high with a good prop without a hard top will damn near
scare you - trust me
I had a V8 Rude on one, not that you can afford to feed one now, but it would run - in the ICW you have go fasts reaching for the trim button

a 250 which you could find more options on would be great