Re-powering my seacraft
 

I blew the old 200hp Yamaha on Wednesday. My 18 ran perfect with this motor, it only weighs 416lbs. 25" transom.

I have been shopping for Etec 150's and Optimax 150's and Yamaha F200. I have been quoted $8900 for the Optimax and I think $10,400 for the Etec and $16,000 for the Yami. I like the etec because its simpler and quieter but there is only one dealer in Miami. They always packed and they dont open on Saturdays. There is a Mercury dealer 6 blocks away from where I store my boat. I refuse to pay $16k for the Yamaha.

Ive also found Suzuki 140's for $8000. They look interesting too.

I also have a 20sf that I am considering having completely redone. I would transfer the motor from the 18 to the 20. I am still undecided as to whether I like the 18 or the 20 better. I think the 18 actually rides better. It jumps on plane and doesn't even need trim tabs.

I searched but couldnt really find any performance figures for an 18 with the Optimax or the Etec.

Now I read a thread below where it looks like a Suzuki 90 is adequate. Jeez this is all so confusing.

Weight will be your biggest concern with the new engine,the days of 416 lb 200hp engines is unfortuneatly over.Even mid range 4 strokes will exceed that weight.

I have a 356lb 100hp 4 stroke on a 20 footer and I like it just fine. I get the feeling that the water is often flatter in Florida, so you can take advantage of big power on little boats, so the combinations down there are sometimes a bit different from the those in the Northeast.

I would think that a modern 90 on an 18 footer would be a great combo for performance and on the wallet. And still fine for a 20 footer. Spend a little time on prop tuning and selection to maximize the potential.

Your kinda all over the board:D. Just one look a bitsamonkey's Garmin on that other post is as good of a sales pitch as I would need.

If you are looking new, Zuke 90 would be a fantastic all-around choice. 115 Etec is also a great choice. Etec 90 and F90/100 Yammie would also be effective.

Zuke 140 or etec 150 are a bit heavier than I would want.

IMO F200 is just silly.

Sometimes the bay is pretty flat here, especially in the summer. I dont plan on leaving the bay as I suck at fishing offshore.

I go to the sandbar with my wife(sometimes the kids too) then we go to lunch at one of the water front restaurants and then maybe cruise around for a while.

I have recently gotten hooked on back country fishing and might use my boat for the occasional fishing trip.

I am all over the place, my head hurts. All I know is that the boat felt perfect they way it was. I dont mind loosing some top speed but I do want to be be able to cruise at 30-35 mph.

Well, I think a 90 or 100 would do >35 WOTon your 18 footer. Well tuned, maybe 40 MPH. And about 35-37 WOT on a 20. Mine is 33-34 MPH at WOT, because I drag a big wing thru the water to lower the minimum planing speed, because I have a 4 stroke kicker and a 4 stroke main on the stern. I do fish offshore in the rougher stuff a bit.

My 4 stroke Yamaha F100 is probably quieter (and happy there) at 5500RPM than a lot of the bigger older 2 strokes at cruise. And the 5-6MPG is a bonus.

I think anywhere from 90 to a light 115 is your sweet spot. Watch out, there are heavy 115 outboards out there. So do your homework.

If I had your 18, I might try a 70 hp if it was lighter than a 90 so I could take advantage of it. But that not be a good motor for a Florida bay boat.

How much does your motor weigh? According to yamahas website the F115 weighs 408lbs. The F90 weighs 366lbs. Mercurys 4 stroke 115 weighs 399lbs. The Suzuki 140 weighs 407lbs. I had seen an add for a new Suzuki 140 for $8800, looks like a good option.

Optimax 1.5 litre
 

All Mercury Optimax 1.5 liter motors from 75 HP to 125 HP weigh the same, 375 lbs. I think if my Yamaha 130 2 smoke ever throws in the towel that will be my choice for my 18 even though I have never had a Mercury. Always had Yamaha or OMC .

366 lb for a 2000 model year. The F75, F90 and F100 are pretty much the same thing. My guess is that cams are the difference? The F100 is no longer made. Certain Mercury motors used the F75/90 Yamaha engine. The F100 is known for lots of revs, not a lot of midrange. Not sure on the F75 or F90, but my guess would be that they are similar, or maybe a bit better midrange and a touch less top end? Fr. Frank knows.

The nice thing about the Yamaha is that the corrosion protection is good. It unbolts fine after 12 years and 700 hours.

I like the optimax too but ive watched youube videos and read test that make it sound pretty loud.

Jeez the shop close by does warranty work for Yamaha and Mercury and they tell me Yamaha has corrosion issues. I find it hard to believe.

im yamaha fan all the way and have a f115 on my 20sf

however i feel like the etec 130 may be perfect for you. only weighs 405 lbs and ive read good things about them. i would try to stay as close to 400lbs as possible

if your consitering the etec 150 why not think about the 175 or 200 as they are all 433lbs

I just noticed that. I thought the 200 was heavier.

So far the only estimate I have gotten is $15.8 for the new Yamaha F150 or $12.8 for an Etec 150. Im still waiting for the Suzuki price.

Im going to price out the Etec 175 and 200 too.

Just for comparisons.
The new iF200 is only 8lbs heavier than an F150.
Yamaha F150XA, engine only, $11,490.
Yamaha F200XB, engine only, $13,790.
I can get a cost on a Suzuki if you wish.
And there are some deals around on some used 200's.
OP

Those are the price I was quoted but the rigging kit was 2000 vs free on etec.

I'd defiantly be interested in Suzuki. Do you rig motors?

Yes, we rig motors.

a Merc Verado 2nd Gen has no diffs between 200 and 300HP except the computer. go for the heavy duty lower unit. when it comes off warranty, source a ECM module. I did on my 2005 engine (max 275 from 250) :).

Go Suzuki. 407 lbs. I've had them run for ages in commercial use.

lots of suzukis blown up in the 140HP engines on the cape-but that's the smaller block and higher HP. I have to ask about Suzuki parts also-whenever I needed a part on my Merc over the last 5 years its either in stock or a day 2 tops away. Not sure you can say that about Suzuki. verados are heavy downside. Prob 2 much for this boat.

All are good pick whatever the best local dealer support, not always the best price is my advice. Id shy away from the highest HP in the smaller block choices, on any make.

Well dropped of the boat today........ Etec 150hp with a 4 blade prop. Hopefully it will be done next Friday. I hope it has similar power to what it had before but with better economy , quieter operation, no smoke and of course better reliability.

Excellent choice - you will not be disappointed! What prop are you getting?

I also considered the same weight 140 Zuke, but concluded that at 122 cu. inches of displacement, it wouldn't have nearly as much mid-range torque as the 155 cu. in. E-Tec! I also like not having exhaust valves to burn out if I run the motor hard! I just completed a 382 mile trip with my 7 year old/450 hr motor, running up to the Long Point Gathering and points north without a single hiccup. Ran with a heavy load with 3 coolers and a bunch of camping gear; burned a little more gas than normal because I spent a lot of time cruising at 30 kts instead of my optimum 24-25 kts, but still only burned about 90 gallons and about a gallon of XD100 oil. Comparison tests on identical hulls have also shown that the E-Tec is actually quieter than comparable 4-strokes at 30 kts because it doesn't have to rev up as much!

BTW, if you haven't already seen it, check out this great web site: http://www.etecownersgroup.com/ . . . Very similar to CSC in terms of the quality and quantity of info available there!

Not sure. We are going to start with a 4 blade and see how it goes. They have a few props I can try out.

Well I got my boat back. On the way to the ramp now. I'll post performance number later tonight. Starting off with a loaner 4 blade prop.

Can't wait to hear the results

It was very rough and windy. I couldn't really go faster than 35 because of chop. At 30mph I'm burning 6.5 gph. At 27mph it's like 5 gph. Prop is a 14 1/4 x 17- 4 blade.
I did hit 5000 rpm and backed off, It was hard to read the mph but it think it was either 45 or 47. Still had more to go.

Rene,

It sounds like you are probably in the ball park with that prop if you had more throttle left at 5000 rpm. Your optimum rpm range for that motor is 5500-5600. Step 1 in checking a prop is to make sure tach is accurate, which it will be if you're running an I-Command gage. Step 2 is to make sure mounting height is correct, so you'll need to have someone run the boat up on plane while you take a look at AV plate, the top of which should be out of the water when you're trimmed out and up on plane.

If you can connect your GPS to the I-Command system (or just buy a Lowrance GPS antenna like I did), it will display your instantaneous mpg, which really helps to dial in your optimum trim & rpm, etc. I'm running a 15x15 4B prop and my optimum cruise is also about 27 mph, around 3700 rpm at a little over 6 gph, so you're getting great mileage! With your lighter boat and more pitch, your optimum cruise will probably occur at lower rpm. Denny

Bushwacker- I have the icon pro gauges with the built in gps for speed. I wasnt able to explore the gauge today but I will tomorrow. Tomorrow is supposed to be a light chop and Thursday will be smooth. I will be able to get a better idea of the numbers in the next few days.

Ok looks like using the digital rpm gauge I'm only getting 4850 rpm, full of gas and with my wife. Basically that's a full load for me, I weight 300 so I count like 2 people and my wife is about 125.

4850 and 47mph.

Wow, you're over-propped by at least 700 rpm! Surprised that a full tank of gas and extra person made that much difference, but that's why Fr. Frank always says to test props with the max load you intend to carry. You definitely need less pitch; maybe a 3B might be better for you if you want a high speed cruise, but I still think you need some stern lift with a relatively heavy motor on a small boat. Maybe try a 15" pitch 3B Rebel prop, which has a lot of blade area, hangs on plane well and has good stern lift. Too bad we don't live closer . . . you could try my 15x15 4B prop. I can only turn it to 5450, but the optimum rpm for my 2007 motor is 5400-5500. You could probably turn it faster on a lighter boat.

Did you get a look at the AV plate to see if it's dry on plane? If motor is mounted too low, that might get you another 100 rpm or so. Also what was your min-planing speed with that prop? Suggest you send a PM to forum member Keys Cruz, who is also running a 150 E-Tec on an 18 to see what prop he's running. He lives close to you when he's not living on his trawler in the Keys.

WOW !!!
i have 3 questions.
1 Why did you go with the 150 ? ( max hp on the boat is 175. the 150 and 175 weigh the same on that motor )
2 Are you mounted on the transome or bracket
3 do you have a noticable difference in noise level at the console ?

1. My 18' is max rated for 150hp. The dealer told me that there is very little difference between the 150 and the 175, maybe 10-15 hp.

2. I am transom mounted

3. the etec is much quieter than my old Yamaha at idle, cruise and somewhat quieter at WOT.

As is, the boat cruises real nice at 35-37mph burning 7-8 gph or 4.5-5.2 mpg. I was hoping to hit 50mph but was probably being too optimistic.

Unfortunately I think my motor is a little too low. Im at the last hole, so no room for adjustment.

Your 4B 15x15 would probably be a lot better than my 17. The dealer offered a 3B. Is your prop a BRP prop?

sorry forgot yours was a 18. the 20 is rated for 175. if you got to 47... 50 is possible fresh wax on bottom, trim, motor height, etc.. the trade off for top end is not always worth it. I thought the motors were rated at the prop in real world HP. 150 =150 at the prop shaft 175=175 at the prop shaft.. if and when i can swing the new motor i will be extatic with 4 + mpg @ 35 mph..

You're way down in RPM, so I suspect you could easily hit 50 mph with the right prop. That motor develops max HP at 5350, so it's not putting out it's max HP with your current prop. I think Keys Cruz' rig will do over 50. You should be able to have the mount holes redrilled higher to pick up some more speed AND MPG!

My 15" prop is a PowerTech ELE4. My dealer didn't carry any BRP props and only had used props for trials. He said the 2.7L V-6 typically can't turn a Rebel fast enough on a boat like mine and that it's normally used by the guys with the 3.3/3.4L big block V-6, but it will fit your motor so I'd try a 15P version if they'll let you.

I have an aluminum Michigan Vortex 4B 14x20 that I had repitched to 14x18 which turns about 5500 and I use it for a spare. I also have a 14.125x20 4B Michigan Apollo that I once hit almost 50 mph with; it gives a little better mileage than the 15x15, but it only turns about 4600 with a very heavy load and 5200 with a light load and is much slower to get on plane. I also tried the same model PowerTech in 15x17P size, but it's down about 200 rpm compared to the 15P version. The 15x15 jumps on plane at only 40-45% throttle, will stay there down to about 12 mph, and turns the same max rpm regardless of load. I can basically run any speed I want with that prop, so I've been running it for about 6 years. Still not sure it's the best, but I think it's close!

NAEBM rules only require that the actual HP be within +-10% of the advertised HP! BRP appears to be sandbagging by the full 10% on the ratings of their more mildly tuned motors, because they've published HP curves showing that the "150" E-TEC is actually 165 hp at the prop, so it's a very strong "150"! They also build the "175" and "200" hp motors on the same 158 cu. in. block, but I suspect the actual hp of the "175" is about 180-185, while the "200" maybe somewhere around 190-200. The 3.3L"200" HP big block V-6 is reportedly a very strong motor at about 220 hp, but it's also over 100 lbs heavier than the small block V-6.

If you look at HP/cu. in., that'll give you a clue as to how strong the motor really is, especially in the mid range where you want maximum torque for getting on plane. The more conservatively rated motors tend to have more mid-range torque than motors that are tuned for maximum top end HP. One of the most knowledgeable techs on the E-TEC Owners Forum claims that the 105 cu in. V-4 115 is actually has noticeably more mid-range torque than the 130 HP version of the same powerhead! HP and Torque are two different things, and both 2 and 4-stroke motors can be tuned to optimize one at the expense of the other!

I'm still testing a new prop I purchaced for my 18. It's a Stiletto Bay Pro 3, 4 blade 14 1/4 x 15. I raised the motor all the way up (2" or so above the keel) but need to lower it a bit due to over heating at full throttle full trim. I hit 44 @ about 5500 rpm briefly before i had to back down on the throttle. Cruise was 32 @ 4000 rpm. The old Johnson 150 loves 4000 rpm. The boat was fully loaded. More testing this weekend.

I tried a 3 blade 16P. I was able to hit 5500 +/- fully loaded but only went 45mph. My cruise dropped to 30-32mph and fuel consumption went up. It wouldnt plane as slow either.

Its weird but the 4B over propped setup felt better.

What 3 blade 17p prop did you try?

4 Blades will always produce more stern lift than a 3B, so that's why you could stay on plane longer with the 4B. I think they generally have less slippage so they're more efficient at cruise, although the drag of the extra blade may cost you a few mph on top end.

Sounds like you just need to get your motor height corrected and then find the right combo of pitch/diameter 4B. You might try Ken at Prop Gods or try the PowerTech web site, where they have a data sheet you fill out with boat weight and the performance numbers you're getting with current prop. They will then advise what prop would best suit your application. If being able to hang on plane at low speed is a priority (which I think is important for a 20 that you run offshore), be sure to mention that.