New transom and bracket 23cc
 

Hi guys,

This past spring I bought a 1981 23' cc with a 275 verado on a small bracket. I new when I purchased the boat I woulded a new transom and bracket and a few other things. The bracket is too small for the engine so it sits too low in the stern. When the boat is on plane it rides great but i spend most of my time using full tab. Despite this it still gets between 2.8 and 3.2 mpg at a 20-24kt cruise.

I have been talking to Bill Sartini of Ros boats in Tiverton RI about doing the transom and building a custom fiberglass bracket. While I could probably do the job myself I definately dont have the time. I have read mostly good reviews of him and his work but but one who was not too happy. His bracket design is different in that he extends the running surface of the hull instead of raising the bracket up a few inches from the bottom of the transom the way everyone else does. Does anyone here have any experience or opinions on Bill or this type of bracket design and how it will effect the ride of the boat?

Any feedback is appreciated! I will post a couple pictures of my boat and some of the boats he has done. He did say that he doesnt think he has done a bracket for a 23 seacraft yet but Did one for a 21 several years back.

Thanks - sb

Here is the boat as I bought it. You guys may remember these pics as they were tht when it was up for sale. The seller is a freind of mine so were were pretty clear about the issues and worked out a deal we could both live with. Now i just need to get it taken care of.

2nd attempt...

A pic of a bracket he did on another boat.

Cut the floor out, raise it 4-5", and put the gas tank as far forward as you can. Put the batteries under the console and you may be able to slide the console forward some too. You may also have stringers that the foam is slam full of water. And yes getting a bracket like in the pic will help out alot too. Other than that throw some sand bags in the anchor locker for a cheap fix.
But a nice setup tho.

The floor has already been done and raised 2.5"+. The fuel tanks are fairly new and and in good condition as well. I do need to reposition them tho. The stringers will get done at some point, just not sure i will have the time to get them done this winter.

GO with a Hermco bracket you wont be disapoined. Hes got the right molds and it wont need to be custom built. Go with the 'double' bracket and it will have PLENTY of floatation. I love mine, my decks are dry with the 250 Honda.

http://www.hermco.net/

I love the hermco bracket but at almost $4k for just the bracket is a little too rich for me. I'm wondering what problems may be created by extending the running surface with a custom bracket tho? I assume it would plane a little quicker?

Curious what ROS wants ($$) for a bracket. That looks a little different than the one they used to make. It looks nicer.

A lot less than $4k. He is also local to me and I can bring the boat to him to do the work. He can also do the transom work.

Was this boat sitting at Enos marine in Gloucester this summer? It looks very similar to one that I saw there, and if it is the same boat that transom is really TOAST! A lot of the work that we done by the previous owner looks pretty shotty...

.

Didn't think I was being an ass as you mentioned you were replacing the transom anyway. I think it's a good looking boat and it caught my eye from quite a distance. I like a lot of the things the previous owner did (the big scuppers are nice!), however it did not look like much care was taken to do some of it right (probably why the transom has already failed). It's nice to know that the boat is in the hands of someone who is willing to fix it and do it right. I like the idea of the extending the running surface back, it should give a little extra flotation and will most likely make the boat ride like it's 2 feet bigger (mostly because it will be 2 feet of so longer), gapping the waves better. Does your glass guy plan on glassing the bottom of the bracket to the bottom of the hull? Also how will your drain plug work now? Will you have to pull a plug in the boat and in the bracket? I know thatt on most standard bracket installs that is not an issue.

No worries. My apologies for responding like that, was just looking for some helpful feedback.

The scuppers that were on the boat when I bought it were tiny. I cut them out larger to my liking. That was probably a waste of effort since I will be moving them to the stern when i redo the transom and bracket. The drain plug will just get moved to the bottom of the hull when the new bracket is done. structurally the transom is ok at the moment because they used aluminum brackets bolted through the stringers and transom. My glass guy looked at it and said it is solid and can run this way for years, it just looks like hell and needs to be done the right way. I cant stand having it his way and plan on correcting all the issues over the winter.

The new bracket will be both bolted and glassed to the hull. He said he has been building these brackets since the early 80s and they have made some modifications to the design over the years.

wow... well handled by both of you.. if this had been THT it would have gotten way off course and ugly fast.... gotta love our SeaCraft brothers on keeping our forum classy... I watched the boat on one of the Sales add places.. liked the overall thought but couldn't understand why the PO would have spent the coin without complete refit on the transom before hanging that beast on the back...

The guy I bought it from put the new bridsall leaning post/livewell, outriggers, electronics, swivel rod holders, 2nd fuel tank, etc..
I guess he never looked to hard at the transom and some of the other stuff. The motor was already on the boat. Its an 06 motor and runs great. Most of waht the boat needs is fiberglass related and glass is relatively cheap. All of the other stuff is like motor and systems is newer or brand new.

I would also consider moving the console forward while you have the boat apart, it would help offset the added weight on the stern, and it would also give you more room behind the leaning post, as it looked really tight back there. However once on plane I think it would hurt the feel of the ride because you're further forward, but it's a seacraft... So how bad could the ride really get?

X2. Well done.

I agree about moving everything forward to create more space but I think it is a delicate balance. The 50 gallon livewell in the leaning post makes it tigher too. My plan was to move everything 6-8" forward and maybe take a couple inches out of the stern cap to help create more room. Its hard to justify though because the ride is amazing the way it is set up now.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that Bluewater was in my marina last year in Westbrook CT.

I knew Roger before he passed away a few year ago. I thought he did a good job building boats . . . he loved the chopper gun . . . not sure how his brother builds the brackets.

Carla brought her dad (Carl Moesly) by my house to see my boat after I had the bracket installed. I asked him what he thought about the bracket and his response was "Why not just make the whole boat longer?!" Blue Heron has recently found some technical info on the performance characteristics of planning hulls that says that Moesly's instinct was absolutely correct, as one might expect from a guy with his experience! A bracket that extends the planning surface of the hull will give you all of the benefits of a bracket and NONE of the disadvantages! It will need to be seriously stout however, with real stringers, etc. I'd want a layup similar to the original (see attachment), no chopper gun stuff!

Denny,
Here is one I did recently for Atlantic Boat Company. :D
Video on their site, http://www.atlanticboat.com/boats/the-duffy-29h

http://www.hermco.net/abc/abc0001.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/abc/abc0002.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/abc/abc0003.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/abc/abc0004.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/abc/abc0005.JPG

Don...I like the new additional angle on the fwd facing transom edge. That should add a lot of strength. Only your bracket would make outboards on a downeast boat look that good!

Made it from one off molds using a transom splash they sent me, their design parameters, and what I know about building fiberglass brackets from Bill Potters design. Came out pretty cool man. :D

Hermco, That bracket is sweet, I like the way it has foam filler stringers built into the flotation chamber. Looks great on that Atlantic.

The Atlantic is definitely a well built vessel. They take a lot of care in the quality of their build.

Anyway back to topic, here is a Whaler hull extension bracket I did a couple years ago, I built the bottom off the hull and added one of my bracket lids from the molds.

http://www.hermco.net/whaler/1.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/whaler/2.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/whaler/3.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/whaler/4.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/whaler/5.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/whaler/6.JPG

They work well on RIBs too. Here is one of two I did for the local Sea Tow dude last year, gets used every day,

http://www.hermco.net/ribs/1.JPG

http://www.hermco.net/ribs/2.JPG

I didn't realize you built that bracket.

Nice job man.

Don,
I was surfing your website a couple weeks ago and meant to ask you about this one. How does it perform compared to a conventional bracket?

I also noticed you did a full hull extension on an Ocean Master. How does the performance of the longer hull compare to a bracketed version?

I'm still doing some research to figure out which way I want to go with my Potter 20, but the technical info Bushwacker alluded to in his post above is making me think a full width extension will provide more dynamic lift at lower speeds. Of course, at that point it's not really a bracket anymore unless you build it to bolt on.
Dave

The RIB hull extension was to get max floatation, I don't have any comparison data. For the Ocean Master I went to Mark at Ocean Master and used his molds to lay up the hull parts, then made a one off mold for the fish box/ livewell and added a twin bracket. Also added fuel tanks while I had the transom cut off. Slid em in under the deck. Worked pretty cool. :D

Don, Very cool work. Have you extended the bottom of a SC 23 yet for max floatation and an ideal twin engine mount?

Never even had anyone ask about it. Would be interesting to do one with before and after data tho.

That is kinda what I had planned to do to my 23, I was going to do a hull extension/bracket similar to what you have done here. That saying of Carl's when he was asked about what he thought about the boats with a bracket he said "why don't you just make the boat longer" keeps popping in my head. It will be a bit before I get started on mine, but as soon as the 20' sceptre hits the water I will be going threw it and changing the transom and splash well to a extended version like on the newer style boats made today like on the regulator 32 and such. I will post some performance information on the "after" when its done but there will not be any before data to compare it to so it might not tell you guys as much.

If it turns out looking half as good as Hermco's extensions and rides well I will be pleased...

Thanks for the feedback on this guys. So I guess if Mosely says extend the hull/running surface then that pretty much answers my question;)

Don those brackets look great.

I am looking forward to geting this done later this winter and seeing the performance difference compared to the current set up.

Hermco - really nice work as always. Did you tie in the bracket stringers to the stringers in the hull on that RIB, or just laminate them to the the existing transom? Are there +/-'s to doing the bracket directly to the hull vs bolting them on, and any downside to making them a hull extension vs having a step up to the bracket?

This is kinda what I had in mind but built in wells for the trim tabs:
Attachment 5465

A few pics of the tear out of the old transom. The boat originally had a notched transom. You can see from the pics that whoever closed in the transom never actually removed the old one, they just added a piece of ply to the notch and puttied it in place. Once the brackets that were holding the engine and bracket to the stringers were removed, it basically fell apart. Glad I decided to do this now instead of running it for another year.

I think Potter has a very narrow definition of "performance benefits" that are theoretically possible but not practical. Most brackets shift the CG aft by significant amount unless you compensate by moving batteries, consoles and gas tank. Shifting the CG aft will no doubt raise the bow and allow you to run with more hull out of the water IN CALM CONDITIONS, so that would reduce drag and theoretically allow a slight increase in speed and MPG. However my "real world" experience with a boat that I ran with a light motor for 31 years and then repowered with bracket and much heavier motor (and there's no console to move in a Seafari!), was that the resulting CG shift increased my min planing speed, even with trim tabs, from about 12 mph to the low 20's! Yes, I could hit almost 50 mph with the bimini top lowered, a light load and a good 3B prop, but I never use the boat like that! Since I seldom run in flat calm conditions, but mostly offshore where you'd like to hang on plane at low speed to keep from going airborne when the seas kick up, that increase in min planing speed was totally unacceptable! By the time I added a doelfin and stern-lifting 4B prop to get my min planing speed back down to 12 mph, I LOST about 10 mph in WOT speed, and I know the doelfin costs me 0.2 - 0.3 mpg from back-to-back tests! A good friend of mine re-powered his Seafari with the same motor I have but without a bracket. His min planing speed is still relatively low, but his WOT speed is 50 MPH! Bottom line is that I think my real world performance would be better with the motor on the transom!

Now with a CC where you could maybe offset the CG shift by moving the console, gas tank and batteries forward, you might be able to still get the low planing speed with a 3B prop and no fin. The bracket does add other benefits like the solid transom, big dive platform and more room in the boat, so I would still do it again, but I have to admit that Carl was right, extending the hull would have been even better, giving the same benefits but without causing the CG shift and related problems! He has years of racing experience in rough conditions that Potter never had, so I would trust his judgement over Potter's any time! And the hydrodynamic model that Dave refers to also predicts better low speed planing performance (='s better ride!) for the hull extension!