20 Master Angler Bracket ?
 

A friend of mine has a 20 master angler with a yamaha 150 4stroke. Transome needs replacing ( even before repower). Is there any reasone why we shouldn't put a bracket on this boat ?
Thanks Dave

Put it on there. Raise floor at least 4" tho. Had same setup that I just sold.

Here it is.
Make sure to move tank forward also.

Dave, a lot of guys have put brackets on a 20, but it's a major modification that significantly changes the balance of the boat, so I'd caution your friend to thoroughly think it through before jumping into it! You can really screw up a boat with a bracket if it's not done right!

The 19/20' SeaCraft hull is relatively light and extremely efficient, designed in the mid-60's for motors which weighed less than 300 lbs and weren't more than about 100 hp. There aren't many guys around now that remember those original boats, but I was one of them, and those boats had an amazingly soft ride and outstanding performance with those small lightweight motors. Trust me, the guys who hang big heavy motors on these boats today have no idea how badly they've screwed up an elegant, beautifully balanced design! Just because modern overweight 8' wide 20' boats need 200 hp to get decent performance, it doesn't mean that's appropriate for the SeaCraft design that was so far ahead of it's time that it's still out-performing new boats 50 years later!

I did a CSC post several years ago on Pro’s & Con’s of brackets you may be interested in. I can no longer find a link to it, so here is the text from a MS Word file that I saved. Feedback from all the CSC guys with bracket experience said it covered all the angles pretty well

BRACKET PROS & CONS (Posted 11-16-08)
This question comes up often enough that I thought I’d start a new thread, as I had the same questions many of you are probably having. If you’re wondering, after having gone thru this learning experience, would I do it again, the answer is ABSOLUTELY! However, here are a few things you need to think about before you dive into what will no doubt be a more expensive project than just a transom rebuild! Don Herman, PaulB, Snookerd, Briguy, and Captains Chuck & Lloyd, feel free to chime in on anything I’ve missed or otherwise screwed up! (These comments apply to the 20' hull; for a 23, the pro's are the same, but the con's are probably less severe, as the bigger boat should be a little less weight sensitive, although I'd still be careful about running real heavy twins.)

PRO’S
1. The biggest advantage of the closed transom/bracket set up is the safety aspect of keeping water out of the boat from a big breaking following sea. Unless you’ve been in that situation, it’s probably hard to put a value on it, but it’s a very big deal to me!
2. It's really nice for diving and it provides more room in the boat since you can eliminate the splashwell. You've essentially increased boat length by whatever the bracket setback dimension is.
3. It also keeps noise and smoke out of the boat, if you’re still running an old carbureted 2-stroke.
4. Improved Performance. Most before & after tests have shown that a bracket adds 2-3 mph in top speed because motor is running in cleaner water, allowing you raise the motor relative to bottom of boat. A similar increase may occur in optimum cruise speed.
5. Improved on-plane trim capability. Maybe it’s just the 25” shaft motor, but an aft shift of the motor increases the lever arm for both weight and thrust loads! Power trim definitely has more effect on running angle than I had with a 20” motor mounted on the transom.

CON’S
1. Downsides are it changes the boat balance because you've shifted the weight of the motor aft, which moves the boat CG aft, and tends to hurt ride and increase min planing speed. On the 20' hull, the Seafari is less stern heavy than the cc models, so it's a better candidate for a bracket IMHO.
2. Low speed maneuverability will be slightly affected, because you've also shifted the boat's pivot point aft. In my own case, I found that the new Seastar hydraulic steering system had a shorter stroke than my old Hyanautic/home-made rig, so it doesn’t turn the motor all the way to the stops, which exaggerated the maneuverability problem. As near as I can tell, all the factory made hydraulic systems have the same stroke, and I haven’t figured out a fix to that yet.
3. You'll have to move the axle on your trailer back a couple feet to keep enough weight on the tongue.
4. All brackets I know of are made for a 25" shaft motor, which might be an issue if you're not repowering or having a bracket custom made. The higher that powerhead is from the water, the better!

A few key things you need to pay attention to if you add a bracket:

1. Motor weight! Because of the CG issue, lighter is better! I would not consider the 450-500 lb 150 4S Yamaha, Honda & 150/175 Zuke, and the big block V-6 200+ hp 2 strokes because they're so heavy. That leaves the 140 & smaller Zukes, the Merc Optimax, the small block V-4 & V-6 E-Tecs among the new motors, and the earlier small block V-6 2 strokes. If you run offshore a lot, LESS (power & weight) is MORE. The light 20' hull will start to go airborne at about 20 kts in seas over about 3', so you don't need a big motor for that type of operation. I considered the 375 lb V-4 E-Tec rated at 115 hp (really about 120-125hp) but they weren't in production yet when I bought mine. I’m obviously not a speed demon, but the 150 (really 165) E-Tec at 429 lbs is overkill on power (will run almost 50 mph in flat water) and is the heaviest motor I'd consider. That said, it IS nice to be able to cruise at 4000 rpm/30-35 mph AND carry on a normal conversation! (It’s quieter than the 4-strokes at that speed.) It’s also nice to be able to outrun a thunderstorm if you screw up and get surprised by one!

2. Look for a bracket with the biggest flotation tank you can find, either a Hermco or an Armstrong designed for twins (but use a single on it). Reason is to maintain some self-bailing capability. My rig is still self-bailing, but just barely; I leave the scupper plugs in and depend on the bilge pump if I leave it in the water overnight.

3. Try to run the smallest setback you can with the motor you’re using. I could get away with 18”, so 30” on the Hermco is overkill, although nice for diving! (Don can make his bracket with various setback dimensions.) Making a custom bracket like Strick & Big Shrimpin did is a good idea if you have those kind of skills!

4. You will probably want to run trim tabs, a 4-blade stern lifting prop and maybe a Doelfin or equivalent to maintain good low speed (12-13 mph) planing capability for rough water operation. The flotation tank doesn’t help when you’re on plane, so all this stuff helps compensate for the weight shift.

5. If you already have hydraulic steering, all you need is new hoses, throttle and shift cables that are about 6' longer, at least if you rig them like Don Herman recommends, where everything runs down into the bracket and then thru the transom inside the flotation tank to keep a nice clean transom. If you have cable steering, you'll want to switch to hydraulic steering, which I'd recommend even if you don't go with a bracket.

These are just some thoughts based on my own experience. A lot of folks are probably trying to make this decision, so you other guys with brackets, feel free to chime in! Denny

Denny, Denny, Denny.......:rolleyes:
Sometimes you just wear me out!
Having an engineering background myself, I took the CG into
consideration when the NoBones was rehabbed 20+ years ago.

Simply moved the console forward and the 80 gallon tank forward to maintain the CG with a 200HP carbed Merc hanging on her butt!!

She has performed effortlessly since!

Yes, sometimes logic works with science!!

Ok, I feel better now...:cool:

We still love you Denny! :)

Welcome Dave, a lot of good info on this site, mill around and see what you can find.

When you get it all set up you can do mine at the same time. LOL

I will also add if you do the floor, make it level all the way to the bow. If you need, build you a coffin in front of the console or just fasten a good size cooler in front.
This boat had flush mounted brackets to mount the cooler for offshore trips. This boat has been 60 miles offshore in some pretty tough stuff and the ride is awesome.
No CG issues at all. I think it actually rides better than the original.
Big @ss trim tabs when needed.

Ken - It worries me that you tire so easily, son! Is Patty not feeding you well? Maybe time for some Geritol?! :)

Sorry for the long post . . . I would have much preferred to have just used a link to that old thread - thought it contained some useful info for a new guy. Do you have any idea why I can no longer find it with the search function? Did we lose a bunch of old material when we switched over to the new web site host? Denny

http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...ad.php?t=19779

should do it. Thank erebus, not me :)

I vote that it should be a sticky- the Bracket Pros / Cons thread...

I think a 150 4 stroke is pretty heavy for that boat. (I have no bracket.) I have a 375 lb Yamaha F100 and a 58 lb Tohatsu kicker on the transom. With batteries forward, tank forward, no T-Top, no baitwell, no leaning post, it JUST self bails. With 4 blade stern lifter prop and hydro-shield flying wing, the planing speed is good- 13-14 mph, and no trim tabs needed.

If you fish in the Northeast, a lighter motor and original floor height are what I recommend. You can't use the speed, and you don't want to flip out of the boat- the high cap on the MA is nice that way- don't give it up by stuffing 2x4s under the deck.
From what I can tell with the way the Floridians talk on the board, all the water around Florida is like a mud puddle in a high school gymnasium. Flat with a sandy bottom. :)

At least they can air it out from time to time. Twice I have gotten my 20 MA entirely out of the water at 5 knots or less. And once was 4 miles offshore- the other was the mouth of the Merrimack. High gunwales keep all the contents of your tackle box in the boat when you finally come crashing down :)

Denny-It's obvious that Ken has slowed down if that wears him out!! Haha....keep the engineering info coming and maybe we can ship nobones some vitamins. That info is helpful for folks that do not possess Ken's instincts!

Ditto on that

strick

If you want dry feet raise the floor. You will still have 20" freeboard in back corner, which is plenty for a 20' boat, and if you crown the transom then.. I believe it was about 26" of freeboard in center on mine. Up front I had around 32"-35" of freeboard with the flush deck. With the bracket on there you have a full transom to lean on when fishing.

I just made it a sticky......great idea.

Destruction begun on this project.

A few more pics of the progress on the 1978 MA.

Another. ..........

One more.....

Mulch pile .....

Thanks for posting them Brian. It looks like we are going to raise floor and not put a bracket on. Boat has a 2013 yam 150 four stroke. Should I move fuel tank foward ? If so how far ?

Tuck u doing a MA too. If so the front of the poly 50gal I put n my last one was about where the fromt deck starts. I also had a yammy 150. Prolly another 8-12" more would have been fine. U can find my post of my rebuild and c where I mounted it.

Lookin good bryan.

Thanks parrot but this one is Tuckermans project, mine is the red SF in the thread below.

Which will also be Tucks soon. :D

K right on man. What r the plans inside the hull?

I think I saw a jacuzzi today. :D

Looks like raise the deck, new live well forward of the console, cleanup current console.

Keep the forward and rear boxes. And the trim around old floor?

I put bracket on my Seafari and am very pleased, it floats on it's well on it water line and performs very well. The engine is about 400 lbs

Floor is getting raised quite a bit. 4-5" so flange is going. Forward box is getting converted to a live well. Rear boxes staying.

That seems to be the plan so far.

Good deal. Perfect floor height;)

Yeah decided to take cap off !

This is a pic of a 23 consol / pilot house . This one will be similar on the 20'.

Sweet. That looks cool. Any other pics of pilot house

Well like any other resto projects we are in deep. Stringers were soaked so they came out. Formed stringers to new floor height. All wood you see is the forms and will be removed. Stringers will be glassed like originals .

Foam has been poured. Next is shaping and glass

Here is a before pic .

Looks good dude. Honestly u could of got away from filling w foam. Really no reason to do so. Unless u plan on filling the whole boat w foam so it will somewhat float if it sinks

I used to feel the same way, I thought why would anybody want to put that crap back into a boat. My feelings towards foam changed one day when I split a 2' crack down the stringer threw the hull in my mitchcraft flats boat out in the middle of the river. Lucky I was only a mile or so from the creek mouth coming into the ramp when it happen. The boat filled with water in seconds. It sat in the water at a 30 degree angle with my power head barely above the water line. Water was poring over the 25" high transom from in the boat back into the river at a fast rate. I slowly made it back to the ramp while water filled the boat and ran out the back. The foam under the deck and in the stringers was the only thing that save my butt. The mitchcraft is a full composite boat with foam filled box stringers almost like the ones in the seacraft. The foam kept the heavy 200 hp power head just barely above the water and it kept the boat from sinking. I was far enough out in the river there was no beaching it in time. Ever since then I changed my thinking on foam in a boat. If you get a good closed cell type it will do much better staying dry than the 40 year old potter stuff. Even the old stuff will not hold as much water if it can drain out the boat. Dont get me wrong I dont like the stuff but it can save you if you get in a bind and there are some coast guard requirements that says you have to have it too I think.

I am at this point on my sf cc and like the way you formed it up. I been trying to come up with a way to add a few inches to my box stringers as well with out spending a ton of cash on form material that will just get trashed. I had to cut the tops off mine as well to dig the 800lbs of wet foam out. Did you use anything to seal the seam between the top of the glass stringer and the wood form or did not try to run out between the gaps as it expanded? I thought about doing the same but dont want it leaking out every where when I pour it. Also about how many Gallons of the a&b pour mixture did it take to do the boxes with the extra height?

It took about 3.5 gallon kits to do that. There wasn't that many leaks . I lined the forms with plastic so they can be pealed easily . That pic was the second sinking of this boat , that we know of!

Pulled forms , looks good alittle shaping and some clean up ready for glass. The foam is level. Pic makes it look tilted.

Awesome!!