F300 on 23cc questions
 

I am getting ready to repower my 1999 23cc with a 2012 Yami F300. If anyone has this combination can you tell me what prop has given you the best numbers and the height you have the motor mounted?

:) that's going to be an awesome set-up

Check out the Yamaha performance bulletins and you can find a similar size boat with that motor. I was looking at upgrading to that motor for my boat after my F225 was stolen. Right now my (lightweight) 23CC has a F250 and I run a 19 pitch 4 blade Merc prop. With a 4 blade you can move the engine up a little.

My guess would be you could spin a 21 pitch no problem

I would recommend contacting Ken at prop gods

23 cc / F-300
 

A friend of mine just set the same boat up this summer. Replaced an F-250 with an F-300. He says be careful, they are geared differently and that you will be over-propped with the 21". With the 17", he "spools up" to 5900 WOT, making 45 knots and cruses at 4,000 making 25 knots and attaining 2.3 MPG.

Thanks for the input guys. I was hoping to spin a 19 pitch 4 blade with cavitation plate at 1 1/2" or more up from bottom but may not be able to do that. 2.3 mpg is less than I was wishing for but is a lot better than the twin 150 carbed Mercs are giving me now. Hoping to finish this project and get back to my '73 20 foot SF that is undergoing a down to the stringers resto. I am going to hang a carbed 150 Evinrude on it and not even worry about the fuel because I don't think it will get used much after I get the Yami on the 23.
I have a great running pair of '99 150 Mercs for sale if anyone is interested.
Bill

23/300
 

Transom mount or bracket?

23/f-300
 

It is Transom Mount. Kieth is a diver so he probably runs around with another 700# +/- more than a rod and reel fisherman. It probably effects his top end.

We make a lot of long runs on the west coast of Florida (look at the Continental Shelf on google earth) and easily log 100 mile days, so we tend to cruise more than those in the Keys and West Palm who are in 600' of water and can see the condos. They can mash the throttles down until the hit fiberglass beause they're going to be there in 17 minutes or 10 gallons. We just can't make the numbers work with a two Gag grouper per person limit here!

Ken@PropGods rocks.

4 blade all the way, get a stern lifting like Rev 4. Never go lower than the 17P on the Rev 4. I forgot why but Ken PropGod told me and that's all I needed to know.

My guess is start with the 17P Rev 4, considering your loads running.

My 23 is heavy. hatches and deck I used marine ply 1/2" and epoxy. when loaded for tuna its a lot of gear/ice/livewell if used. I think I run about 60-80 lbs ice, liferaft is 75?, and gear. Prob drops to 5800 under load WOT.

Engine is about 645 lbs as well. Armstrong Bracket.

I always try hit a near WOT usually on the inside of Pleasant Bay for a couple minutes to clean the engine out from trolling and idling, if not on the outside. You need to make sure you can get to near WOT with a 4S when propping, and run it there for a few minutes. No need to build carbon up :).

Someone may chime in on other 4 blade props but once I tried a Rev 4 that was it. Much better offshore, and I did move my engine up 1 notch over the 3 blade 17P Mirage.

I agree, the Rev 4 is one of my favorite props especially if you need stern lift. I ran a 23p on my 24 Formula (Fleetcraft) and it out performed a half a dozen other props I tried. Due to my lower gear ratio the 23p was the right pitch for me but when I moved my Suzuki to the Tsunami I was in need of bow lift and I had to go to a bigger 3 blade wheel (16" dia). I tried to go with a Bravo but just couldn't get the pitch I needed.

No matter what motor you are going with, Mercury props are the way to go and their hub formats can be adapdted to anything.

That's great advice for those just getting into 4 strokes. My engine idles all day long in between dive drops and I had a huge problem with carbon coking on my exaust valves and probably pistons too. My mechanic told me the same. Run it like you stole it for the last 5 or 6 miles at 90% and WOT for at least 2 minutes before you hit the ramp. This proceedure has keep my engine running way better for the last 1000 hours over the first 700. Also, very important not to over prop a 4 stroke. You sould see little to no rpm fluxuation in seas at any load.

keep us updated on this. I think this is the best combo, but would like some more real world experience.

Very interested in performance on this set up. I'm in the middle of a complete resto from stringers up on my 1974 23sf. Looking at mercury 300 verado and
Yamaha f-300 for my power options.

I will update with performance numbers when I get the boat rigged. Just sold the old Mercs today and I will pull them off next weekend but I am then going to have the bottom re-gelcoated or shot with a dark blue Awlgrip and a bootstripe applied. May take a little more time than I was anticipating when I first started this project but it is nothing compared to the 4 years it has been since I stripped down my '73 20 sf to restore. That project has taken a back burner to the 23 repower. Too many projects, too little time.

23 power
 

I run an F250 on my "99 SeaCraft23. I think that if I was to repower, I would seriously consider an etec 300.

I have twin f300's on my conch 27,great motors!, having run a few different props including rev4's I was pleasantly surprised with the performance of the yamaha saltwater series props with SDS for my boat the 21pitch Yamaha SWS with SDS performed better across the board than 19 Rev4's the anti clunk on the SDS is a bonus as well

I have been leaning toward a four blade sds Yamaha just for the shift dampening so it is good to get that feedback. I kept the merc props from old engines and that gives me 17p and 19p 3 blades, and a 19p 4 blade to try out. I should get a good idea before plunking down the money for a new Yamaha prop. If Prop Gods traveled this far up in the Fl Panhandle I would definitely use their services.
The time till splash has been extended. I decided last week to hang the motor on a 6" Atlas hydraulic jack plate. Ordered it but the factory was closed thru holidays. Supposed to ship on the 6th or 7th. Can't stand the anticipation so I am going to get everything rigged so I can use it, and then worry about painting the bottom later. The motor looks good setting in its crate on the shop floor, but would look a lot better on the transom.

Ken/PropGods uses UPS for shipping. He will send props to your door to try. Iffin they are what you want, great. If not, re-box the "as new" props back up and call UPS for a pick-up. Select again based on the test results. It will cost you a little freight but the miles in between really doesn't matter a lot, it is his wealth of prop knowledge that will be worth the call. :D

Update
 

Motor rigged and now I am not so patently waiting for some decent weather to seatrial. The mechanic ran it for a short 15 minutes and reported 51 mph at 5400 rpm at wot burning 26 gph. The numbers should be better as he ran with the jack plate all the way down and I had them bolt the motor low enough on the plate so that the ventilation plate was even with the bottom of the boat. With the six inch setback I should be able to run the plate up at least two inches before it even starts to cavitate. Should pick up a couple hundred rpm along with a few mph. He didn't check fuel burn at cruise but 2 mpg at wot is pretty damn good for not even being trimmed out on the plate. Will 3mpg at cruise be possible as I had hoped? This is all with a 19p 3 blade Merc Mirage Plus, two people and half tank of fuel. No ice or beer on boat. I will correct that unloaded condition when I seatrial. He reports prop chatter is quite loud at idle speed in gear so a Yami SDS prop will be forthcoming. Will update with final thoughts and numbers after weather allows me to get it dialed in.
[IMG]http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4c88de5b.jpg[/IMG]

Where are the pics?? :)

Sounds llike a great motor, lets see the boat !

Sir! That's a very nice teaser pic, however if you have not noticed we enjoy lots of boat porn!! :)

Very nice!! And yes, we love pictures!

I run an 11 inch plate and am at least 3" up from level. 5400 max sounds over propped but I wouldn't even consider that a fact until it was at least 1.5" up from level and tested. With that adjustment made I would be hunting a prop that is within less than 200 rpm from hitting max on a light load. When you get it right I'm willing to bet you get 50 knots on a light load and up to 3 mpg at a 30 kt cruise. Great choice..... more pics!

always, Always, ALWAYS prop for Max of Max at Max.
Maximum limit of
Maximum rpm range at
Maximum gross loading.

For example: If your maximum rpm range is 5400-5800 rpms,
and your maximum vessel load (persons, motor, fuel, & gear) is 3180 lbs
(12 persons, 75 gallons, 350 lbs gear, 500 lb motor)
then you should be able to reach 5800 rpms with the full 3180 lbs loaded into your boat, properly trimmed and loaded.

You can add another "performance" propeller, but your primary prop should be able to do this. It's just good sense, people.

If something happens and you end up taking on water, your bilge pump fails, or you just need to really to be able to harness the torque and horsepower of your motor to get you back, you will NOT get back in a timely fashion if you're propped for performance.

Propping for Max of Max at Max can save your boat, it can save your motor, and it can save your life.

Nice package, perfect engine for that 23'. 46K would be a reasonable top end target from a single 300. Should easily do a relaxed 24K cruise at 8-9 GPH.

Update with a few more pics
 

Got to run the boat briefly last weekend. 3 people, about 110 gal of fuel, no ice or tackle. Mirage Plus is not the prop for this setup. Calculated slip at 26% at fast cruise and jack plate at 2" with 50" motor trim. Need more bite. Next up will be a 17p 4 blade Rev 4. Did see 3mpg but it was at 25mph cruise. That is about 10 mph slower than I want to cruise when running the bays or Intracoastal but it is about right for 3 to 4' in the GOM. One interesting note was that it got on plane quicker with the jackplate set at 2" than it did with the plate all the way down.


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WOT with 2" on the plate and 50% motor trim. A little water in the air:


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The stern does sit higher in the water than it did with the twin 150's. 200 lbs less on the transom made a lot of difference even with the 6" setback. Here is a pic of the boat when I purchased it with the old bottom paint on it. Waterline was at the worn off area just below the top of bottom paint.


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How she floats now:


[IMG]http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/...psedbe9d04.jpg[/IMG]


And another:


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One of the best modifications I made was to move the steering wheel to port side instead of the factory centered position. Now a second person can sit on the leaning post without constantly being in the way.


[IMG]http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4fac6af7.jpg[/IMG]


Will be awhile before another update. I am in the process of removing the last of the bottom paint and replacing it with a gloss blue silicone impregnated super slick paint. Never did like ablative bottom paint on a trailered boat. Also adding center bunks to the trailer to help protect the new paint.


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Very, very sweet!!! I would love to have almost 3 mpg at cruising!! The 3800 @ 28 mph is very close to what I get, however no where near 2.7 mpg....more like 1.5. Great job!!!

Yea that's really, really nice! You may want to talk to www.propgods.com about getting it right.

The Rev 4 is a great prop and will give you lots of grip and stern lift. Keep us updated.

The rev4 will be great with that setup. That prop likes to ride higher than the mirage plus. With that jack plate You should be able to get it dialed in. Congrats on a sweet ride and new motor.

What is the name of that fancy paint you're putting on the bottom? I just removed all the bottom paint from my Formula 233 and the boat will be trailer kept, I was going to IP 2000 first but still not sure about the top coat. Nice boat BTW

Thanks for the compliment. Always a work in progress.
I went with SM 1000 by Supermarine. http://supermarinepaint.com/marinepa...allon-3p10.htm
Primed two coats of their epoxy primer. Should have used the etching primer which would have sanded easier. I went with the gloss finish topcoat and wanted to sand the primer down to 220 grit. What a bitch. Spent two days rolling around on that creeper sanding with a pneumatic random orbit and went through two boxes of sanding discs. I may be getting too old for that, plus you can't drink beer on your back while wearing a respirator so the mundane nature of the job is intensified.
The paint is warranted for 10 years of continuous submersion. I sprayed it with a pressure pot and a Sata gun but the paint has a high solids content and I had problems atomizing it with the 1.3 mm tip. I would think a 2mm tip setup would work better. If I had more of their thinner I would have diluted 20% and it would have flowed better. I also added their optional activator and found out it will cause the paint to start to set in the pot and lines overnight even in 50 degree temps. :(
Turned out fine in the end and if later on I chose to wet sand and buff it will look as good if not better than factory jelcoat.

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you are creating my dream boat. keep the pics and performance posts coming

Sweet setup looking great and good luck!!

Hey seasick, I have a 2000 sea craft and I have a brand new f300 on its way. I was wondering if you ever got the engine dialed in and, if so, what the performance numbers on the 19 inch prop are after the adjustments you indicated previously that you were going to make? I have been debating whether the 19 pitch is the correct size. Thanx in advance. Your boat looks great, btw…………...

Propping
 

Not yet. Boat is still on the stands. Putting it back on the trailer Saturday and splashing it Sunday. I am going to run a 4 blade Merc Vensura that I have which will give me a little better idea before I start spending money on trial props from Prop Gods. Will post updates.

That's a bad ass engine

Update
 

After playing with a few props I settled on a Yamaha Saltwater Series 2 with SDS. 15 1/2" x 17p. With my configuration I needed more of a bow lift than a stern lift prop. Much better #'s than anything so far. Now turning 5800, 47 mph at 2.1 mpg. This was with 4 persons, 75 gal fuel and running dead into a 15 knot wind and about a 1' chop. With two persons and calm conditions I feel like I could coax 6000 and around 50 mph out of it. 35 to 36 mph yields 2.7 mpg. Optimum cruise was 3800, 30 mph and 3mpg.:) Drop to 27 mph and saw 3.1 to 3.2 mpg but boat feels much more responsive at 30+. Hole shot is almost as good as when I was running the twin 150's. Only other thing I may do is to have just a tad more cup put on the tips to see if that allows me to run the motor a little higher. Can't quite run the jack plate high enough to get the ventilation plate level with the top of the water before prop starts to slip.
The SDS is a nice bonus. Although it is not entirely silent gear engagement it is real close. With the Mercs I would cringe every time I threw them in gear. I could just visualize teeth being sheared off the gears. I have owned 7 different Mercs and never got used to that.

Final numbers are in. I had 30 thousands added to the cup on the prop. It holds much better on the elevated settings on the jack plate but I don't see much difference in performance with the higher settings. Ran it light for the first time today and there is not a whole lot of difference in performance loaded or light. The boat continues to impress me every time I have the chance to take it out. A 250 4.2 offshore would probably give close to the same performance turning a 17p prop but would have less of a hole shot and would not be able to handle the increased cup which helped a lot. I was able to turn up 5900 rpm which resulted in 49.6 mph on the gps. 1.9 mpg. This was running with a 1' + chop in the bay. Rock solid ride for the minute that I kept it there. The boat really cruises best at 36 mph giving 2.9 mpg. I am really pleased with this motor.
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9406b8b1.jpg

Those are "sick" numbers, I'd use my boat more often if I could get almost 3 mpg instead of 1.5 mpg, which is on it's best day running down hill with wind at my back!!! I can do simple math.....that's half the cost for gas on a day's fishing trip. Great job!!

I just bought the f300 and took delivery of it in March. I have watched this thread closely. I tried a number of props and settled on the 18 inch pitch prop (saltwater series). This prop is so new that the dealer did not even know it existed. Anyhow, I discovered it on the net. It helped that my neighbor has the exact same engine with a number of props to play with (he is a fishing guide). The 18 pitch has a diameter of 15 1/4" …. I get 51/52 mph at 5800 rpms. The rev limiter will kick in at about 5900 -6000 rpms. there is no reason to exceed 5900…….. I have a 2000 sea craft with t-top. I don't recall the gas consumption at wide open…. At 3700 rpms I get 31 mph and I am at 3.1 mpg. ……….This is all with about 80 gallons of gas on the boat and two people and light gear. I just thought I would share…..