Hail Yeah back under the knife
 

Have you ever wanted to throw up when you started working on your boat? I had that feeling tonight. My son and I began deconstruction tonight and I think its bad. If you have looked at my previous posts there are some real concerns. We got the livewell out, t-top off, deck hatches over tank removed. This looks rough and I have not even gotten to the parts that were my original concern. Here are a few pics. Let me know your thoughts. My first thought was, this will make a great reef.

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The stringers on both sides of the tank are pretty rough looking. Not sure what the tank is/was sitting on, but it looks like the tank has dropped down. Will try to get the console out tomorrow.

It may be easier to pull the top cap and then pull the liner - I think that is how Strick did one of his (20?). Based on all the cracking you have seen so far, the putty between the liner and stringers may be kinda weak now. It looks like you have a good shop to work in so that helps. If you get the liner out in one piece, you can probably flip the liner over and work on the deck from the back side. If you end up doing it that way, remember to have a set of work braces holding the hull in shape while you are working. If I remember right you had it redone a few years ago so I'm guessing you don't have to mess with the transom.

Good luck - at least the outside still looks great and it will be much stronger when you are done.

Take a look at these photos.
http://www.fandbboatworks.com/restor..._seacraft.html
He cut the deck out rather than pulling the cap and liner. It also shows the glassed in wooden pads you were talking about in the stern.

Hopefully the tanks will come out easy tomorrow.
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Flexpat,
Thanks for the link. I have been studying those pics. We are finding a few issues as we go. The stringers have damage where the screws holding the tank cut through them. The tank had broken loose and slid back about 6". The bulk head in the front directly under the step up is completely loose. You can move it with your hand.

What is the best thing to use to clean out the interior of the hull once the floor and tanks are removed? Would like to get the tanks out, floor cut out and interior cleaned this weekend.
Thanks

Vacuum all the big stuff out then you can rinse the bare fiberglass with water to get all the dust off then let it dry. It's s a good idea to wipe any surface down with acetone prior to glassing it.

strick

Don't know how much the tank bounced around but 300-400 lbs of fuel in a tank makes a pretty good battering ram. I would check the tank welds very closely before I put it back in...

Should sand that tank down good and coat it with interlux barrier coat a few times before putting it back in, that is if there are no leaks or cracks on the fittings anywhere. There is going to be some foam and potter putty to take out once the deck comes up.

Here some pics I took a while back of one I did.

Thanks for the responses and pics. Helps a lot.

Here is the latest update. Got the floor out and cut the bottom out of the fish box. The entire front bulk has broken loose. Not sure how the best way to put that back in? You can move it side to side with your hands. Could this be the reason for the cracking and hole in the bow? There is a pic of the hole from the inside. It is the pic that looks like coconut hair. Stringers look rough where the tank beat them up, but forward they look good. Hard to tell how wet the foam is in the stringers, I found a couple of spots where it is wet. Would the best approach be to take all the foam out of the stringers just in case?

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Ok, another dumb question. Why would you have a power block like this in the bilge?

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That's got something to do with it. I had a 1978 20' Contental that did the same thing. She got ran hard in some close chop in the Pamlico sound near hobucken (you may know this area since your from nc too) and the repetitive beating knocked the forward bulkhead loose plus tore threw similar to yours. Mainly my fault for running it so hard and beating the he'll out of it but the way I look at it she will hold up or not. This time she didnt. I would think a seacraft would do better but there could of been other issues in the lay up maybe?

Maybe this is the reason for a recommended trapezoidal foam spacer between the bulkhead and hull, to spread the load and remove hard spots?

FishStretcher,
Huh? I need more info on that one.

http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...5&postcount=31

Dave Gerr's book mentions that trapezoidal spacer requirement. The PDF linked in that post shows a floated bulkhead and elastomer in the gap and to create the fillet.

I assume it (the USCG mandated spacer for certain boats- T-boats?) looks like pic # 2 here:

http://www.bateau2.com/howto/foam_phantom.php

I understand the concept but haven't actually implemented it yet in glass and foam or wood. I did something a bit similar on a 30 ton aluminum boat- but that's more like a skin doubler.

FS,
I don't even know what to say. That is so far over my head, that I don't even know how to communicate what I don't understand? You didn't graduate from GA Southern I'm betting. I think I understand this, the original design may not be good? I cut out a larger section of the step up today so I could get the existing bulkhead out and see what was going on under the fish box. Each corner of the fish box is sitting in two big piles of potter's putty that is only a couple of inches from the bulkhead. I thought that this bond between the hull and the fish box may be contributing to the problem. I will try to get some pics of it tomorrow.

It looks to me like someone may have replaced the tank and removed the foam in there adding that front bulkhead and maybe removing some key foam. The tank looks like it broke loose, maybe whatever they put underneath it was not tied in well and stable and the tank was not bolted well. Here is a picture of my 74 SF. There was a block of foam in both the front and rear of the coffin and those were both on the top of that bottom tank board, no wood bulkheads at all. The front foam block starts further forward of where your bulkhead is, you can barely see it in this picture.

One other thing that struck me as odd in on your boat is the scupper in the one photo doesn't look factory at all.

I agree with fishstrecher on the "Hard Spots" (a very common cause for tears in a hull like you got). I might can dumb it down, I would think of a hard spot as where the bulk head meets the hull or and other item such as the bond between the fish box and hull with the potter putty as being an area where the load is not spread out correctly over a wide area. The bonding point is a sharp or small area that applies all the force to a given spot. Filets and the trapezoid spaces mention help spread the force out to more of the hull and not the one spot. If all the force is not spread and applied to one area it can be more prone to failure.


It usually takes me reading multiable examples, pictures, and then I still have trouble understanding this type stuff. Im still learning each day myself and feel like Im just now starting to make since of some of it. hopefully this will help some if im on the right track.

Think of the trapezoid as a softer edge that goes all along the bottom of the bulkhead and already has a fillet attached (no putty fillet required) to make the tabbing follow an easy angle instead of a hard 90. It ends up working like a shock absorber and keeps the bulkhead from working like a really dull blade on a shear and cutting (breaking) the hull.

I am not sure but I think the bulkhead is also supposed to keep the stringers separated when the hull panels flex in the forward section. By being glassed to the stringers on the side I think the loads get spread across the stringer area too. With the bulkhead broken out I think you were getting really high loads on the forward edges of the stringers where they attach to the hull so any cracks there would get worse.

I went back and read the info again last night. It was definitely clearer. The first time I read it I think I blacked out for a minute. Thanks for all the feedback guys it really helps.

Normagain, The tank in mine was replaced some years ago by the previous owner. It was essentially a lesson on how not to install a fuel tank. It was truly a mess. Is there a difference in how the 20' and 23's casting deck was installed. Looks like your 20 has the foam and no bulk head. I think the bulkhead on my 23 is original?

The casting platforms in 20's & 23' look the same on top but how it is under them is different. The 20's don't have any bulkheads in them.

It's all making a little more sense. I guess when the bulkhead broke free, the main support became the two corners of the fish box? Hopefully I will be able to get the bulkhead back in next week. I am going to follow the suggestions and try to put a trapezoidal foam spacer in.

Yer gonna need this,
http://www.ehow.com/how_8181707_calc...oximation.html
:D

Ummmmmmm. Nevermind on the trapezoidal foam spacer.

What you need is fig newton approximation. :)

Just cut some foam. It has to be 2x the foam thickness plus the thickness of the bulkhead. Then cut (rip) 45 chamfers down each edge. You wind up with a flat on top that the bulkhead sits on nicely.

Now, that's just good comedy.

Yeah Dave, I agree!! I looked at it and closed the site, then went and made another drink and tried to remember how much I hated that formula stuff in school.!!!

Holy crap! I never would have guessed that removing the foam from the stringers would be such a PITA. At least we are one step closer to being able to put this thing back together.
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Replacing fuel hoses right?

Yes, we are gonna replace them. Just been lazy and have not taken them out yet.

One thing on the list to do is to move the livewell and washdown intakes. I have always hated the way the livewell pump was mounted. It is the tall one on the left. The washdown is right next to the transducer. I have plenty of room between where they are mounted now and the transom. What is the best way to mount the thru hulls? What is the best way to fill the holes from the old thru hulls?
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Glass some blocks down and run a true sea-cock valve. My washdown pickup comes off the bottom plugged fitting on the bait pump. Or you could "t" off the sea cock.

It feels like I should be a lot further along than I am. Frustrating. Here are some updated pics. Doesn't look like much progress has been made, but I swear I have been working on it. I have repaired the damaged stringers, capped the top of the stringers with Coosa board , tabbed the front bulkhead into place and have the foam in the stringers. Damn what a mess that is. Got to be an easier way to do that.

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I'm finally going to switch the throttles and the steering wheel. Never could get used to the European model.

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I also cut out a spot in the rear wall to put the fuel filters, fuel switches and fuel bulbs up out of the bilge. There were 2- 8" inspection plates on each side. I went ahead and cut those out a little bigger and will use them for sinker/downrigger ball storage.
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I think that's all for now. Hopefully some leaps and bounds are coming. Next on the list is go over the each stringer completely with glass, then hopefully mock up the floor, put foam on the outbound side of the stringers, and I think I'm going to try to foam in the front fish box. Not sure if I'm going to be able to reuse my old fuel tanks or will have to order news ones. I just don't want to have to wait 6 weeks for them.

You doin' it.

What pound is that coosa?

26

Still stuck in low gear, grinding along. Yesterday I got the hatch receivers for the new transom boxes completed and the hatches cooking now. I will pop them out tomorrow. The receivers came out pretty good, hopefully the hatches will do as well.

Putting the pieces together.
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Laying down the duratec.
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CSM laid down.
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Receivers popped out.
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A couple of hatches set up.
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You do nice work there, Bud. Good job.

Slowly moving forward. Seems like its one step forward and three backwards.

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Started making a template for the floor today. Depending on what happens with the fuel tank, we may be able to start on the floor next week or if I have to order a new one it may be in two months?
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