90 ETEC on a Potter 20 CC???
 

I have been lurking on this site for quite a while and I am impressed with the amount of knowledge that is shared. I am looking downsizing my current boat and getting a 20 Ft CC Seacraft – probably a project. It just seems like a good fit for the kind of fishing I do in S. Florida and the Gulf. I am a bit of a do-it-yourselfer and I would like to have a boat that is “of my own making” so to speak.
When I first started looking I thought (and still do) that an older “light” hull with a bracket and a Suzuki 140 was a good power option. After reading quite a bit about the motors this hull was designed for, and with my own experience with the way motor weight affect the ride, I am leaning towards the 90 ETEC on a bracket instead. I have owned a few boats and been on a few more and the ones that impress me the most are the ones that were properly balanced, not the ones with the most powerful motor. Fast is nice but smallish boats that are well balanced just seem to do everything well. My current ride is a Hydrasports 230 WA with a Yamaha 200 OX66. It’s a little over 24’ and well over 5K ready to fish and I can cruise at 25 – 28 and hit 42 – 44 WOT. I have been on the same boat with a Yamaha F250 and it really doesn’t do much better (it is a little faster WOT and gets better fuel economy but that is just the newer motor technology). I actually like the way my boat rides better with the smaller motor.
That being said, does anyone know how the Potter 20’s do with the 90 ETEC? I figure that setting a motor back 2’ from the transom is mechanically the same as adding weight to the transom so the 140 Suzuki at 410lbs + mechanical leverage + bracket weight may be pushing the limit. I wonder if the 90 ETEC is a better fit at 320lbs. I know there are folks here with 200’s on this hull and they don’t have a problem with it; I just think the best performance (fuel economy and ride) for my type of boating comes from optimal weight distribution. I go offshore quite a bit and I am a diver so the closed transom and bracket with a platform is a must have. I would also have a T-Top for 360 degree unobstructed fishing.
Any help would be appreciated.

E-tec 90 on 20' Seacraft
 

John, If you "mash" on my name it will take you to my 'Members Page". If you go there, on the right side one of the albums is the Dredge Marshtackie. It was a 19' (-6") 1967 Seacraft Bowrider I cut up to make room for sheets of plywood and PT 16' - 2" X 12"'s I need to haul to Cayo Costa (but, it wasn't a Safari like afishin82's). It is very light - like a Seacraft "Panga" would be. No center console, no windshield, no tee top - just a little side console like a 13' whaler and a bimini. I glassed a couple of tabs on each side and have a "drop in" bulk head to stop the dive tanks and coolers from walkin' back and mash'in my toes, because we sit in the back like a flats boat. Just fall over the side and climb in the back ladder. Hit and Run, brother.
I ran a 120 VRO on it from 1998 to 2007 and then downsized to a 90 e-tec. The VRO was only happy at 4,000 and I played throttle man all day when I need to run easy because it was rough off of Bayport where it is very shallow for long way out. The little 80 cubic inch E-tec triple planes off 4 divers, 9 tanks, fish and food coolers and 4 sets of dive gear at 3200, runs happily at 34-3600 and makes about 18 knots there. Spooled up to 5800, she'll touch 30 knots with that load. The best deal is that my trips off of Bayport or down to Sarasota to raid Conner and Danny's hogfish spots are usually between 60 and 80 miles - I have never put 22 gallons in the boat to top it back off. I understand the E-tec 90's actually puts out 102 Hp at he prop shaft. Be sure to include a new fuel tank and 10 micron fuel filter in your project costs. If you run a slug of H2O through that DI system it is painfully expensive. The 90's do not have water sensors. That day I was really glad it only has three cylinders.
Circle back if you find something that is interesting for a project and don't be too quick to break out the saw-zall. Learn from all our mistakes.

Thanks for the input! It looks like you have almost what I want. I would guess that your rig is a little lighter than a 20 with a few bells & whistles but it's good to see the performance you are getting with the 90 ETEC.
Are the hogfish spots you are raiding in the middle grounds? that's a pretty good haul from Tampa area in a 19' boat - and damn impressive fuel #'s.

Dude, 60-80 miles round trip, not 60-80 miles out, in the Middle Grounds! I ain't that crazy! I get 3.5 miles per gallon average, with that load. Those hogfish are from 50' of water off of Sarasota and 25' of water off of Bayport. We went scouting Memorial Day weekend at Bayport for the Gag's, which don't open until July 1st here in the Gulf from 35' to 25' of water. Picked up our limit of hogs and a couple of Red Groupers over 20", but saw "Toad" Gags everywhere. I saw one in 25' of water that I swear was 4' long and had the girt of a 5 gallon bucket. NOAA and National Marine Fisheries are Clueless!

John, everybody on this site has a prettier boat than mine. The Marshtackie is an "Axe", but I believe the best thing about a Seacraft is the part under the water you don't see. They are a great "fishing" platform, even if you use 5' Stainless Steel plugs, while on "life support". Mine works pretty good just as Carl designed it with a splash well and a 360# motor. I'm think'in a 25" - 115 E-tec with a raised 25" transom well and manual adjustable 5" offset jackplate like Kmoose is running would be close to what Denny ran all over the Bahamas with in the 80's with a 115 Cross-flow Johnson on his Safari. Be careful with mess'in with too much, or you will change the "center of buoyancy" and you'll start "hobby Horse'in".

http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...reply&p=227205

John, you and I are on exactly the same page regarding engine power and weight! Based on Terry's info, I think the 90 E-TEC would do exactly what you want, but here's another relevant data point: I ran my Seafari for 31 years with a 300 lb 1975 115 V-4 (rated at powerhead) on the transom, which probably developed just about the same power at the prop as Terry's 90 E-TEC, although it was a 100 cu. in. powerhead, so it may have had a bit more mid-range torque. Although the bare hull of the Seafari weighs 1800 lbs, vs 1400 for the CC and 1300 for the 19' Bowrider, it rode VERY well, planing at about 12 mph, and cruising at about 20 kts @ 4500 rpm with a very heavy Bahamas-type load (ran it over to Green Turtle, Gt. Guana and Man-O'War Cays in the Abaco's a half dozen times back in the late 70's/early 80's).

On one trip with large following seas, I learned that there's an advantage to having a small motor wound up pretty tight. At 4500, when I started "uphill" on a swell, I found it starting to fall off plane, so I bumped the throttle up to 4600-4700, and problem solved, no more throttle jockeying required! It would easily hold plane going uphill, since peak torque occurred at maybe 47-4800! One time with the motor off, I had someone move and mark the control lever while I watched the throttle & spark advance linkage. I discovered that for about the first 75% or so of throttle travel, all it did was advance the spark;the throttle plates barely moved! The throttle plates opened almost 90 degrees during that last 25% of control travel, and they were just beginning to move at a typical 4500 rpm cruise setting. When I got up to around 47-4800 the motor got much louder (visualize a toilet flushing as all 4 carbs started to open up!), accompanied by a similar increase in torque!

When I repowered with a much heavier motor on a bracket, the effects on ride and min planing speed of the shifted CG, which I think moved aft about 18", were dramatic and quite negative! (The details are described in my "Pros & Cons of Brackets" thread.) With the 427 lb "150" E-TEC (165 HP at prop) on a 30" bracket, optimum cruise is at 37-3800 and about 23-24 kts and 7 gph. In 3' seas, the boat will be airborne about half the time at that speed, so I'd have to slow down to about 20 kts! That's down around 31-3200 rpm, and although the motor actually gets the best fuel economy at that speed in flat water, it's clearly on a very steep part of the torque curve at that point, because speed is not very stable. When trimmed for max economy at ~20 kts, even a slight wind gust or wake will cause it to start slowing down, so much throttle jockeying is required to hold a steady speed unless I change engine trim or tab setting. If it gets rough, I can drop the tabs and trim motor down and ride very comfortably sitting down 8' fwd of transom in 3' seas at about 12 kts, but fuel economy REALLY drops off! In that situation, I think a 90 hp motor wound up higher on it's torque curve with a larger (more thermodynamically efficient) throttle opening would burn less fuel and require less throttle jockeying than a bigger motor.

The 19 & 20' hulls are virtually identical below the chines, since Moesly modified a 19' mold to make the 20 (see Carla's website at http://www.moeslyseacraft.com/20-cc-seacraft.html), so Terry's performance numbers would apply equally to a 20. If you add a bracket, I would minimize the setback (Don Herman can build his with 18, 24 or 30" of setback), and try to move the gas tank and console far enough forward to keep from moving the CG. Couldn't do that in the Seafari, so I've had to run a 4B prop and a Doelfin to get enough stern lift for acceptable min planing speed. The extra drag of those items have knocked about 10 mph off my WOT speed, so, although I love the bracket for diving, the extra space it provides and the safety of the solid transom, the performance improvement claims of a bracket are very misleading and way overblown IMHO!

You could also consider the new 90 HO, which is actually a detuned 115 V-4 with a V-6 lower unit and a 2.25:1 gear ratio instead of the 2.0:1 of the 90. It's 105 cu. in. vs 79 cubes on the 90 so it'd be a torque monster! Probably cheaper than a 115, but also MUCH (70 lbs!) heavier than a 90, so you'd be better balanced with the 90. Good luck with your decision! I probably haven't made it any easier! Denny

Thanks for the clarification Terry, pardon my Ignorance!!! I don't really know the west coast very well. I was honestly expecting better than 3.5 MPG but that is certainly respectable by any measure. I go to Homosassa a few times every summer to catch scallops with the kids (which is one reason why I want a smaller, more towable boat) but I haven't found any hogfish spots yet. I am planning on searching for gags in July - we will see how that goes. My brother went last year and did really well shooting them. He said he never went past 12' of water. Just have to find a big rock on the bottom and they are there!
Thanks for the affirmation on going small Denny. I looked at the 90 HO but I would rather leave off the weight. If I can run 20-25 with a fishing or diving load and get over 3MPG then I am good with that. I like the idea of making a Bahamas run on occasion too (another reason to put fuel economy high on the priority list). I have gone a few times over the years and I feel the call when the yellowfin tuna are biting. It used to be commonplace to cross in a 20' boat but that is sometimes frowned upon in the last 10 years or so. I really don't have a problem crossing in a small boat on those flat summer days as long as I take a few precautions.

Performance Comments ONLY !!!!
 

JohnC, We are supposed to stay focused like a laser beam on "Performance" on this part of the website or we're going to be in "agua caliente" with Denny. Drop down to Gatherings or Off Topic / Fishing and we'll hash the west coast fishing opportunities. Besides I'm "hanging on by a thread" of even being allowed to post because I'm almost as disruptive as Gofastsandman, Blue Heron, Donny V, both Kennys and other assorted scallawags which are like modern day grammatical pirates who come here and leave there dang run-on sentences, conjugated verbs and dangling participles festooned about this site.

Therefore, to remedy the aforementioned, please be advised that it is my personal opinion and not necessarily the official position of BRP, their dealers, employees and/or customers that the 90 E-tec, being a three cylinder engine, which puts the crankshaft at 120 degrees causes it to be a "Harmonically balanced design". (Find a radial aircraft engine with and even number of cylinders!) If you go to Homestead and look round for some 40 year old Massey Ferguson tractor or go out to the sod farms out by "the lake" and find some '68 Ford forklift or go to the high rise and find an old beat up diesel Lincoln welder still working everyday you will notice that they have 3 cylinder engines on 'em.

The little 79 cubic inch triple delivers buckets of mid-range torque because I think they may be ported differently than the 115's because they don't have an adjustable expansion chamber. I ran aluminum wheels for 6 years then Ken at Prop Gods in Sarasota sent me a 13-1/4" X 14" Power Tech because I hit the rev. limiter with the 13 and could only turn 4800 with the 15. He hit the "sweet spot".

(Pssst - I'll meet you at "The Freezer" in Homosassa and we'll figure out where the scallops, grouper and hogfish are and discuss this shit in detail over a beer and some shrimp)

John, I think you will at least match Terry's mpg numbers and will probably do better if you're not carrying the huge load that he does. His motor is basically 1/2 of my V-6, so I'm running 2X the displacement, but per the I-Command system which gets fuel flow from computer and speed from GPS, I will get 3.7-4.0 mpg at a normal cruise in flat water and at least 3.0-3.5 running in typical offshore conditions. However the E-TEC is extremely efficient at low speeds when it's running in the stratified charge mode (I burn 0.5 gph at 5 mph and about 900 rpm!), so when you factor in low speed operation (and we do have a lot of idle speed/manatee zones around here!), my overall average is about 4.3-4.4 mpg. On this trip I made a few years ago http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...avigation+trip I was really loaded with a couple of big coolers and cruising gear. I actually weighed a lot of the gear we carried and figure the total boat weight, including a couple of average size 175-185 lb guys, was about 3800-4000 lbs, but we still averaged almost 4.4 mpg over the entire ~700 mile trip!

Regarding the Bahamas trip, folks used to say I was nuts to run 160-180 miles to the Abaco's in a single engine 20' outboard boat. My reply was that my spare engine was on that other boat I was running with! The key is to have a buddy boat! Mine was the Moesly 21, the "Unohu". Pics below show a typical Bahamas type load . . . wall to wall gas cans and coolers; the cabin is also crammed full of gear!

I think you will be happiest with a 90 in a notch. 25" shaft, if you can do it. And a kicker that runs from a 2nd tank. You will be lighter than my equivalent setup in a 4 stroke setup, so you might not need stern lifting props or fins, so you would be faster and more efficient. I think you wouldn't need tabs ( I don't).

Play with props to wring the most out of your rig. You can get ~ 40% more power down to the water with an optimal versus not so good prop. I am still not optimal, but getting there. That's like 115 thrust from a 90. For no more weight. And less cost.

I know you can do it and be happy with the results. I run a new generation Suzuki 90 25" on the transom of an 18'. I can cruise at 28 mph and top out at 38 mph light. More weight drops cruise to around 24 mph. I get up to 7 mpg at cruise and the boat is very responsive, gets on plane quickly, and stays there down to about 13 mph. I would never go back to a heavier motor on these hulls. The way this boat rides with a light engine on the notch is infinitely better than with more power and more weight.
Look at the Suzuki 90 and compare performance reports of similar or equal hulls. I studied all of this info for weeks before committing to the Suzuki. It's a tad heavier, but pushed the same hulls faster with less fuel. It also has a higher final drive ratio which allows you to use a bigger prop. I run a stainless 14x18 3 blade with a cup.
I think there's something to be said for rigging small boats light with lower power. A friend just put a 40 hp tiller 4-stroke on an old aquasport 17 and cruises between 20 and 25 mph tops 29 mph. Here in Miami you're not going any faster in these small boats anyway.

Great thread guys, I really appreciate all the experience and info. I'm looking at hanging an outboard on my previously i/o 74 seafari, and have been seriously considering a Suzuki 90.

Steve

Don't let Terry scare you off of going out to the Middle Grounds! It is literally the best grouper fishing in the entire Gulf of Mexico! (Lots of Goliath Grouper/Jewfish though, which you can't keep, even though I remember them as VERY tasty).

I ran my 1972 20' Seafari out to the Florida Middle Grounds from Cedar Key (210 miles round-trip) in front of three different motors: twice with a '77 120 hp Chrysler, once with a '91 XR4 150 Mercury, and finally, twice with an '06 90 Mercury Optimax. I never had a problem mechanically, but I did always take kicker motor.

Like Denny, I never made a 100+ mile trip like that alone, but always in the company of other boats, usually with a larger (40+) Cruiser for a floating "hotel" while we were out there. Let's face it, 105 miles at 20-25 mph is a LOOONG ride. (I do confess to making the crossing to the Bahamas alone many, many times, though, in a variety of boats.)

With my 120 Chrysler, I got about 3.7-3.9 mpg average at 22-23 mph.
With my 150 Mercury, I got about 2.9-3.0 mpg at 25-26 mph, and
with my 2006 20" 375lb 90hp Optimax, I got 5.7 mpg at about 25 mph.

The 90 Etec I now believe to be a better choice than the Optimax, mostly because of the weight and much better reliability. Fuel economy is reportedly now as good or better, too. I have a parishioner with a new 2013 90 Etec on a 1700 lb Key West 186, and he insists he is averaging over 6.5 mpg here in Choctawhatchee bay. It's so quiet, that when we're fishing together I have to look back to see if the motor is running at idle, if the stereo is on.

I also agree that you should raise the transom to 25" if you haven't already, and forgo the bracket. CG is very important in Moesly hulls.

I've seen some intriguing performance discussion around here for the Etec 90 on a 20 footer. Also, added performance discussion regarding brackets. Which would have a greater impact on performance with the Etec 90 on a 20': a bracket or hydraulic jack plate? If one went with a 14" jack plate, would that forego the need for the added performance from the bracket?

I'd opt for hanging a E-tec 90 on the transom. The beauty of the 90 is its weight to power ratio. Its the closest thing to the weight of the early 115 2-strokes, with nearly equivalent power, and 2-3x the fuel efficiency.

Only my opinion, but I wouldn't trade the possibility of a 2-3 mph gain on the top end for the balance and handling the transom mount would offer.

How severe would the trade off be? The bracket with swim platform is a must for me, also considering a 90hp etec or suzuki for the most fuel efficient setup. Looking at a 24" setback

I think the main trade off is simply in re-balancing the boat in any of the traditional ways. Slide the console forward a bit, move batteries or fuel tank forward or add ballast forward. Or better yet, get a couple of babes to ride with you and place them where you need them. Might be as simple as having 2 riders for of the console:D.

I don't think it would be nearly as dramatic as if you were moving the additional 100lbs of a 150 hp motor 2' aft, but some re-balancing would be in order.

Great thread guys. I'm still scratching my head. I have a 20' Overnighter with a hermco bracket installed. The liner on my boat is the same a the seafari with a different cap. I've enclosed the transom, moved batteries forward of the fuel tank and replaced the 47 gal tank with a shorter 35 gal tank. The 150's seem like overkill but I also don't want to be underpowered. I'm getting close to the point of buying a motor but can't decide which way to go.

To be honest I've never had this boat in the water, so I have no experience with its performance. Any input would certainly help.

20' Seacraft Overnighter Re-power
 

20' Low-rider Safari (Overnighter) with Hermco Bracket -
Recommendation #1 - Get the 25" 115hp E-tec. They make 129 hp at the output shaft and use a 150 hp lower unit with 2.25 to 1 gears. They are the smallest engine you can get the I-Command gauges with and study everything you could possibly want to know. You'll need to by a couple of gallons of oil a year and need to add about $1.25 - $1.50 per hour of running time for the three year
service interval. I think you may "touch" 35 MPH with a 15 X 17" wheel and will not use more than 25 gallons per day running daylight to dark.

Recommendation #2 - Find a good Salt Water Series 130 Yamaha, Suzuki DF-140, V-4 130/140 hp Carb. OMC, or an older 150 hp 2 two stroke carb Merc., bolt it up and let it eat. Do you know how much gas you can buy for the possible 1 to 1.5 MPG you might gain for $6,000.00? You could run the Great Circle Route twice before you made up the difference!

The "added performance from a bracket" claim is misleading. The reason you might pick up 2-3 mph in WOT speed with a bracket is that it shift's the CG aft by about whatever the setback is. That makes it easier to get the bow up to reduce wetted surface and drag in flat water. What the bracket makers DON'T tell you is that, UNLESS you rebalance the boat by moving gas tank, batteries and console forward enough to eliminate the CG shift, adding a bracket will significantly increase your min planing speed and hurt the ride!

Although I added a galley seat to my Seafari that added a little weight forward of the CG, I couldn't move the gas tank and of course there is no console to move. With the old 300 lb motor on the transom, I could easily plane at 12 mph. Initial trials with a new 429 lb motor set back 30" on a bracket, my min planing speed was up around 22-23 mph, which is absolutely unacceptable! After adding a stern lifting 4B prop and a Doelfin, I can again plane at 12 mph, but I'm sure those 2 items COST me more WOT speed than I gained with the bracket! A good friend of mine with the same boat just repowered with the same motor but no bracket, and he's at least 5-6 mph faster @ WOT! I don't really mind because I never run WOT, the boat rides great, still averages over 4.0 mpg, and I like the extra room and big swim platform. But if you're thinking of adding a bracket just for another 2-3 mph top speed, just recognize that there is a risk of losing more than you gain if you screw up the boat's balance! And a jack plate can still cause the problematic CG shift, but without providing the benefits of a swim platform and a big flotation tank to maintain static trim for self bailing at the dock!

Bottom line is that adding a bracket on a 20 is not as simple as it looks and requires some serious thought and modifications to do it right, which is why we made my Pros & Cons thread a sticky in the Repairs/Mods section!

Mr Marshtackie, Sir.... I like the way your thinkin and I appreciate the recommendations.

E-tec 90 on Overnighter
 

You originally asked about an E-tec 90, I think. They only come in 2 to 1 gears and turn about a 13 -1/2" wheel. You could use one on that boat with maybe a 13" pitch wheel and get in the high 20's WOT. I think you'd make about 22 MPH cruising at 4,000 and it would leave the same wake as a duck.

The Marshtackie is a Seacraft "Panga", which are even rarer than the Overnighters. I've run a 90 E-tec since 2006 on it and although the boat is about as utilitarian as a Jon Boat, I load it up with a 1500 pounds of dive gear and 3 or 4 old fat divers and run 25 miles out in the Gulf with it on a regular basis. Loaded she makes about 20 - 22 MPH at 3600 rpms because the little triple has lots of mid-range torque and pulls like a John Deere. WOT (5600) loaded it will make 32 mph. The last 56 mile day trip I made took 16 gallons to top off.

Lots of good opinions on this site. This is just one.

Etec on Overnighter
 

My appologies didn't intend to hijack the op's questions.

But Terry do you think that 115 would be the best for this boat? I've been trying to be conscious of the balancing issues with the bracket. I'm no speed daemon, and would prefer the hull perform as close as possible to design.

Thanks for your opinion.
John P.

Pardon the interruption, Mr T., but I think the modern 25" e-tec 90 uses a 2.25 gear ratio.

Beastly, is your bracket set for a 20" or 25" shaft.

Etec 115 or initial etec 130 would be great, and I'd venture you might be closer to touching 40mph. But the 90 is about 2 grand less and 60 lbs lighter which may be significant when pushed 2 feet back. And like the 3 Lions man said ,the mid range torque is great for common cruising speeds. I still see the overnighter getting low 30s. The 20' SC cuddies are far more nimble than they look.

I have an '83 I-6 115 that takes my Seafari to 36 mph and am amazed what the the etec 90 does with 3 cylinders. I'd swap in a heartbeat if the cash were available. for me the mid range is most valuable because out west I'm airborne if I'm running 25mph in the swells.

I'd talk to Bushwacker a little about your weight re-distribution should you opt for the 115.

Gillie, thank you for the feedback. My bracket is set for a 25". I'll check out the specs on both motors but this narrows the choices down considerably. I prefer the economy of a smaller engine. For me the hard part is striking the right balance for this hull. Seems like today's mind set is to throw more horse power at it and be done. I don't necessarily agree with that notion.

Appreciate your guidance. Denny has already pointed me in the right direction on a few items.

Gillie, You are right. I stand corrected. I did find out they don't have them in Counter-rotating or I would have put a pair of 'em on that ol' Bert. Evinrude makes the 115's that turn both ways.

Beastly, see what Denny thinks (Bushwacker). He is running a 20' Safari with an E-tec 150 on Hermco bracket, but decades ago when Megladons roamed the high seas he was running an Evinrude 115 cross-flow all over the Bahamas with a splash-well. When everybody was afraid to take their boats off the trailers at Long Point in May, Bushwacker ran his Safari 90 miles up the coast, waded ashore and asked "When's the party getting started?" I'm glad he's calmed down some this decade - but he's still sport'in along like a wild man!

IMHO I still think a 115 is needed on 20, not so much for Top end but middle range especially if running in swells. An Etec 90 is prolly similar to a Merc 115 tower of power and that worked fine my 18

ps - I think the Etec's are by far the best outboards being built today if you can afford one. 2.5 Merc 150/175's if on a budget aren't too bad as there are tons of used parts out there if you know where to look, if not Merc will rape you but the Japs are worse about that.

I'm not a speed demon, I just want the most fuel efficient setup possible and a well balanced boat and the suzuki/etec 90hp seem to be the two best motors for that purpose.

90 E-tec on 20' Seacraft
 

3500 rpm's with 4 divers, 7 tanks fish and food coolers and 4 sets of dive gear-
18.9 knots / 22 MPH / 5 GPH

Nice PLB. I can do better MPG with two guys in a 20 with a 4 stroke 100 by a bit- 5nmpg, but never tried it with 4 guys and all that gear. That looks pretty good.

I *DO* like the seeming corrosion resistance of this particular Yamaha. I guess the F225 is not so good?

Check out the new 115hp Mercury. It can swing a 16pitch prop with the larger gearcase and weighs 359lbs.

That is certainly worthy of consideration, especially with the weight of the 115 etec going up. That is nearly 50 lbs lighter than the zuke. Best weight option in a 4-s now. Thanks for the heads-up captbone. looks nice too...

Merc 115
 

Got to looking at the merc 115 on the inter web. They offer it with a "command thrust" option which is a beefier LU. May have to take a closer look. Any experience out there with this engine? It's new but based on verado technology.

A buddy of mine is a mercury dealer. I'm gonna have him give me a quote for the new mercury. I've already had a quote for a suzuki 90 and a tohatsu 115tldi. I'll be getting an etec 90, 90HO and 115 quote in the near future and will post comparison $

Merc 4S 25" 115 hp Command Thrust is $8,650 from Ed's Superstore, plus freight, controls, prop. Add this in and you're at about $9,800.

Make sure you have a genuine Mercury service center do the install & rigging, or the warranty is hard to get honored. I suggest making a deal with your local dealer before buying from Ed's. You might get the motor installed for less than $10K AND build a good relationship with your local dealer.

Ed's will do the install and rigging as well if you haul your boat to them. However, they charged a friend of mine an additional $250 over their quote to de-rig and remove his old motor, so if you go that route, bring the boat ready for the install.

Thanks Fr. Frank. Appreciate the info as a comparison to a local dealer.

The Nissan 140 2 stroke motor on my 20 seafari needs to be fixed or replaced. Lost all compression on one cylinder. Anyone running a 90 hp on a Seafari, if so, how is the performance, planing time, cruise, top end? What about fuel use numbers? I am considering a Tohatsu 90 or 115 TLDI motor but will consider others. This thread has been useful. The comments on the Etec and Suzuki 90s have been helpful but have been run on hulls other than a seafari. I am concerned about the weight. Father Frank's experince seems to suggest that a 90 on a seafari might work. Thanks for your ideas.

I've got Franks old boat. The 90 works really well. We go out regularly loaded heavy in bumpy seas. I don't have a flow scan but would say we get around 3 mpg, with a 17p black max prop. The motor needs to be raised a couple inches and will do quite a bit better then. I would say if the 115 is the same weight and close to the same HP, get it. Otherwise the 90 will be just fine and probably burn less fuel.

http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...50&postcount=9

A 90 should be fine. I have that Yamadog 100 (90) hp 4 stroke. It is fine. I think the corrosion resistance of something better than a Nissan/Tohatsu or a Suzuki would be preferable to me.

5MPG. Because of that, I run a 20 gallon tank, although 30 might be nicer.

Don't dismiss Tohatsu so quickly. The regular 2-stroke is a very popular motor in the Caribbean for commercial uses, and rated as very reliable, with a better reputation even than Honda amongst fishermen. (Of course, the larger Tohatsu 4-strokes are just re-branded Honda motors)

The standard Tohatsu 2-stroke 140 hp runs on pre-mixed fuel, makes an honest 140 hp at the prop, the 25" shaft model weighs only 367 lbs, and costs only $9200 USD in Nassau, Bahamas. You cannot buy this motor in the USA, but you can in Bermuda as well.

Their weak spots have been their tiller arm, which is cast steel, their trim system, which is S-L-O-W but robust, and their under-cowling noise reduction.

[QUOTE=Fr. Frank;231163]Don't dismiss Tohatsu so quickly. The regular 2-stroke is a very popular motor in the Caribbean for commercial uses, and rated as very reliable, with a better reputation even than Honda amongst fishermen.

X2. I have a Tohatsu 90A on my 18 SC and I love this motor! Tohatsus are like old school commercial 2 strokes. Simple and bullet proof. I took the oil injection off of mine but I've heard that they are one of the best out there. I'd buy another in a heart beat.