Re-powering 1972 SeaCraft 23'...F300?
 

I'd like to get some opinions, right now I have a 1972 SeaCraft 23' with a Armstrong bracket-30 inch setback running a 2001 Yamaha Salt Water Series 250 h.p.
I'm looking into re-powering with a Yamaha F300 or an E-tec 300. I haven't looked into any other possibilities because I thought the above two would be the best options. I am open to hearing any suggestions. And if anyone has a F300 or E-tec 300 please let me know what kind of performance you're getting and whether or not you're happy with the engine overall. Thank You.

250 Salt Water Series
 

You might be "mess'in with success" swap'in that motor out until you put a rod through the block - which could be a long time. For $16,000 you can find one that's quieter and gets another 1/2 mile to the gallon but you have to get most of them wrenched on every 100 hours (once a year) at the rate of $5-600.00 (*) and your going to put some more weight on the transom. The V-6 two stroke Yamahas are pretty bullet-proof. You hear about a stator or a module going out once in a while but mainly they just "keep on truck'in". You have the dang Toyota Camary of outboard motors, be careful 'Jones'in for a Lamborghini that you get to maintain.

(*) A similar scheduled maintenance program is usually required during the Engine Manufacturer's Warranty Period. The various outboard manufacturers have different required service intervals which must be met and the work preformed by a factory authorized dealer for that engine manufacturer, if you expect to have recourse in the event of a Mechanical failure. Many purchasers of Outboard motors do not consider or calculate the cost of required service intervals into the total cost of operation. If you don't care about the Manufacturer's warranty or are beyond the warranty period than the service interval and person whom preforms the service work is strictly up to the boat owner. OR if you live up in the woods and you're kinda' big and grouchy and nobody around the area wants to work on your motor, then you'll just have to service it yourself - and you better have one of them chain drive Zukes.

Terry is right on with keeping the one you have unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket that OX 66 will run like the energizer bunny. I even know a guy that ran his out of oil, locked it up, and then got home and freed it with a breaker bar. Still running from last I hear.

If you do come over to the dark side and go with the 4 stoke, don't listen to the every 100 hour nonsense. The motors are no different than the car in your driveway.... Change the oil every 100 hours and forget them. I have one with 10 years of hard azz, offshore running and am approaching 1800 hours. No valve adjustments, fuel injector cleaning, or any other "recommended" BS. The BRP gang would like you to think different but they're just jealous cause they can't run the cheap gas. :D

Terry and Ken are right. That's the same reason I'm still running my 2003 EFI Merc. It's been very dependable and for the small amount of time I use the boat it makes no $$$$ sense to hang a new $20,000 engine on the back. Simple math, $20k divided by $5 gal for gas = 4000 gal. You can go a long way on 4000 gallons or until your engine dies. However if you use the boat A LOT and want to improve your fuel efficiency, you may want to trade while your trade value is still good.

Same here...2000 250 OX66, unknown hours. I'll keep going until it dies. Sent the injectors out this year for cleaning/flushing/calibrating. Made a world of difference for the ~ $200 cost.

I'm thrilled with my 300hp Etec. I'm assuming you are asking about replacing the Yamaha because you are having trouble with it. If not, I would agree with the other posts. Don't replace a working motor. That said, if you're looking for a replacement the 300hp Etec has been great to me. I can hit 50 mph in my Tsunami and used to surpass it before adding my hardtop. I cruise around 27 mph and get between 2 and 2.5 mpg according to the Garmin. I would expect to do much better with a CC. I've got a lot of weight in the Tsunami with two helm seat boxes and a deep full beam storage bench across the transom. The motor is also on a Hermco bracket.

There would be an even better reduction of weight with the Etec as well. And if your heart is set on twins, I would go with the Etecs considering the weight penalty of twin Zukes.

I definitely appreciate everyones input and i'm taking all the suggestions into consideration.
Here's the scoop on my rig: I bought the boat with the 2001 ox66 about 9 months ago (December 2013) I have been trying to work all the bugs out ever since, therefore I still haven't been able to actually enjoy the boat and go the distances that I need to go for fishing. The engine only has 420 hours on it but probably wasn't maintained properly prior to my purchase. I've already put over $1,000 into parts on my engine and it still isn't as reliable as it needs to be, I later discovered that the previous owner put an after-market lower unit on it (which I personally dislike). Currently, i'm experiencing fuel problems, i've changed every filter on the engine and in the boat, checked all the hoses and pumps and i'm still having problems. The motor dies at WOT and then starts up again and cruises without any problems. The only reason i'm seriously considering re-powering is to avoid putting more money into this engine.
I hadn't really thought about twins, I wasn't sure if the boat can take it without too much stern-sqaut.
I want to make the right choice. Any honest input is appreciated. Thanks again.

I see you're in Miami which should make it easier to find a good deal on an engine. There are many, many dealers up and down the coast competing for your business. Check out eBay for dealers who have "demo" motors for sale, find the one with the best "out the door" price which includes rigging, etc. and the best factory warranty, not some third party insurance company for the last half of the warranty period. Heck my brother towed his boat across the state to get his engines from a dealer in Stuart because due to the stiff competition over there they had the best price. Good luck.

Although some of the supercharged Verado's require higher octane fuel, the FACTORY RECOMMENDED fuel for all E-TEC's, except for the Military versions designed to run on JP-5, is 87 octane! And all the big block motors have knock sensors that will put engine into 1200 rpm limp home mode if you DO happen to get a load of bad gas, such as phase separated E-10 that's lost octane because water absorbed all the ethanol!

I concur with Terry and the others regarding repowering, as I went through the same thought process when I repowered in 2006. Although my overall average gas mileage went from 2.8 to 4.4 mpg by upgrading from 1975 technology, I could still buy many years worth of gas for the $12K or so it cost me to repower! The only way to really justify it is the clean quiet reliable operation of the new motor! And I have to admit that the dozen or so nice trips I've made with the new motor probably would not have happened either!

Thank you for the suggestions everyone!

I have a question for those of you who have a bracket: What size shaft is your outboard 25 or 30?

For some reason the previous owner set the boat up with a 30 inch shaft outboard on a hydraulic jack plate, on the Armstrong bracket with 30 inch setback.

It just doesn't seem right to me.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

I think the previous owner could have added more crap to the rear of the boat if he really wanted. :rolleyes: I've seen four or five SeaCrafts that were changed from twins to a single 30" shaft engine, including my brother from twin 140 loopers to a single 250 Merc and in every case the owner was very, very happy with the performance. Some were hung on the original transom built up to 30" and Moose's case with the manual jack plate. For a diver or someone who needs to use a ladder to climb in and out of the boat that's a real nice set up!

SeaCraft1972,
Don't be in "fuel tank denial". Beg borrow or steal a 6 or 12 gallon clean plastic gas tank, put fresh fuel in it and hook it to your OX-66 with a new fuel line a bulb. Run the engine and see if things straighten out. At least you will have isolated the problem of being with the engine or the fuel tank, lines, filter housing, etc. IIf you put a new engine on the boat you'll probably want to put a new tank in it anyway so you don't run a big slug of water through it. Water in the fuel is not covered by any engine warranties that I'm aware of.

Re: bracket.
Not a SeaCraft, but older style 25' contender; originally had twin 25" Yamaha Hpdis and repowered with a single 30" Yamaha four stroke.
Left Stainless Marine bracket at original height.
Even with the motor mounted at highest position, the anticavitation plate is still below the water line. Thinking of putting a jackplate on.

My buddy has identical boat, motor, and bracket, except it's 25" and his is too short, even set at the lowest position.

You may need to adjust the bracket height if you go with a 30" motor.

I will definitely test the boat with an auxiliary tank. Thank you for the suggestion Terry.

Question for Dave and Don and anyone else with experience setting the height of an outboard: Is there any way to determine what length shaft my boat/bracket setup should have?

If I get a new motor i'd prefer not to set it up with a jack plate.

See if this helps.

http://www.dadmarine.com/doc.html

I fixed by fuel problem. Turned out that 1 of the new low pressure pumps had a suction leak, it was sucking air into the system and losing the prime. The parts dealer exchanged it, what a headache.
The engine is running great now but i'm still serious about upgrading to a new engine. I now added Suzuki to my possible list. It's a very tough decision. The E-tec, Suzuki and Yamaha are all great engines (300hp) I can't find enough negatives about any of them to justify ruling them out.

Any suggestions or personal experiences with any of these motors will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Suzuki 300
 

I repowered my 23 Center Console with a DF 300 Suzuki, 30 inch shaft with fly by wire technology. Initially 4 years ago I purchased a leftover model and enjoyed the performance and economy as well. It replaced a pair of 225 Johnsons that were put on the boat when new in 1986. The motor is quiet and weighs in at 600 pounds. The boat has no rear squat now and it is a pleasure to drive, the peace and quiet compared to the ole Johnsons is unbelievable. It will run in the low 50's but have a great 3 mpg cruise at 30 mph.
Regarding keeping a good running motor my only opinion is that if it is a low hour motor you can probably sell it and get a good dollar for it now. In a few years there will be repair bills and have a much less depreciated value. My Johnsons were low hour motors and sold literally in one week. If you can sell now and take that money and put it into a new motor, (mine came with a 6 year warranty) you will definitely enjoy the new experience. Sell the old motor on the boat as it is easier to demo and let the buyer pay to derig.
Just another opinion

I agree with terry , I have seen the pickup tubes with small screens in them get fouled up with stuff. Try installing a vacuum gauge as well in the fuel line and see what vac it is pulling. Not sure of the specs.on a 250 . I would guess no more then 4

Seacraft1972, Just r-e-l-a-x. You'll have about a decade to figure out which one you want before you wear that OX-66 out.

300 yamaha - 23 Sceptre
 

I enclosed the transom and am running the same 30" Armstrong bracket with a 300 Yamaha 4 stroke. The boat runs 50 WOT and loaded burns 2.8 - 2.9 MPG. I ran it from Ft. Pierce to Walkers Cay / Rosie's Place in grand Bahamas this past weekend and had a glass crossing on the way over. I burned 42 gallons in 118 statute miles getting there = 2.81 MPG. On the way home the bank was windy and 2 - 4 where I could only run 20 knots. When I hit the stream it flattened out and ran 38 knots to make up for lost time and burned 50 gallons at the same distance = 2.36 MPG. Overall the boat is unreal! runs perfect and is very well balanced. The scuppers stay dry even with three guys standing on the bracket.

I have no idea about the etec. I am just happy that I do not have to buy the excessive oil at $40 a gallon.

Very nice numbers!!! 2.81 mpg is only double what I get, which if you do some Jethro inspired math that's half as much $$$$ as I would "burn"!!!

Repower
 

Right! You don't have to buy the $40 a gal. oil with the E-tec, but you give the same $$ and more to the dealer when you get the oil changed and after you have been burning dirty oil for 75% of the oil cycle. The E-Tec is always burning 100% virgin pure clean oil in the combustion cycle...and I like that!

Ya know I've never thought about it in those terms. I've got a Yamaha four stroke and a Merc two stroke and even though I use Amsoil 100% synthetic in both I just never thought about the 75% of the engine oil life before in a 4S. Good point! FWIW.....I get my Amsoil HP 100% synthetic two stroke for $32 a gal delivered to my door. It can be used in the eTec at the same computer setting as the Evinrude 100XD.

I don't know about the e-tec, but in normal 2 strokes the oil goes where the fuel is. Which breezes by some bearings.

In 4 strokes that dirty old oil goes to bearings and bearing surfaces like cam lobes, piston skirts, wrist pins, etc.

If it was a terrible idea, then 4 strokes wouldn't last hundreds of thousands or even a million miles.

The roots "supercharged" two strokes last a while, too. But those are also a different beast. YMMV. Literally.

So it might not be THAT cut and dried.

Unlike normal 2 strokes, the E-TEC's inject oil directly into the main bearings, crankcase and cylinder liners. Accumulated oil is recirculated from various locations in the powerhead via internal passages and external hoses, fittings and check valves.

The local dealer sells XD-100 full synthetic oil in bulk (bring your own jug) for $35/gal. On average I seem to use about 1 gal of oil for every 100 gallons of gas, which works out to about one gallon of oil for every 400-450 miles run, so the cost of oil doesn't seem to be much more than what I'd spend on changing the oil and filter every 6 months on a 4 stroke.

My experience has been the same as Bushwacker's.

If you're going to have the dealer perform your service while under warranty, the cost to change the oil on a four stroke surpasses the cost to burn your oil in a two stroke, at least in my area.

I don't think there's a bad motor choice out there these days. I would go with your favorite local dealer. A good experience with the dealer is worth a lot of money in my opinion.

"A good experience with the dealer is worth a lot of money in my opinion"

How true!!

Just read this thread. If you had the low pressure pumps replaced and had one fail already make sure they aren't Mallory brand pumps. I made the mistake of buying a set and having them fail. Total POS Chinese crap that will fail. Save yourself a tow if that's what you've got and get some genuine Yamaha ones. By the way, they still have the Yamaha logo cast into the top plate so ask your vendor.

If I were to compare the weight of your 23 ft Secptre to a 1973 23" Center Console that I have recently cdone a complete restoration on using Divinacel and cloeed in the transom. I imagine the center console would be 300-500 lbs lighter. I am also going to use a 300 Yama and trying to guess the speed and fuel. Might be similar to yours accept for any weight difference.
What do you think.

Yamaha..,earlier 2 stroke EFI OX66, or newer 4 stroke.if it cost you alittle more for service, its worth it... imho

I've owned both Yamaha and Suzuki 4 strokes and am much happier with the Zuke. While I have never required warranty work on either, Yamaha is stringent about dealer done scheduled maintainance and will deny warranty unless you drop bags of cash at the dealer to preforn unnessasary proceedures. The Zuke dealer I use could care less. He recommended Rotella dino 15-40 every hundred hours and I am still going strong with a 2004 motor with 1900 hours. Spark plugs and anodes are all I have every changed beside the engine and foot oil and a yearly impeller change I do myself. If you are handy enough to service your car the new 4 strokes are virtually the same.

Just ran across this on Hull Truth for anyone interested in a slightly used F300 4.2. No affiliation, just thought I'd pass it on. I have about the same $ in my complete package and the motor had 800 hrs on it when I bought it. This is a really good asking price.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/parts-fo...nterested.html