My 1975 SeaCraft 25' Seafari rebuild thread
 

Well, after reading all the positive attributes about the 25's I decided I would like to add one to my collection. I was wanting something I could take the family out on and do some overnighting and camping on and she as plenty of room for it. Also with the 25.5 degree deadrise she will not be a slough in the ruff water either. I plan on doing some offshore fishing and trolling in her when not being used for family time. It has been said that the 25' hulls are a "drivers boat" so it sounds like she will be fun to captain once I get used to the way it handles. Thanks to a member on the CSC board for a great deal on the purchase of this project. She has now found her way back home to NC. Far as I know from the history of the boat, she was here in Morehead city, NC back some time ago then went to Alabama. She last ran and was use in Alabama then she was sold to an gentleman in Massachusetts as a project boat. She sat in MA for some time and then she was sold to me and came all the way back to Newbern, NC about an hour from where it sat at a decade ago. She is in fair shape over all but in need of a restore. The transom is rotten and the hull bottom has some minor blisters but nothing that cant be fixed. I will start by replacing the transom and cleaning up the bottom of the hull for paint. After a lot of research and deliberation I have decided to hang an outboard(s) on a bracket to the hull. I will try to move weight forward and get the balance back best I can but with this model liking weight forward so much I will most likely mount a ballast tank and add enough anchor chain in the front to get the ride to a quality level. Im not planning on doing a full restoration on it yet due to the family wants to camp out on it before this year is over and I also want to get started on the full restoration on the Race boat soon as well. I will get the Seafari useable then once the race boat is done next year I will do a full teardown on the 25'. Most likely I will get the transom done, fix the bottom blisters, barrier coat the hull, and then will spray a color on the bottom/sides of the hull. All of the insides of the hull, flooring boxes, cabin repairs plus the rest of the hull will have to wait for a full restore later after the family has some fun on it first! :)

A few pictures:

This is in MA while loading it for the trip home:

Attachment 7786

Sitting at a gas station on the trip home:

Attachment 7787

I got stated on the 25' by getting it off the trailer and on blocks in the yard. I got the transom skin cut off of the core in one full piece so that I can use it for a pattern once I get ready to cut out the new coring that will be going back in it. The wood was so rotted the inner skin came right off of the wood core and was easily removed once cut from around the rear of the hull. The ply wood is almost gone. There is a little left that is intact but not much. This will make it real easy to replace. I will finish removing all the old core then clean up the remaining wood from the outer skin.

Pictures of the transom before it was cut:

Attachment 7788

Picture looking down between the two pieces of ply wood:

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The transom with the inner skin removed:

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The inner skin out of the boat:

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And so it begins.... I am very excited for you and am looking forward to see it evolve.

You are a sick Redneck of the highest order. I think I saw a Furry Hat launch into orbit just North of home here. Yep, second stage premature ejection.

I think Mayor McCheese just melted.

Or maybe someone dropped a tab in my beer.

Well done Frizzz...

With a wicked hahhhd shot to the green monstah.

Slacker Air is almost alive...

Mmm,
Bugzzz

Good to see another Seafari 25 on the way to becoming operational!

This is a situation where using Coosa in the transom would make a lot of sense to help with the CG issue. If it was a single I/O, it might have made sense to keep it an I/O, but with twin I/O's, I can see why you'd want to go with a bracketed outboard! I'd try to minimize bracket setback however!

Hey FF,

Great to see another 25 being brought back to life!

I can attest to the fact that she is a great camping boat as that is what I primarily use our 25 for (although I haven't used her in about 4 years). Your family will love it!

If you're planning on a full camper top, I would suggest adding a screen on the rear curtain as well as a screen to the cabin hatch. This will allow a nice breeze through when anchored into the wind, while keeping those skeeters out at night. We used Velcro to attach the screen to the perimeter of the hatch. Cheap and works great.

Looking forward to performance with the bracket and outboard.

Good luck with the restore.
Brandon

Looooking good Frizz!! :)

Nice boat, Frizz. You are going to love it, fabulous camping boat. Two can sleep in the cabin and the deck accommodates one in the center or two in a barely queen size double side to side behind the galley. With outboards you might have room for more. Very comfortable with thermorest mattresses. I got back yesterday from a month aboard mine, slept on the deck and loved it.

Think hard about the outboard thing. The boat has a considerable roll that will be made worse by outboards.

When you get around to canvas, look at my initial thread. Lots of pics of my canvas. The way its designed, you can mix and match panels to produce different shade patterns. Very useful when its hot.

I'm starting to lose count. Isn't that 7 25s on CSC? We gotta have a regatta.

Outboard 25 Safari
 

Frizz, Go Cautiously. Conner's right. I had a good friend in Clearwater who pulled a couple of pushrod 6 cylinder Volvos out of a 25 Safari and put a bracket on it with two 200 Mercurys. The thing would go along and just roll over on one side because someone walked around, then trim, trim, trim, nothing - then it would roll over on the other side. Weird! It was very difficult to keep it "upright".
I think the 25's like "Iron in their belly". They'd be happier with a Cat 3208 amidships with a surface drive, I think. If you stay with the outboard plan, see if you can find some K-Planes. That might give you some stability, underway.

Conner, we need a more complete report on the Bahamas than where you slept, for Gosh sakes! I'm glad you were not with Lewis and Clark or you'd come back with a report that said "Lot's of dirt west of the Mississippi". WTH (heck)

Have patience, my son. It'll take a few days, I'm exhausted.

You better "walk it off" Brother. There's Marine A/C units "laid down" all up and down the West Coast of Florida and the First Mate's "make up" is running so bad it's got bilge pumps caked up. You better git right and git with the program or they're going to "Pink Slip" you dang L.A. azz, Bro'. I got people who know people and that's what I heard tell. Plus we got to save up enough for them pavers to park the "Blew By You" on.

I know it's probably some sort of mortal offence to ask - but has anyone ever converted a 25 Seafari into a 25 Savage with a big block under a step up console (to see over the bow, kinda like the Rybo runners) and a jackshaft to a high power drive like a Bravo 1XR? it would wreck sleeping on the deck but it seems awesome for Bahamas & Dry Tortugas trips. CG would be lower and more forward and with twin tanks you might help the roll. That being said, the only 25 I have ever actually touched is Blue Heron's and I was stunned by it - amazing boat.

Thanks for all the responses,

Far as the motor outboard/bracket idea, I have spent some time thinking that one threw. I really would like to keep it an I/O for the obvious reasons but cost, ease of use, space gain, and the fact that I just don't like an I/O keeps me thinking of trying the bracket. I do have a 400 four bolt main standard bore block sitting around but it would cost me 10k to build it the way I would want it plus that is my motor for my 69 short bed Chevy. I also have thought about an 383 stroker EFI mercruiser with an bravo 3 but then again im looking over 10k easily. If I could find a donor boat for 5k or so with a newer MPI 350 or something like that before the bracket gets built I may still go this direction. I am considering this as an option:http://eastnc.craigslist.org/bod/4556443191.html

Terry, - "They'd be happier with a Cat 3208 amidships with a surface drive"

I would love to do one with a set up like this and after seeing BigFluke's 25' in Hawaii with the surface drive it makes one cool looking set up that would work well but I don't even know what it would cost to do something this. Im sure it would be the cats Meow, but far out of budget.
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5323dd0c.jpg

seafari25 & cdavisdb

I have been checking out post on your rigs and like the idea of a nice top to keep the bugs and sun out. The full tops are defiantly cool for camping and I will be studying more on how I want to put something together for sun shade. I have some wide range of ideas, from copying your tops to full pilot house top that will mess my CG up. I would like to go with some type of hard top but know the weight will kill me.

Flexpat,- "I know it's probably some sort of mortal offence to ask - but has anyone ever converted a 25 Seafari into a 25 Savage"

I have sketched up a hard top/pilot house idea that will be cool but the purest up here will slap us silly for modifying this rare bird too much from original...
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7ce52369.jpg

Bushwacker,

I will be defiantly going with the shortest set back possible to help with the GC & weight issues. I would like to go with some 2.5 merc twins or a single v-rod but don't know how much setback I can cut out while still being able to tilt the motors out of the water while clearing the hood. I hate to change the looks of the curved transom but thought about doing a small cut out/ well to clear the power head when tilted forward to help keep the motors inward while still keeping the added room in the rear plus the wall to keep the water out. On the coring, Coosa is what I am wanting to use but I am having a hard time finding it at a fair price. Shipping is killing me on it and some suppliers need me to get like 6-8 sheets to get a good price on it or to order at all.

GFS, "You are a sick Redneck of the highest order"

You could call me that but my old lady has used a bit of choice wording towards me a little differently for picking up another project, She is actually supportive believe it or not. Im not sure why but she is.

I will be printing coupons for the showing of the nautical history of SeaCraft hulls as soon as I can manage to get the grass mowed from under all the examples and get the ropes up around them. If the museum doesn't work out I may start a rental facility...

To all the others: Sit back, strap in, hold on and let the journey begin!

kmoose has a nice rig on his Septre, very short setback. Works mighty well on that boat.

I'm pretty sure the very best setup for a 25 Seafari is a 383 stroker with a duoprop or bravo 3, unless you turned it into an openfish inboard or jackshaft.

I haven't ridden in another 25 and have but an hour on mine so far, but I really like the 350MPI and bravo 3.

I think a short 15" setback bracket with a slightly notched transom is the way to go. It preserves the curved transom (probably going 2/3 way through the cap would allow full tilt up). Fab a neat cutting board to fit in that spot for normal use. 15" would probably give you enough real world tilt to clear most obstacles or beaching.

Blackfin, I think you are correct. Both I/O to outboard conversions, I am familiar with were with 30" brackets. I was thinking the same thing - maybe a 30" shaft, big prop Zuke on a stubby Vertical Hydraulic Jack Plate with a high notch that would let you run the jack plate up and then tilt the motor might work. It would keep the weight forward. My friends both left the I/O motor boxes and filled the engine box up with fuel tanks or dive tanks. When they eased of the throttle too quickly the engines would partially submerge - not good!

Check with Conner or Dave but I think Carl Moesly's original 25' Safari design had a forward water ballast tank to make the boat ride right with a cast iron Mercruiser INSIDE the transom. When you start moving the CG (actually the Center of Buoyancy) away from the original water ballast tank location in the bow, things get funky quickly.

Go easy, I know enough to be dangerous and like any good Democrat I have no problem spending someone else's money on theoretical shit.

"and like any good Democrat I have no problem spending someone else's money on theoretical shit"

Just what I thought , you came in top of your Obammy civics class!! Kenya dig it? :)

Drunkin' Sailors
 

I ran into a drunken US Navy sailor in Barcelona and he was pissed that citizens compared his spending habits to Democrats. He said "Hell, eventually he runs out of money - they just keep printing their's!!"

Terry - Any idea on the size and location of the water ballast tank?

"Axe" Conner or Dave (Cattle Egret) they have PHD's in 25' Safari's.
Gillie, Skip or Island Trader Ter might know. They are real old and people seek them out to find the meaning of both Life and VDH. They ain't on top of some mountain in Tibet though, they's usually "sett'in on a Dock in the Bay", like Otis Reading.

You might be able to find something in Carls patent on it.
http://www.moeslyseacraft.com/uploads/1/1/0/5/11051379/lit-pat-ballast-3503358.pdf

Yea, I have read this multiple times and will install some ballast water tanks to the boat. I bought a triangular tank for the race boat and a few 12v solenoid valves to control the water flow in and out of the tank. I not sure if the tank I got now will work on the 25' seafari but will fit nicely in the 27.5' race hull. I may just fab up an aluminum tank for the 25' so I can utilize the space better. Im not sure if I will do one tank or two with the orifice between the two like drawn, One with pumps and valves would help with weight ballast but the idea of the two will help plane the boat better allowing the weight to gradually shift from the front tank to the rear and then empting out as speed builds. The idea of being able to add weight as you need it is nice but to get the water transfer right between the tanks and the outlet for the self stabilizing while bringing the boat on plane is ingenious! It would take some trail and error to get the flow rates right between the tanks and out the exit but if done correctly I believe it would really help the stabilization of the vessel. I will at minimum have ballast tank that I can pump water into and out of via pumps and solenoid valves for control but not sure if I have the room to implement the whole system as shown in the patent.

There is a huge amount of room under the deck, between the main stringers, from the forward tank bulkhead to the forward bulkhead, more than sufficient for any water tank you might design. I think it should work real well. Need to be real careful with reinforcement to handle the weight and slamming.

It's a beautiful mechanical design. Unfortunately It doesn't show anything about size, weight, or specifics regarding the 25.

If you compare the 71/72 25 seafari's to the 73/74/75 25's

There is a big difference in the cockpit/cabin stepdown. There is a LOT of empty space below the cabin floor on the 71/72 25 seafari's. I imagine this is where the tanks would have gone had the 25 been built by potter to moesly's specs.

It would of been sweet if it had the size of the orifice between the tanks and said the volume of the tanks. There are a lot of unknowns there still. That's why Im leaning towards a single tank just for weight ballast. Like Big said there is a lot less room under the floor in the later 25's than the first ones built. The good thing about the latter ones is that you can stand up in the cabin and have a ton of extra head room. Im not sure how much extra depth I have but it looks to be 8" or more over the others. There is still a lot of room in the storage compartment that a bladder tank could go but I am hoping to find room under the deck even if it is a shallow tank custom built to fit the contour of the hull. Welding aluminum is not a problem for me so I could build a odd shaped tank and add some foam coring under it for support and then glass it in solid so that it don't bounce around and support it well.

Getting geared up to get back rolling on the seafari. Went about 6 hours away to pick up power for the hull this weekend. Found an awesome deal on a second pair of 2.5 mercury 200 hp efi outboards. (Second to the pair recently picked up for the race hull) I know I know this boat would do better with a io but I'm going to give this pair of out boards a chance. They were in good shape, compression was 125 at the lowest on all 12 holes up to 129 psi as a high. Very good numbers. Came with all controls, cables, harnesses, full gauges that look new, props and every thing to rig and run. Hour meters were very low for the year. Best part was they were only 2k! Came with 17p counter rotation mirage props, what pitch do yall guys think the 25' will need. I have standard rotation 19p & 21' mirage wheels and wonder if I may need to get a counter to those 2) if the 17p's are to little pitch. Like to get the rpms at least to 6000.

Pics:
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...pse0fb76d5.jpg

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...psff0c1432.jpg

Check with Carla! She should have access to the design info! Skip said Carl had planned to use a bladder tank, which eliminates the need for a vent line! Otherwise, you would need a fairly large vent line to be able to quickly fill and drain the tank. I'd put it as far forward as possible up below the bunks to get the maximum leverage/trim change from it; I'd vote for largest size bladder that would fit, but you wouldn't necessarily have to fill it all the way. You might also want to mount a decent size fresh water tank up there too, since your CG will definitely be higher and further aft than what Connor and Dave are running. They could probably give you good advice on tank size!

Frizz, you have a very interesting problem; wish I had the technical skills to answer, but I think Blue Heron does.

You are going to like 400 hp. Mine is 300 and I'd like a bit more.

CG and roll is the big issues. If you know the weight of the new engines(and bracket?) and how far back from the transom they will be, Dave can calculate the for and aft CG effects. Putting in a water ballast should be able to remedy any issues fore and aft and he should be able to calculate the ballast needed, as well. Vertical CG might be tougher, especially since the engine weight will be both higher and farther outboard than an I/0. Still, having a bunch of water weight low in the bow will help the vertical CG, damping down the roll. How all that will play out in the real world might be pretty different from what the calculations say, just have to try it.

The worst possible result would be for the boat to develop a snap roll. Mine rolls, (how could it be otherwise?), but it doesn't snap. A friend of mine owned one years ago with twin outboards, and a hard top and a tower (I kid you not). It had a viscous snap on top of a extremely wide roll, even after they took the tower off. His wife, who was a pretty good boater, refused to set foot on the boat after her first experience.

Got going on the transom core. I got 2- 3/4" sheets of Douglas fir marine grade ab ply from home depo for $80 each. Wanted to use Coosa to save weight but man that stuff is high. To get it I had to buy a minimum of like 10 sheets to get a good price or pay higher price and high shipping on just the 2 sheets. I decided in interest of time (wanting to work over the holidays while I.had off) to go with wood. To me wood is the best transom material anyhow but just hate to make the rear any heavier than needed. Deep vee ride better with more weight just got to get enough forward to get the balance right. I used the skin from the inside of the hull to get a pattern marked on the ply. Once I got that marked I took a pice of scrap and traced the hull bottom of the vdr and marked it on the ply for an exact tight fit. Got both pieces tried out, then scuffed the inside face of them with 80 grit to get the smoothness off the ply and to make it absorb the resin better. I used thinned infusion vinyl ester and applied a good hot coat of resin to the wood face so it could absorb in. Styriene will thin resin better than acidtone and works best. Infusion resin is thin to start with but wood absorb resin better when really dry and when the resin is super thin. I cut two layers of 1708 and two 1700 cloth for the inner core between the two plys. The 1708 will get applied to the wood csm side mating to the ply. That will hold more resin for the wood to absorb and fill any flaws in the wood better. I dug threw the stack so i got two nice sheets so it was flaw free mainly as ab grade is anyhow. I almost wished I got the Douglas fir exterior ac grade ply at $40 a sheet (half the cost). I told myself the ab marine would be better even tho they are basically the same thing. Back to lay up schedule, 1708 to the wood csm side touching the face then a layer of 1700 biaxel second 1700 biaxel then 1708 facing opposite the first so csm is up to lay the outer ply sheet on that way the csm touched the face of that second sheet. I applied each layer one at the time rolling each out well to get any air out between layers. Applied the top sheet down after it soaked up plenty of thinned resin. I did this on a 38-40 degree night with my shop cold. This gave me plenty of working time to lay everything up without the resin kicking off. It took 3-4 hours to do everything and once I had it clamped together and weight on top of it I shut the doors, fired up the heat and set it to 90 degrees. Once the heat climbed the resin started to kick. Baked it all night for 10 hours and removed the clamps and then trimmed the edges. This gave me a 3/16 or better lament between my plys. Supper strong and flat. Now I. Will hot coat the sides edges of the plys and outside that will face the rear of the boats original transom skin. It will get just one layer of 1708 due to the outer boat skin is already 3/8" thick. Once I get it hot coated I will lay csm strips 2) 1.5" & 1) 4 " strips around the edges just to seal them against water asorbshion then drop the 1708 layer on the back of the ply face. Once that sets flip it and lay an layer of 1708 on the other side. This will seal the core 100% and as long as no screws go in it there shouldn't never get water in it to rot it out. Once cured it will get scuffed with 80 grit and bonded in the hull to the rear skin with thicken epoxy and several layers added to the front tabbing it in to the hull sides.



Attachment 9174

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nice to what you are doing good luck and happy new year george

George, ready to do some overnight camping with the family this spring in the 25', gotta get rolling to make that happen

Few more pics:
Attachment 9177

Attachment 9178

Attachment 9179

Looking good! How thick are you going to make the inner laminate skin?
Dave

Thanks, The original inner skin looks like it only had one layer of a thicker woven roven with csm under that against the wood. It was barely an eighth inch thick if that thick, probably less. I was surprised just how thin it was for the large transoms is in theses 25's. The outer hull skin is a very thick 3/8" plus but that was the only thick part. The two wood layers were tacked together with nails every 6" or so with no glass between them at all. I will be going back a lot thicker. I know the outboard bracket will need more support than the outdrives did. I may build up about a 1/4" thick of glass on the inside once it is in place. I will start out with a layer of 1708 with 4" ears to lap onto the hull sides and bottom for tabbing. Then two layers of 1700 for thickness on just the core then a second 1708 with 6" ears for tabs then 2 more 1700 layers then a final 1708 with 8" ears for tabbing. That should give me the thickness I need and three over lapping tabs to the hull. I will also come back and add some additional tabbing strips around the edges for additional support. I will be pulling some nice flits in the corners as well to help the tabbing radius as it rolls off of the core. All said and done it will be a lot more than the thin original factory inside layer plus have the 1/8"- 3/16" of glass between the plys as well. I may be over doing it a bit but that is one large 7'x4' span of transom especially with the bracket and outboards hanging on it. I will also add some knees to the transom down to the inner stringers plus when I build the bracket I will try to align the stringers in it to match up with the ones in the hull to the knees so that it all supports off one another.

2k for the pair!!!! wow that is an amazing deal. I'll be watching closely to see how you like the boat with outboards. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, I couldn't believe the price either. He wanted $2200 but got him down to 2k. I expected to find some old motors with burnt piston's but when I did compression checks the lowest hole was 125 and the highest was 129 and that was cold with the throttle closed. I done a leak down as well and they checked out really well. They also still have the serial Id numbers on the freeze plugs so they are original power heads not rebuilds. The only have around 350 hrs on them according to the gauges that came with them. I found a pair of carb 2.5s last week here locally for 3k. If they were EFI like these I would of got that pair too. Still might end up with them due to the guy may trade them for my 23' Proline and trailer. There as been some deals around on motors lately. Keep me in mind if you come across and Hipo 2.5 stuff. Still like to find some 7 petal fronts and some promax blocks if possible. Not for the 25' but for the race boat. The motors on the 25'will remain stock for now.

A bracket will evenly distribute motor loads across the entire transom, so you'll actually have lower concentrated loads and stresses on your rig than you'd have on a conventional outboard or outdrive transom mount!

I think the knees and 1/4" inside thickness are overkill, but I agree that lapping the cloth around into the hull bottom and sides is a good idea. That glass between the plies may add a bit of compressive strength but it adds NO bending strength to the transom because it's at the neutral axis. (When you bend an I-beam, the compressive and tensile stresses are directly proportional to the distance from the neutral axis, which is at the center of a symmetrical part, so there is NO bending stress at the neutral axis. A cored panel is similar to an I-beam, so the max bending stresses are at the outer surface. This is why cored panels can be so stiff and strong with relatively weak and lightweight core materials like foam. As long as you use epoxy or vinylester resin for good bond strength, that transom will be stiff as a brick!

FYI, Don Herman uses lots of Coosa in his brackets, so if you want some for a future project, it might be worth sending him a PM. He might be able to sell you just one piece for less than the retail you'd probably pay at at most places.

You are exactly right! :D

I defiantly tend to over build, I will probably leave out some of the 1700 layers for building thickness and keep it around 3/16". I planned on using some 4" aluminum flat bar on the back side of the bracket mounts to help spread load so there is really no need for any thicker. I also plan on using some foam in the bracket. I have some core cell left from the last one I done. It is not enough so I will be sending that PM. Thanks for the help guys!!!