Keep it simple. Rebuilding a 20 into a no frills fishing/work boat.
 

Hey all. I figured it was time to start my own build thread. I am not new to boats or fiberglass work, but I am new to SeaCrafts, so I will ask a lot of questions. I plan to copy a lot of the work done by some of the CSC masters. I got this boat off the CSC classifieds a year or so ago and I'm finally getting around to working on it. It's primary use will be transportation to our island house in Narragansett bay in Rhode Island with a focus on fishing the bay area there.

Currently I have the boat off the trailer and on "stands" so I can work. The transom restore is complete and I plan to bracket this 20" Super Fisherman. I plan to keep it simple. No livewells or even fishboxes (but maybe) because I fish mostly lures and I dont eat fish so I catch and release. This boat will be the lifeline of the island house as there is no ferry or any other way to access this house. It needs to be able to carry a decent amount of cargo and dogs to our vacation getaway.

I've attached a few pics of the boat. Some of you may remember it from the classifieds. We worked out a good trade that was good for both of us. Looking forward to the feedback because without this board I would not have had the ambition to build this boat. Thanks everyone!!!!!

Progress is slow because I only have one day a week to work on it, but I got the whole interior sandblasted and cleaned. Then I installed 2 of the 4 stringer risers I made. The risers are 3 layers of 3/4" marine ply glued up with polyurethane glue. They are attached with a mix of resin, milled fibers and cabosil. Worked out great. The outer port side stringer is not perfectly plumb (installed that way) so I think ill cut my riser at a slight angle so they'll all be flat. Plus I want a slight crown to the deck for drainage.

Hey Basketcase, I'll guess you've already done this but if not, before you start crawling around under it I hope you'll add some blocks or something else in case the jack blows a gasket.

New Hampster Cracker
 

Looks like you'er set for an Ebola outbreak in Manchester with that suit. We can't wear them in Florida during the summer season or there is just a little wet spot in one of the footies of where we were - and they just roll it up and bury you in Tyveck.
We usually just grind in our Daisy Dukes and then run off the end of the dock every 20 minutes to jettison the fibers. Works pretty good until the Coast Guard follows what appears to be a White Tide back to your house and says "Excuse me Captain, but are you working on a new project?"
We have to save all our grinding for the three weeks of Winter we have in January if we want to employ the proper protection as you have. The rest of the time, we just - you know - FISH! However we can only keep a certian species, of a certian lenght, during very specific dates which never overlap, or we are in big trouble. We usually take our attorney's fishing with us to keep everything straightened out with the FEDs, except if we'er shark fishing - Professional Courtesy!

Up here we wait for the 3 weeks of summer. That's how we dress for it because we are so pale from the lack of sun.

And we mix our polyester 50:50 with MEKP just so it will kick.

Fishstrecher nailed it. That's how we roll here in the shire. But yes, its on blocks now. The picture was taken as we were removing the trailer. It's now safely sitting on bLocks and stands so we Don't die while working on it. Once the floor is in I'll probably put it back on the trailer. For now I wanted to relax the hull to it's natural state so it's Straight when I attach the structure to it.

That's funny

Not a ton of progress to report. Got 2 of the stringers foamed and glassed. Not much time to work. I did however find a console. Im sure some of you may recognize what its from and some of the purists may cringe but its in good shape and came with some stuff on it. The price was right and even if I don't use it I'm sure I can just resell it.

I've been trying to remember where I've seen a console like that, and cant put my finger on it!
Its mako-ing me crazy!

:D

(sorry...)

I see what you did there ;)

Slow and steady wins the race but there is progress! I only have a few hours a week to work on it with work and school but I finally have all 4 stringers done. to fill the gaps between the extensions and existing stringers and the hull I build some dams with plywood and poured in some foam. Once it was cured I shaped it by hand until it was what I needed. Then I glassed over it and the tops of my stringer extensions and there it is!

I did have an issue with some of the glass I was using. I thought it was me but I blame the glass. The 6 and 12 inch width 1708 I got from US composites has some spots that NEVER turn clear. They stay white no matter what. I thought I wasnt getting a good enough wet out but that is impossible. The larger roll of 1708 that I used for other parts does not do this and gives me a perfect looking lamination. Visual inspection shows the two cloths are a bit different. It seems like the stitching on the small widths is what is not "wetting" properly. I still say its a good lamination but it just doesnt look as nice as the regular cloth. Has anyone experienced this?

I also got the scupper holes filled in. I have 5 layers inside and 5 outside in the form of progressively larger circles. This was the good cloth and wet out perfectly. Thanks to fishstretcher for the extra gallon of vinyl. I would have been slightly short if you didnt have that!

next on the list is the center stringer. One of the first things I did to this boat was run a piece of 6" 1708 down the middle after getting out the old center stringer. This is a very poor lamination, it was hot out and the resin kicked fast. Plus it was polyester. I think I'm going to grind out the piece I put in and re-do it. The reason for it was because there was a leak somewhere in the center. There is an old repair to deal with that was poorly done from underneath. I knew it was leaking because water was dripping out when the hull had some rainwater in it when I first got it. I think I'll put in an 8" piece of the 2408 I have down after I grind out that polyester crap. Then bed the piece of wood in vinyl/milled fibers and put 2 layers of glass over the wood. Does that sound like a good plan?

If there is a crack....get more than one layer over it. Now is the time. Your wide open and clean. I would build out 4 layers over the damage. Then re-skin the center if you want.

There are some real glassin experts on here. I hope they chime in.

I don't know if there is a crack. Its not obvious. In the front area it looks like erosion from repeated beaching but water was dripping slowly about 3 feet from the transom right at the keel. There is a piece of 2 inch really light cloth tape covering an area about 3 feet long. Your probably right in that I should add more. I do plan on adding 2 layers from the outside all the way front to back using epoxy. Would 2 layers inside and 2 outside be good? I've read some of the threads about cracks in this spot. I actually just almost bought a 2002 angler 20 footer with a crack in the keel for $1500 knowing I could fix it but I just don't have the space or time for it.

Good luck

I think you should investigate the leak and make sure you know what you're dealing with. If it's a screw hole that didn't get patched correctly, that's one thing. If it's a crack that goes entirely through the keel, that's a whole different animal. If it's a through-crack, you want to grind most of the way through the laminate and then build it back to the original thickness. If it's a crack, you'll probably be able to see it as a dark line once you grind through the surface of the laminate.

thehermit is right. Now's the time to do it. Make sure you know what you've got, and don't put a bandaid on it that you'll regret later.
Dave

Take a load off your weary feet. Lay on your back and grind out the weepy spot on your keel ;). Grind off bottom paint and gel coat to see if you have glass damage in that spot.

That sounds like good advice. I had planned to grind the whole keel anyway and lay some glass on it so perhaps I should do it before I attack the inside. I did already grind the inside before I laid that piece of glass and did not notice anything major but perhaps the underside will tell more. I have to grind off that old repair anyway. I will do so and report back with pictures. Any damage to the keel will get repaired with epoxy for a worry free repair. Im using vinyl ester everywhere else but I think the keel is worthy of the strongest materials possible. Even though this boat will never see seas over a foot while in my care. Lol.

Put a teak steering pod on the back and it will free up a lot of space..that would make a nice console. I built my own console from scratch. Good luck and keeps the pics coming

Vinylester is epoxy. And the low viscosity stuff you have- Vipel F010 (right??) will likely get in a crack as well as or better than a thick epoxy (like what you get from West System). Everything I can find shows BETTER mechanicals than something like West System- strength and elongation. Different hardener systems, but both epoxies. So I'd be comfortable with what you have, personally.

For the keel- yeah, fix it now. Lots of layers, getting progressively wider. I have some biax and DBM left over if you want to try something different. And I think some kevlar woven roving. That might be interesting on the outer layer. It will take you a week to cut it. :D

With respect to the white looking glass: Maybe you got bad/ no sizing on the glass, or it got dirty/oily or a silicone on it?

vinylester
 

vinylester is about as far away from epoxy as you are from Mars.

Epoxy is not in anyway in the "ester" family.

Epoxies come in many forms. The aliphatic amine ones that most people here know, I know there are aromatics and more. But the data sheet for the product in question is clear- it is an epoxy. Specifically a DGEBA epoxy with styrene. West system is also a DGEBA epoxy. So is the stuff they line soda cans with. That is the bisphenol-A that people worry about.

I am not a polymer chemist, nor did I sleep at a holiday inn express last night. I had a few college classes on this 20 years ago. But the data sheets seem pretty clear.

Bisphenol A diglycidyl ether (commonly abbreviated BADGE or DGEBA) is a chemical compound used as constituent of epoxy resins. It is a derivative of bisphenol A that is used in epoxy resins for its cross-linking properties.[1]

Many standard epoxies are based on a formula containing diglycidyl ethers, including BADGE.[2] Epoxy resins are crosslinked using hardeners (curing agents). The most common curing agents for epoxy resins are polyamines, aminoamides and phenolic compounds.[3]

BADGE is listed as an IARC Group 3 carcinogen, meaning it is "not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans".[4] From the 1990s onward, concern has been raised over this possible carcinogenicity because BADGE is also used in epoxy resins in the lining of some tin cans for foodstuffs, and unreacted BADGE may end up in the contents of those cans.[1]

DARN; you can't even drink a Diet Coke :eek:

The kevlar is an interesting idea! I think this project is going to wait until spring. I don't have a heated work space so weather is crucial. With the cold weather I just dont want to roll the dice. I also don't have enough resin to complete the job in one lamination so I think it's best to wait until spring and I'll get another pail and go at it. I may do some templates for the deck over the next few weeks, and maybe start on the mold for the transom boxes/cap but I think fabrication is done for the year.

So its getting to be time to order a fuel tank for this boat. Looks like I have a few options. Poly, aluminum, or stainless. Which one would be best suited for an under deck application? I do not plan to have an access hatch. Im planning on installing it and putting the deck on top with an access for the fill/sender etc. I know if I ever need to replace it that I have to cut the deck up but I'm not afraid of that. Any thoughts?

Plastic can't corrode. Metal can. You can look at my tank if you are interested- it isn't in yet.

One more thing with plastic. You are supposed to put a foam pad (neoprene?) between it and the structure surrounding it. Ostensibly for expansion, but I expect for surface irregularities, too. I plan on foam wrapping mine and 2 part urethane foaming in place. Haven't done it yet.

That makes a lot of sense. I really like the idea of foaming in a tank because we all know how well that stuff sticks to EVERYTHING (except most plastics) and i feel with a good cradle and some foam poured around it that the tank is quite secure. Since foaming in an aluminum tank leads to its early demise then a plastic tank just seems logical.

It's been a while so I figured Id post some updates. I did go with a plastic tank and did NOT foam it in, per Moeller's instructions. They said that foaming it in would not allow for expansion and would void the warranty. This tank had 8 screw bosses in the top that I used to secure the tank with in addition to some stainless straps that I had made by a friend. I left a .5" gap all around and used neoprene foam in between the straps and tank and also a .5" pad underneath it. It's quite secure.

I'm a little farther along than I have pictures of. When I put it to bed for winter I had glassed in all of the deck. I used 2 layers of some 24oz cloth I got for cheap. It looks just like 1708 but MUCH thicker. All vinyl ester resin. The underside of the deck has one layer of this cloth on it.

To secure the deck to the stringers I used a billion tubes of 5200 and stainless deck screws. Once the deck was secure I hole sawed some small holes and poured foam into the two outer stringer bays and portions of the inner ones. The outer bays will be SEALED with no protrusions (screws, etc) so there should be no chance of water intrusion to the foam. In the inner bays, since water intrusion is possible, I covered a piece of 3/4" pex tube in mold release before I poured in the foam and pulled it out after to leave a channel at the lowest point so hopefully gravity will help me out if water does seep in.

By pouring the foam in after the deck is in, it is able to completely fill the cavity and also gives extra adhesion of the whole assembly. Anyone who has tried to pull foamed parts apart will understand. I did this on my other boat and it worked great. You just have to be sure not to do too much at once or there is a real risk of popping the deck from the pressure.

Once the foam was in I then did my two layers of glass over the entire thing, sealing the foam holes and all the screws. I feel bad for whoever tries to get this deck off some day.

On to the pictures!

Nice work! How's the itch? You haven't been taking advantage of el nino and glassing in January, have you? Also, how did you like the styrene monomer?

Nah. I haven't glassed since the fall. I took down the "boathouse" and put the hull in storage. The styrene worked great. Really helped saturate the ply but this resin is so thin it does a decent job by itself. Looking forward to good weather to get back at it. Because of where I put the hole for the fuel tank stuff I've pretty much locked myself in to building my own console. If what I have in my head turns into fiberglass it should be a sweet console.

I think I win the award for slowest build but there is progress! I made a new fish box and I have to say it came out aces. Made a male mold. Sprayed with gelcoat and glassed the heck out of it. Also added some divinycell coring in certain areas. I believe it to be much larger than the original although I cannot say since I never had it. It will not drain overboard and will have a drain to the bilge. It will basically be for dry storage when traveling to the island house. Groceries etc. On to the pics. I'm very happy with it. The dark stuff is some of the mold that came with it. I suspect it will come off with some effort (I pva'd the crap out of it) but even if it doesn't, it wont be seen anyway. For size reference, the inside width at the widest point is 48".

Some shots of the mold. On top of the table saw you really get a feel for how big it is.

Nice work on the mold. The new fish box looks great.

Still making progress. This year I got an enormous tent garage to work in so hopefully I can get more done. I ran air and power to it too. Its almost like a real workshop. Its long enough for the 20 with a motor and trailer with some room to spare. It's wide enough to put the 20 with the cap next to it and still have room to work.

I do need to get more pics but here is one of the mold I'm making for the front raised deck. I had a friend CNC me some hatch/gutter molds in 1-1/8" mdf. The pic shows me sealing up the edges before using clay on the corners and then spraying it with pva. I think I may vacuum bag this. I have all the stuff so I cant see why not. Seems like a good part to experiment on and I think it would help a lot in the gutters.

I thought about putting speakers on the rear facing part of this mold, in which case I would glass in some recesses but I think I've decided not to. My reasoning was that if I take on some water then it is an easy way for it to get into the bilge at a very low deck height. Just bust right through the speaker. Perhaps its overkill but the way I'm planning this is that I'd have to have 6" of water on the deck before it could get to bilge. Is that stupid? I figured it would take one heck of a swamping before I had to start pumping water. Or a heck of a rainstorm with clogged scuppers. I am planning some aggressive scuppers I think too.

Well. Turns out I'm not as good at vacuum bagging as I thought. I think the 90 bend is what screwed me. Couldn't stop the leaks and I lost it. It just kept pulling up at the corners. Kicked before it could pull enough vac. Not sure it ever would have. Lesson learned. When it comes to vac bag, keep it simple. Looks like I have some mold clean up to do,followed by a few hours with a brush and some rollers glassing this by hand.

This was much better. It didn't even take that long. I'm certain it's a bit rich on the resin, but it came out well and is pretty light. I used 1 layer of matt, 2 layers of 1708, 3/4" H80 Divinycell and then 2 layers of 1708. I used vinyl ester resin. There is still some cleanup to do as far as the molding clay and some PVA but I'm very pleased with the outcome. Now I just have to trim it to size and glass it in.

Do you guys think there is still enough flex in the hull that I need to put the cap back on before I glass this in? The whole floor right up to the step is already completely glassed in and I did that with the cap on. I cant imagine there is much ability to flex with the floor in place but I certainly dont want any distortion. I am dying to get this piece glassed in though.

Very nice work��

Thank you for the compliment. I do have more than a few little surface air bubbles to deal with. I probably could have done a better job of cleaning the mold after the failed vac bag attempt. I'm thinking I might take the sand blaster to this to handle those. Got it all trimmed and set in place. It is starting to look like a boat again!